AMD Fusion APU

[sCythE roXx]

Thanks, Vivek!

Yep, that is a handy little keyboard, isn't it? I've now really got the hang of it (both the trackball and the keyboard parts) and can zip through tasks pretty well.

Question to hydra & Vivek

I was looking for a remote for HTPC. Lenovo remote looks great but there are several bad reviews, especially on range.

After looking around a bit on cheaper & good options: I stumbled upon this: Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: Logitech Wireless Touch Keyboard K400 with Built-In Multi-Touch Touchpad (920-003070)

This has got awesome reviews especially around size & features.
This is listed on ebay for about 2k: LOGITECH WIRELESS TOUCH KEYBOARD K400 WITH TOUCH PAD | eBay

What do you say?

PS: BTW was thinking of back lighting, then found this: http://cgi.ebay.in/LED-Book-Light-r...8?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_203&hash=item3a6a8b9ea2 Cheap & Good option in a dark room

 

[hydra]

^^ I have no issues with range right upto 18ft (the length of my room). I have the receiver plugged into one of the USB ports in the front of the cabinet. I think most of the folks out there having issues with range have plugged it into one of the USB ports in the rear of their cabinets.

Other than lack of backlighting, there is one more gripe I have with the Lenovo KB. The Lenovo KB does not have function keys. These keys are really not needed on a daily basis, but it is a hassle to plug in a full size USB Keyboard when you need to configure/move around the BIOS.

But for regular use, I like it very much. It is very handy and can be used very much like any other remote. It has the regular multimedia keys (Vol up/Vol down/Mute/Stop/Play-Pause/FF/RW etc) which are quite handy, esp. for my application. I don't think the Logitech KB you've mentioned in your post has all those multimedia keys.

That said, the Logitech KB does look quite good. It seems to be smaller than regular KBs, but I wish they had put a picture of it with a CD jewel case or something on the Logitech website, to judge size. The keyboard-side will be much more useful on the Logitech. But then we don't really need to use the keyboard that much in a HTPC application, do we?

With the Logitech, it might also be easier to drag files/folders around with a single hand (if it can do the doubleclick-hold-drag action); The Lenovo's trackball and button placement are not really conducive to click-drag actions. But then, with two hands it can be managed.

EDIT: Just watched an unboxing video of the Logitech KB. It is small enough, but still a little too big for my personal taste (about the size of a 11" Netbook KB, with the trackpad put alongside). It is very slim, though. If you're ok with the size and the lack of play/pause/stop buttons, it looks like a good enough buy

 

[sCythE roXx]

This picture kind of shows the size on the lap of a guy:

Looks small. Yes, does not have all multimedia keys but the trackpad is supposed to be multi-touch. Deltapage has it listed at 1890 but out of stock

 

[hydra]

I got delivery of my Asus E35M1-M board today.

The MSI distributor (Accro Engg. Co. Ltd) could not replace the MSI E350IA-E45, and they gave me a refund through theitdepot. I bought the Asus board with part of the refund and had a bit extra left over, heh, heh.

I'll be setting it up tonight. This is the first time I'm setting up a motherboard, so I hope things will go well. I'd "disconnected" and removed the MSI board from the cabinet myself, so I guess I can set up this board afresh without issues. The problem with my Silverstone cabinet is that everything needs to be dismantled and taken out before the motherboard can be installed. I sure hope I don't have parts left over after I put the PC back together

The passion for music is sure teaching me a lot of unrelated stuff!

 

[sCythE roXx]

I got delivery of my Asus E35M1-M board today.

The MSI distributor (Accro Engg. Co. Ltd) could not replace the MSI E350IA-E45, and they gave me a refund through theitdepot. I bought the Asus board with part of the refund and had a bit extra left over, heh, heh.

I'll be setting it up tonight. This is the first time I'm setting up a motherboard, so I hope things will go well. I'd "disconnected" and removed the MSI board from the cabinet myself, so I guess I can set up this board afresh without issues. The problem with my Silverstone cabinet is that everything needs to be dismantled and taken out before the motherboard can be installed. I sure hope I don't have parts left over after I put the PC back together

The passion for music is sure teaching me a lot of unrelated stuff!

Awesome. Its one's passion that takes a man forth and do newer and incredible things.

BTW after lot of thought, I have opted for going the HTPC route (my second one, should now have around 4+tb of data running in house ) and then later on HTIB (really hoping some nice diwali deal at Reliance or elsewhere and then grab a hts3400).

I had an old SFF cabinet with 200w PSU lying with me. So just bought Asus E35M1-M (6.4), Corsair Value (1.25) and Seagate LP 2TB (3.95) from deltapage. They seemed to offer lower rates than SMC International. This was almost costing to me equal to a media player with 2tb hdd, but I could use multimedia speakers for now and also browse the web. May grab the logitech k400 down the line.

The cabinet's front panel has minor scratches so I was thinking that I will perhaps take it to a car shop and get Radium stickering done on it that will make it glow in the dark or maybe paint some glow myself on that. Would be a new thing. The Sentry 2 fan on primeabgb looks like a nice option to decorate front panel.

Will post how it goes. You too share your experience hydra with Asus board.

Both HTPC in my house now will be using AMD proc and Asus board Let's see which one performs better.

 

[hydra]

Thanks, @scythe! All the best for your HTPC project!

I got the PC setup. It happened without any problems. Whew!

Some pics:








One of the cabinet fans is just a few cms away from the CPU. The PC has been on for a bit more than an hour now (Win 7 install, basic config, Foobar install & config, playing music, 15 minutes of a 720p video) and the CPU temp is only 46deg C.

Time to enjoy some music!

 

[hydra]

^^ I think the not-being-able-to-get-into-BIOS-on-HDMI problem was with the mini-ITX versions of the Asus Boards (E35M1 Deluxe and E35M1). The Deluxe never made it to India officially (I think), and the E35M1 seems to have been discontinued.

In any case, I will check if I'm having this problem with my uATX board (E35M1-M) tonight. I used a VGA monitor to setup the PC and then started using it with my TV, so I did not have the opportunity to check this issue yesterday.

The BIOS is UEFI: I found it convenient as my the Lenovo Remote/KB I'm using does not have function keys. With the UEFI, I don't have to switch to a full size USB keyboard to open the BIOS, or to move around in it, or to save the settings & exit, at least in the "basic" interface. It will be a pity if I can't get into the BIOS while the PC is connected to the TV via HDMI

 

[manniraj]

Mr.Rosh:

one major problem in the board is when hooked to HDMI display, you cant enter into bios. to go into bios you need to boot from VGA display.....

I have similar problem with my gigabyte 880gm usb3 mobo which when connected with onboard hdmi does not show the BIOS screen. I need to connect the vga port to my tv to get into the BIOS settings. I believe many of the integrated hdmi graphics in the mobo have this problem and that asus is not the only company.

 

[sCythE roXx]

I believe many of the integrated hdmi graphics in the mobo have this problem and that asus is not the only company.

Don't know if this a relief to ASUS owners or a general problem that everyone should be worrying about. I compared all products on Asus. The E35M1-I have AMI Bios while E35M1-M have UEFI. Maybe the problem is on former boards which are mini boards. The deluxe is also on same model. I will check that when my board arrives and post on the forum my experience. (BTW the ASUS board is now 6.4k and Deltapage is giving me 100 as store credit )

I have ordered some more additional things to help me setup my HTPC. Wanted to add some nice UV lighting effects but it's too hard to buy circuitry online in India......will figure if glow in dark does not work.

BTW people with Lenovo or other non backlit remotes, I guess you can also try the LED booklights or maybe glow in the dark paints.

The official paints are kind of costly going at about 1k for 200ml. However a small pack is available from Pogo, check below. Maybe put that paint on important keys so that they can glow in dark, especially the play/pause keys

Pogo Glow In Dark Puffy Paints . Buy Best Pogo Glow In Dark Puffy Paints at Lowest Price Online

 

[hydra]

I have similar problem with my gigabyte 880gm usb3 mobo which when connected with onboard hdmi does not show the BIOS screen. I need to connect the vga port to my tv to get into the BIOS settings. I believe many of the integrated hdmi graphics in the mobo have this problem and that asus is not the only company.

I think some of it has to do with the implementation: The MSI E350IA-E45 (AMD E350 Fusion) that I was using till about a month back had no issues with displaying the BIOS screen while connected to the TV via HDMI.

 

[gobble]

My 880GM USB3 works with hdmi - I access BIOS and change settings with no problems.


--G0bble

 

[reignofchaos]

I think some of it has to do with the implementation: The MSI E350IA-E45 (AMD E350 Fusion) that I was using till about a month back had no issues with displaying the BIOS screen while connected to the TV via HDMI.

Actually the MSI doesn't have a bios - its UEFI in text mode which looks like a bios. Maybe that is why it works.

I've not had any trouble with it over hdmi.

 

[hydra]

^^ Didn't know that about the MSI board!

I can confirm that the Asus E35M1-M has no issues at all with displaying the BIOS (UEFI) interface over HDMI. It works fine in my setup.

The CPU temperature is also very normal even without a CPU fan. I've been using the PC for nearly 4 hours now, the last 2 hours watching a 720p MKV file. The CPU temp is just 42 degrees C.

These 2 issues were bothering me a bit. It is a big relief to see that all is well

 

[hydra]

The Lenovo c5901 KB/Trackball combo has been updated. More here:

http://www.hifivision.com/home-theater-pc-htpc-media-pc/15258-htpc-remote-control-2.html#post290486

 

[sCythE roXx]

Did not update back as I was busy experimenting and fine tuning the system. So here is what I have done (for now):

Original Requirement: HTPC/Digi Media Player with Analog Speakers

RIG:
Ordered ASUS E35M1-M, Corsair 4GB Value RAM, Seagate 2TB Green HDD from DeltaPage (costing Rs 6400, Rs 1250 and Rs 3900 respectively).
Fitted this into a pre-existing Zebronics SFF with 200W PSU. (15x14x5.5 inches)

Accesories:
Purchased decent quality 3 Stereo to RCA cables from Ebay (Rs 350 for all). The branded ones are about 400 each so skipped as once I upgrade I will move to HDMI HT directly.
Purchased Logitech K400 from ebay.in for Rs 2000

PROS:
- The best thing out of all is that the Logitech K400 simply rocks (yes, I am listing the KB first). It stands out as the neat piece in entire invetory. Very compact, gets detected at bios level itself. Trackpad is good and very light to hold. One can operate it with one hand if you have to press limited keys. Not having backlighting did not effect me as I use it in living room.

- I installed xbmc and switched it as primary shell using EventGhost. Base OS is Windows Vista SP2 (I have Windows 7 in my other HTPC - but not big difference between the two). The processor was able to play 1080p videos. Hit some issues in entire setup - in process of fixing them. Will cover them in Issues section below.

- I could use my analog speakers easily and very effective. The entire setup costed less than 15000 but I am very happy with it as I can do lot more than just a media player. I get to fully customize it using my personal pictures as backgrounds for xbmc. Screensavers/Slideshow with music). Ablility to sync files using SyncToy and LiveMesh between my PCs etc etc

Cons
- Multiple cons. First one is CPU heating. I chose a cabinet with little air flow and no fans. Currently the cabinet has no fans and the cpu heats upto 68 degrees which sometimes causes stutter in videos/audio. It does not happen all the time. As the chasis fan can be only 60mm based on slot I have, I cant find one online easily. So I may go with Evercool PCI fan for some ventilation (costs 319 bucks on bwindia). ItDepot seems to be out of Silverstone aero cool slots. I used them in my other HTPC and they are pretty good.

- The next problem was codecs. While xbmc can play most files it could not play all. So one has to reseach a lot on installing and configuring codecs. The best bet is to just install K-Lite mega pack. This coupled with above problem had me puzzled on stutter issues. Most of stutters are gone away now but occasional codecs are still missing. I am facing this as I am trying to use xbmc as a single experience. I am pretty sure that if I use VLC or Smplayer or HomeCinema I should be able to play anything (maybe I will it out sono to see how they perform for the files that don't play in xbmc).

- Despite configuring everything to use hardware I am seeing both cores being used at 90% plus. I guess its because everything is part of same mobo so the CPU is highly used by xbmc shell and it also has to process audio signals and convert to analog.

Issues
- To reduce the boot up time I though of going the Ubuntu or xbmc live (ubuntu) path. After doing all the stuff, I had a hard realization that Linux is not good for AMD/ATI combo. I could not even scroll through the menu. Stick with Linux if you have nVidia. I had to remove everything and trust me Grub2 was the biggest pain to be removed. I used my repair CD several times to no avail. Finally re-installed Linux with Grub, booted into windows, used EasyBCD and got my system back. After this I chose the xbmc as a shell route and I can get into xbmc within a minute or so from boot up.

- My old PSU only had 20 pins while this Mobo needs 24. Old PSU still works and is able to pull this mobo and hdd, dont know how good it will be in longer run.

- The inability to find a good ventilated cabinet which can host a micro atx of 9x7 inch inside it and can fit in 14x14x5 is hard. Cooler Master Elite 100 cannot host mixro with 3.5" HDD (let me know if it does). IBall baby 306 is okay option but not that great. Antec 150 cabinet is very deep and long. CFI cube is not known to host micro atx. All in all the only option is Zebronics Nick which I am not currently much interested in. So, people looking at Fusion board and want a HTPC setup in small box should get mini version only and perhaps 2.5" HDD.

- The realtek folks have screwed up big time when it comes to SpeakerFill. The best option there was to use channel mixer add on in foobar2000, using 3D Sound back from realtek (although it messes with output a little). I also tweaked some of ffdshow settings to attain that. I am able to play stereo sounds in 5.1 now.

I am still debating with myself if I should get a PCI sound card of creative which could off load some of audio processing from the CPU and make system more stable and maybe solve the stereo to 5.1 problem in better way.

This has been my experience so far with option I have chosen. My next item on list would be HTS3400 a few months down the line.

Comments/Suggestions/Questions - Welcome

 

[reignofchaos]

Since you want a single painless solution, try potplayer - plays everything with hardware acceleration out of the box.

If you are planning to get that onkyo, buying a soundcard is useless since you'd be bitstreaming over hdmi anyway.

 

[hydra]

@scythe good to know your build is over!

- About the PSU, this is what Asus recommends in Page 1-16 of the motherboard's manual:

For a fully configured system, we recommend that you use a power supply unit (PSU) that complies with ATX 12v specification 2.0 (or later version) and provides a minimum power of 350w

They also say:

We recommend that you use a PSU with higher power output when configuring a system with more power-consuming devices. The system may become unstable or may not boot up if the power is inadequate

I think you might need to upgrade to a 350w PSU when you are able to. (Also because of the Pin issue. I personally don't know how much that matters, but if the motherboard needs 24 slots...)

- I don't think the CPU should heat up that much. Even after 8-9 straight hours of music and movies yesterday (ahhhh, Sundays) the CPU temp in my setup was just 46 degrees C. And yesterday was a wicked hot day here (at Kochi standards), with the max temp at 35 degree C.

- I think the CPU temperature is related to the high CPU usage with XBMC. I don't use XBMC, so I don't know what is the normal CPU usage while using XBMC, but 90% plus sounds pretty high.

- Did you try the setup with an open cabinet? That would be an easy way of finding out if the heating issue is related to the cabinet or not.

 

[sCythE roXx]

Thanks for your comments and suggestions folks. I will definitely give potplayer a go.

I checked online on xbmc, and found the info below which explains the load on the processor. I guess thats why xbox and other gaming systems need high cooling.

I will try what you guys suggested, open cabinet and maybe just vanila windows with a media player.

When I booted up I saw 46 degrees in bios which looks ok given that there is zero ventilation inside or outside the cabinet.

On the PSU part, I read at multiple places that last 4 pins are pretty much useless. For now the PSU looked sufficient will slowly upgrade stuff again when I hit issues

Why does XBMC use x% CPU usage while sitting idle?

XBMC was originally written for the XBox game console, which is a single-threaded system (not a multi-tasking OS like Windows). As such, it was written in a game loop, rather than being event-driven. This means that the screen refreshes as fast as possible in order to "feel" responsive to the user. What this boils down to is that while sitting on the idle screen, XBMC is still repainting the screen at 60-90 frames per second (as can be seen by the FPS number if debug mode is enabled). This takes up a lot of processor power, because the "game" is still running, even though you may not be doing anything with it.

There are currently no intentions to change this, as it is a very low-level change of the entire XBMC platform. A few workarounds do exist though:

Enable the "blank" screensaver. This puts XBMC into a low FPS mode which uses much fewer resources.
Set an Idle timeout. In the PM3-HD skin, under Settings > System > Hardware there is the option to enable a "Shutdown function timer" and a "Shutdown function". The timer only counts down when media is not playing (it's not based on mouse movement like a typical screensaver). Setting the timer to something like 5 minutes, and the function to "Quit" will quit XBMC if no media has played for 5 minutes. It is also easy to use EventGhost or a similar application to register a remote button (or an Un-Idle event) to re-start XBMC.
Disable vertical blank sync in the System/Video Output directory. Alternatively, set vertical blank sync to "Enabled during video playback."

So I guess you have to pay a little price for the extra experience.

 

[sCythE roXx]

Okay so I played around with some of the suggestions given and other things.

Opening the cabinet and placing under ceiling fan kept the temperature within 50-55 even with xbmc running a 1080p 10GB file. Which would mean that I need to sort out the ventilation thing. I also noticed that my PSU throws air into cabinet which would mean that hot air must be getting accumulated.
I think aero cool slots (200 bucks), a pci fan (300 bucks), a ram cooling plate(200) and scythe 40mm chasis fan (300) should circulate enough air out and keep thing cool. All these components are available on bwindia and lynx-india.

About some codecs not playing well etc, it was DXVA messing up. After I disabled it, things worked fine. So I may have to switch the setting every now and then.

Will order some cooling stuff and see how it goes. Any other creative and economical ideas on cooling the pc silently?

 

[abbis]

I would be setting up an HTPC for music (not for movies,right now) with the Gigabyte e350n-usb3 motherboard.Want to connect it to my amp. How to do it?
Pls help.