Advice on Pre Power Amps with Klipsch RP -8000F

[Vivek Batra]

Hi

I recently bought Denon x4500H with Klipsch RP-8000F and R-115 SW Subwoofer mainly for 2 channel application. I know most of the people here would disagree with this choice so is myself. I am not very happy with the sound of the system over all. My observation from the system is as below.

1. Tweeters overpowers mid range
2. At lower volume towers become very flat (-35db to -30 db)
3. Instruments separation is not very great.
4. Sounds seems clipped or feels under powered.
5. Sub woofer is quite good so no complains on that part

Not sure if its the Denon AVR or the Klipsch are are culprits here.

I want to invest in real good stuff for 2 channel only. My initial thoughts are going mono blocks as power amps and a matching pre amplifier. It would be nice to have sub outputs in pre amp.

Could you please suggest me any good pre and power amps that would go well with Klipsch ? I am open to replace the speakers as well with more musical speakers with good instrument as well as channel separation.

My Room size is 12*24
Listening position from the system 10 Feet.
Budget 8 Lacs
Looking to buy brand new stuff

Thanks

 

[mshifi]

Denon 4500 is a good receiver. You need to tweak it a bit to get the best results. The source quality also is important. 2 channel integrated or pre power always better for music. Check out brands such as parasound, exposure, creek audio, AP etc. You need to have a listen before buying

 

[Vivek Batra]

Denon 4500 is a good receiver. You need to tweak it a bit to get the best results. The source quality also is important. 2 channel integrated or pre power always better for music. Check out brands such as parasound, exposure, creek audio, AP etc. You need to have a listen before buying

Thanks for the reply. I tried what is possible with Denon like Audyssey on off etc. Yea listening before buying is must

 

[arunkvivek]

Do you see this dip in quality only in certain modes of music/ movie presets? Can you check the audessey setting?

 

[prateekatasniya]

Hi

I recently bought Denon x4500H with Klipsch RP-8000F and R-115 SW Subwoofer mainly for 2 channel application. I know most of the people here would disagree with this choice so is myself. I am not very happy with the sound of the system over all. My observation from the system is as below.

1. Tweeters overpowers mid range
2. At lower volume towers become very flat (-35db to -30 db)
3. Instruments separation is not very great.
4. Sounds seems clipped or feels under powered.
5. Sub woofer is quite good so no complains on that part

Not sure if its the Denon AVR or the Klipsch are are culprits here.

I want to invest in real good stuff for 2 channel only. My initial thoughts are going mono blocks as power amps and a matching pre amplifier. It would be nice to have sub outputs in pre amp.

Could you please suggest me any good pre and power amps that would go well with Klipsch ? I am open to replace the speakers as well with more musical speakers with good instrument as well as channel separation.

My Room size is 12*24
Listening position from the system 10 Feet.
Budget 8 Lacs
Looking to buy brand new stuff

Thanks

Can you share images of your room? Seeing the acoustics of the room will help identify the problem.
And an av receiver rarely matches the sounds quality of a good amplifier.

 

[tuff]

98db sensitivity on speakers. Denon should easily drive them. You probably need to have some absorbers/diffusers in the room to tame those high's.
A stereo amp will be better than an AVR, but your source, DAC whatever connections in between needs to be looked at too before you plop more cash. Also try it in direct mode and see what it sounds like. Also what kind of music do you listen to? Some more info can be helpful to see what can be done.

 

[arunkvivek]

I recently faced a similar scenario when fiddling with audio preset. Not sure what was screwed up but I lost all the dynamic range and thump of music. I have Fostex FR horns which are 95+ db sensitive (similar to Klipsch) and did not need power to get dynamic. I ended up recaliberating the AVR during weekend and the normalcy was restored. Audessey's room correction is good. But, what I felt was that Marantz was not listenable below 40 (I use 0-98 units for volume control and not the classic db reference). The desired SPL is not reached until I push it to 45+ for my room space.

Denon + Klipsch is combo that Pro-Fx promotes. No successful company would sell combos if they are not good match. You might want to take a relook at everything - speaker position, AVR presets, performance in pure direct mode, first reflection point treatment before spending any further money. There are many class A/ Class AB solutions available at fraction of your budget. But, no amount of money will solve the primary problems of speaker placement & room mode.

 

[newlash09]

Hi vivek...

The klipsch are very effecient speakers.. So amplification is certainly not a issue here.. So no point spending on external amplification in my opinion..

1. Did you hear this combo before buying, and was it sounding different. If yes. Then your room or your audyssey setup is a problem. Most probably the roon in my opinion..

2. If you bought the speaker blind without a listen , then they are probably the wrong speakers for your listening taste. And a change here might be in order.

3. The issue of brightness is also room related and can be tamed. But depends on how amenable your family is to have absorbers at first reflection points, even if they look like nicely framed paintings.

4. There are fat sounding speakers and lean sounding speakers. The klipsch come into the lean department like my pmc speakers. They are built for speed, which the klipsch need as they are designed to suit head banging rock for the USA market. Looks more like a wrong speakers decision to me. But I could be wrong..

 

[newlash09]

Hi again vivek..

Referring to your point no.3 - instrument separation is not very good - looks like a room issue again..probably too many reflections in a undamped room. Can you please post some pics of your room. If it is indeed your room, then the solution to your issue will be very different and cheaper than you think

 

[prateekatasniya]

98db sensitivity on speakers. Denon should easily drive them. You probably need to have some absorbers/diffusers in the room to tame those high's.
A stereo amp will be better than an AVR, but your source, DAC whatever connections in between needs to be looked at too before you plop more cash. Also try it in direct mode and see what it sounds like. Also what kind of music do you listen to? Some more info can be helpful to see what can be done.

High sensitivity speakers means low distortion needed from amplifier.

 

[Vivek Batra]

Hi Guys

First of all thanks every one for helping me out. I will try to answers everyone's comments here for the sake of convenience to all the members who pooled in.

1. Did I had a Demo before Purchase: Yes, I demoed the RP 8000F with Denon X3500H. My belief was if this can sound acceptable to me, then X4500H would surely do. Although the demo room was not as big as mine may be not even half the size and also with 7 feet high ceiling. In my case its 10 feet. I went back to the store again and its sounds better there may be the room size, but no acoustic treatment was there.

2. Source: My main source is Spotify Premium through Spotify Connect in the Denon AVRso no wireless/wired connections once Spotify is running. I know people would not like this. I tried a Audio CD (played in Laptop and HDMI connection to AVR) and played the same song on CD and Spotify, I didn't feel any difference.

3. Audyssey : Normally I keep it on, by turning it off there is a clarity loss. Dynamic EQ is ON, Dynamic Volume is set to Off. Turning off the Audyssey completely would make the sound less lean.

4. What do I Listen: My main goal was old hindi songs and Jagjit Singh Ghazals, With oldies the sound is totally crap (could be a source issues as well bit not sure). With Rock, Jazz Pop its better. The other singers Like Jim Reeves, Kenny Rogers,Lobo and other Country songs its almost flat. Mettalica would be too noisy.

5. My Listening level: Normally I do not surpass -30 DB but even at -20 db its not too loud to listen.

6. At times I feel the speakers are struggling (not sure if this is the right word) to produce sound as its not very CRISP. I would differentiate crisp and lean/thin sound.

7. My room Size (LxWxH) 18x12x10 (in Feets). Layout attached

8. Listening Position: Couch facing the system.

9. Cable Lengths: 6 Meters for each right and Left (14 gauge), 15 Meters Sub Cable. Because the setup was different at first it sounded crap. Its the best Layout from all the previous 2 I tried.

10. Dips: Not sure if I can identify.

11. I will try not to be vague here in terms of my expectations, I am expecting a very crisp sound at low volume levels (-35 db to -30 db max) with all dynamics in there. I could be totally imaginative here but somewhere inside me I feel its not what I would love to listen to for all kind of genres.

12. Please excuse me if the pics are too small, as the limit is I guess 1 MB I had to resize the pics to be allowed for upload.

Thanks all for devoting your time and helping me out to reach a level of satisfaction and could be saving me from spending more money.

 

[arunkvivek]

Hi Guys

First of all thanks every one for helping me out. I will try to answers everyone's comments here for the sake of convenience to all the members who pooled in.

1. Did I had a Demo before Purchase: Yes, I demoed the RP 8000F with Denon X3500H. My belief was if this can sound acceptable to me, then X4500H would surely do. Although the demo room was not as big as mine may be not even half the size and also with 7 feet high ceiling. In my case its 10 feet. I went back to the store again and its sounds better there may be the room size, but no acoustic treatment was there.

2. Source: My main source is Spotify Premium through Spotify Connect in the Denon AVRso no wireless/wired connections once Spotify is running. I know people would not like this. I tried a Audio CD (played in Laptop and HDMI connection to AVR) and played the same song on CD and Spotify, I didn't feel any difference.

3. Audyssey : Normally I keep it on, by turning it off there is a clarity loss. Dynamic EQ is ON, Dynamic Volume is set to Off. Turning off the Audyssey completely would make the sound less lean.

4. What do I Listen: My main goal was old hindi songs and Jagjit Singh Ghazals, With oldies the sound is totally crap (could be a source issues as well bit not sure). With Rock, Jazz Pop its better. The other singers Like Jim Reeves, Kenny Rogers,Lobo and other Country songs its almost flat. Mettalica would be too noisy.

5. My Listening level: Normally I do not surpass -30 DB but even at -20 db its not too loud to listen.

6. At times I feel the speakers are struggling (not sure if this is the right word) to produce sound as its not very CRISP. I would differentiate crisp and lean/thin sound.

7. My room Size (LxWxH) 18x12x10 (in Feets). Layout attached

8. Listening Position: Couch facing the system.

9. Cable Lengths: 6 Meters for each right and Left (14 gauge), 15 Meters Sub Cable. Because the setup was different at first it sounded crap. Its the best Layout from all the previous 2 I tried.

10. Dips: Not sure if I can identify.

11. I will try not to be vague here in terms of my expectations, I am expecting a very crisp sound at low volume levels (-35 db to -30 db max) with all dynamics in there. I could be totally imaginative here but somewhere inside me I feel its not what I would love to listen to for all kind of genres.

12. Please excuse me if the pics are too small, as the limit is I guess 1 MB I had to resize the pics to be allowed for upload.

Thanks all for devoting your time and helping me out to reach a level of satisfaction and could be saving me from spending more money.

This explains everything! Speaker and furniture placement will resolve most of the issues

 

[arunkvivek]

Speakers need space around them to work.. just moving out glass center table and toeing out the speakers should improve the clarity.
There are may more things to be done. But this would be a good start. I would also push the speakers away from each other by a feet. They are too close.

 

[Vivek Batra]

This explains everything! Speaker and furniture placement will resolve most of the issues

Well, initially the system was on the left hand side wall (18 feet). IMO at the present location it sounds better.

 

[mshifi]

try moving the speakers to the corner. Try increasing the channel levels and bass and treble levels. Bookshelf speaker on stands would have sufficed since you are using a sub.

 

[Vivek Batra]

Another thing I forgot to mention, I am using bare cable connections at both the ends. I think banana plugs wont make much difference except ease of connection.

 

[arunkvivek]

Well, initially the system was on the left hand side wall (18 feet). IMO at the present location it sounds better.

18 feet wall would be better but the biggest issue that I see is that the side couches are intruding into the sound space. The couches are set properly for ppl meeting but too close to speakers. They would create reflection issues.

 

[Vivek Batra]

18 feet wall would be better but the biggest issue that I see is that the side couches are intruding into the sound space. The couches are set properly for ppl meeting but too close to speakers. They would create reflection issues.

You are right. But unfortunately no other room/space for me to move.

 

[edjamesx]

Hi

I recently bought Denon x4500H with Klipsch RP-8000F and R-115 SW Subwoofer mainly for 2 channel application. I know most of the people here would disagree with this choice so is myself. I am not very happy with the sound of the system over all. My observation from the system is as below.

1. Tweeters overpowers mid range
2. At lower volume towers become very flat (-35db to -30 db)
3. Instruments separation is not very great.
4. Sounds seems clipped or feels under powered.
5. Sub woofer is quite good so no complains on that part

Not sure if its the Denon AVR or the Klipsch are are culprits here.

I want to invest in real good stuff for 2 channel only. My initial thoughts are going mono blocks as power amps and a matching pre amplifier. It would be nice to have sub outputs in pre amp.

Could you please suggest me any good pre and power amps that would go well with Klipsch ? I am open to replace the speakers as well with more musical speakers with good instrument as well as channel separation.

My Room size is 12*24
Listening position from the system 10 Feet.
Budget 8 Lacs
Looking to buy brand new stuff

Thanks

Both speakers & amplifier are good selection. Looks like some calibration issus.

Are you using default audissy EQ setup in av receiver ?. Try adjusting the settings manually and check whether it improves...

Did you adjust frequency response of the speakers and tried ?. Keep between 60hz to 80hz .

Set the size of speaker to small , Adjust Speaker distance settings according to your listening position.

Use the equalizer settings to reduce terrible - have balanced tone

I would also recommend moving the tower speakers little away from each other (keep atleast 5-6 feet gap), and move the sub out from center and keep it 2-3 feet away from corner.

 

[Naturelover]

1. Just for testing, remove the centre table and the side couches. Pull out the speakers from the wall and increase the distance between them. Test with and without the sub.
2. Is the dealer local? Will he let you have a home demo? Try with bookshelves if that is possible. They can be placed wider and their drivers will be clear of the side couches.
3. Are your speaker cables 6 metres or 6 feet in length? 6 metres is way too long.