Amp upgrade with Canton speakers: Feasibility study
- Thread starter Asit
- Start date
harbeth and Audionote are Lossy speakers ie ther cabinets are meant to reonate instead of being inert..thats how the whole speaker is designed.
Hence the requirement for a different stand.
most other speakers need a very rigid base.do check on what your Canton likes better. also lossy speakers prefer a coupling to its base
Last edited:
Hi arj,
Based on the pictures of the Skylan stands in the 6moons review of the Leben cs600, and also the pictures of the stands referred to by cranky, I don't see anything in those stands to resonate there. Do you mean the legs to be hollow and therefore acting as closed resonating air columns?
Regards
Based on the pictures of the Skylan stands in the 6moons review of the Leben cs600, and also the pictures of the stands referred to by cranky, I don't see anything in those stands to resonate there. Do you mean the legs to be hollow and therefore acting as closed resonating air columns?
Regards
asit ji
for isolaters you can also use the vibrapod and vibracones ( though they are generally used only for amps and CDPs ive seen them)
they could be used for speakers too.
how thick is the wooden shlf on which your speaker is palced
if its solid teak(which i doubt since shelves are rarely made of that) and less than 12 mm thick or if its even 20mm plywood i would ofer a suggestion that may seem wierd but ive tried it
" put a 12mm glass on the shelf and then place the speaker on that"
you can also use an isolater between the speaker and glass"
for isolaters you can also use the vibrapod and vibracones ( though they are generally used only for amps and CDPs ive seen them)
they could be used for speakers too.
how thick is the wooden shlf on which your speaker is palced
if its solid teak(which i doubt since shelves are rarely made of that) and less than 12 mm thick or if its even 20mm plywood i would ofer a suggestion that may seem wierd but ive tried it
" put a 12mm glass on the shelf and then place the speaker on that"
you can also use an isolater between the speaker and glass"
hi asit,
From what I understood these speakers prefer open frames as they dissipate/transmit vibrations better unlike the more solid stands whose purpose is to damp out vibrations. appreantly sand filled stands do not work with them.
coupling vs decoupling in speakers works in different ways for different speakers. in fact some speakers work better with a Helmholtz resonator built into the stands ! but these are speacial cases. in an ideal scenario you would only want the stand to transmit/damp out vibrations.
not really wellversed with the physics behind a ball bearing support, but logically when a speaker cone moves back and forth, it displaces air, and, would result in the whole speaker cabinet moving back and forth. so there is some to and fro movement of the speaker..i feel it mqkes sense to stop that movement rather than let it happen.
Last edited:
Hi Ali and Arj,
Thanks for your comments and suggestions. Sorry to be late in responding. Thanks to all your help, I think something is ultimately taking shape.
Yesterday afternoon Cranky and one of his audiophile friends came to our home to check out my system. This is the first time I met him, and wow! what enthusiasm. Immediately after climbing up 6 floors (because our lift developed some problem just before they arrived), they removed the metal grilles and took a look at the speakers. They were apparently quite pleased by the look. Cranky even cleaned up some remaining dust. Then they wanted to listen to the system. I do not have A/C in my listening area, because it is a relatively large area and also is continuously linked to other areas and corridors etc and I do not know of any reasonably priced A/C solution without putting partitions (which I do not want to do). They initially asked me to turn off the fans and wanted to have a listen.
It was approx a 2 hour session. With all kinds of music thrown in. Cranky brought 2 CDs from his collection including selected tracks from Clapton, Dylan, and Coal Train from Masakela. These had superb reference quality recording. I also played a bit from my collection, including cassettes. They were apparently quite impressed with the quality of cassette recordings I had.
My impression was that overall they were quite pleased with my system. They mentioned many times that the speakers are in fine condition and would last me another decade. They also mentioned that these 20 year old speakers sounded very modern.
Needless to say they liked the looks of the Leben, and when it was put to use for music, they enjoyed it immensely and commented that it sounded like a very well built solid state amp.
They commented that the speakers were very slightly forward sounding but not in an offensive way.
They were not quite happy with deep bass and bass in general, as far as I understood. They said it is there in my system, but to bring it out perfectly I have to get the speakers out of the cabinet holes and put them on proper stands with some air around. Actually this issue did not come up in a big way with my previous HK amp because it did not have as much bass as the Leben, had a leaner sound (as I commented a few times before).
After observing that my speaker boxes were made of very high quality solid wood, Cranky and his friend have suggested some special kinds of stands that I think I can get them made. The basic idea (as far as I understood) is to have many joints and boundaries on the column and the horizontal pieces made of two pieces sandwiched so that isolation and damping take place. They wanted to put more emphasis on this aspect than the rigidity aspect for the stands. This is different from his previous suggestion along the lines of stands made for Harbeth speakers (that was before he saw and heard my speakers). I'll post more on these stands as they take more concrete shape.
I like to thank Cranky and his friend for coming over, taking time diligently to listen to my system and offer suggestion. Both of them are very simple and genuine people and true music-lovers (technical knowledge part I do not have say, that part everybody knows by now). I feel privileged to come across such people.
Regards.
Thanks for your comments and suggestions. Sorry to be late in responding. Thanks to all your help, I think something is ultimately taking shape.
Yesterday afternoon Cranky and one of his audiophile friends came to our home to check out my system. This is the first time I met him, and wow! what enthusiasm. Immediately after climbing up 6 floors (because our lift developed some problem just before they arrived), they removed the metal grilles and took a look at the speakers. They were apparently quite pleased by the look. Cranky even cleaned up some remaining dust. Then they wanted to listen to the system. I do not have A/C in my listening area, because it is a relatively large area and also is continuously linked to other areas and corridors etc and I do not know of any reasonably priced A/C solution without putting partitions (which I do not want to do). They initially asked me to turn off the fans and wanted to have a listen.
It was approx a 2 hour session. With all kinds of music thrown in. Cranky brought 2 CDs from his collection including selected tracks from Clapton, Dylan, and Coal Train from Masakela. These had superb reference quality recording. I also played a bit from my collection, including cassettes. They were apparently quite impressed with the quality of cassette recordings I had.
My impression was that overall they were quite pleased with my system. They mentioned many times that the speakers are in fine condition and would last me another decade. They also mentioned that these 20 year old speakers sounded very modern.
Needless to say they liked the looks of the Leben, and when it was put to use for music, they enjoyed it immensely and commented that it sounded like a very well built solid state amp.
They commented that the speakers were very slightly forward sounding but not in an offensive way.
They were not quite happy with deep bass and bass in general, as far as I understood. They said it is there in my system, but to bring it out perfectly I have to get the speakers out of the cabinet holes and put them on proper stands with some air around. Actually this issue did not come up in a big way with my previous HK amp because it did not have as much bass as the Leben, had a leaner sound (as I commented a few times before).
After observing that my speaker boxes were made of very high quality solid wood, Cranky and his friend have suggested some special kinds of stands that I think I can get them made. The basic idea (as far as I understood) is to have many joints and boundaries on the column and the horizontal pieces made of two pieces sandwiched so that isolation and damping take place. They wanted to put more emphasis on this aspect than the rigidity aspect for the stands. This is different from his previous suggestion along the lines of stands made for Harbeth speakers (that was before he saw and heard my speakers). I'll post more on these stands as they take more concrete shape.
I like to thank Cranky and his friend for coming over, taking time diligently to listen to my system and offer suggestion. Both of them are very simple and genuine people and true music-lovers (technical knowledge part I do not have say, that part everybody knows by now). I feel privileged to come across such people.
Regards.
Hi Asit, this would be interesting. I think Sonus faber does have a combination of metal +Wood stand bonded together.
The suggestion seems excellent ..the implementation would need some care though. Would be interested in knowing how the wood could be bonded together. would normal Fevicol kind of a glue be good enough ?
Was thinking of making wooden shelf along the above lines to place below my amp..hence will be following any of your research/experience on the above with interest !
arj,
What we suggested (purely by intuition, and the experiment will be done on Asit's time and money)
Smart Move
But how will you marry the stem of the stand with the Glass base ? the only way i can think of is the hole with a Bolt arrangement ..would that be stable for the size of the speaker Asit has ?
Smart Move
But how will you marry the stem of the stand with the Glass base ? the only way i can think of is the hole with a Bolt arrangement ..would that be stable for the size of the speaker Asit has ?
I had the same question to Cranky and his friend, and Cranky had an immediate answer, but I cannot remember it now (probably because I hate discussion on nuts and bolts, but I see now that they are quite useful. Thanks to whoever invented them.). Probably his answer was along the lines what you are suggesting above. His draft picture on a piece of paper at our place shows, I think, 3 small circles on the base. Could those be the holes for the bolts?
The stem has to be thick and and the whole thing has to be heavy to carry my 17 kg/piece speakers. Stem wall would not have regular shape, rather it would have irregular protrusions to avoid coherent radiation of sound waves from them. Cranky was recommending an average stem-thickness of at least 7 inches or so. Once in the US, as I have mentioned a couple of times before, I had these speakers on very light MDF speaker stands (on carpet flooring, and without spikes, as much as I can remember) and the sound was awful, it lacked body and definition.
anm
Well-Known Member
must be for spikes.
Hi folks,
Here is an update (everytime, in the first draft I write a 'brief update', then it ends up big, and at the end have to remove the word 'brief').
I think the cables are fully burnt in now. I have approx 100 hours on the Audio Art (AA) IC-3 which at the moment connects my CDP and the amp. In the last couple of weeks after Cranky's visit, things were rather quiet, and then suddenly last weekend (friday evening to be exact), there was another quantum leap in the performance. Since according to reports the amp was broken in long ago, the only thing responsible for this change supposedly is the final (hopefully) break-in phase of the AA IC-3. It's an overall improvement, but some specifics can also be pointed out. Firstly, the bass performance (which Cranky was not fully happy with) has improved, it has become more timely and tighter (that is, more well-defined than before). Details have improved (I did not think it was possible around the time Cranky visited us). I have proof of it with track no 4 of the music track of the movie Sathiya (music AR Rahman) which was verified by my wife (who mostly thinks I am of the crazy sort, but agreed with me this time, and even called my son for further verification). However, with more details, the musicality has improved too in terms of tonal quality, vocals have more body now.
As I have already pointed out before, this AA IC-3 cable break-in is something incredible. I have not tried my hands at 'very' expensive cables so far, but I have tried a few in my time, and I do believe they break in. But never in my wildest imagination, I could have predicted this kind of wild phases with the AA IC-3. But at the end of the day, it IS a wonderfully detailed and very very accomplished IC, and a real VFM. I have so far not done any rigorous comparisons, but when I find a bit of time, or when Cranky visits us next time, I like to do that with at least the VDH I am using at the moment to connect the cassette player.
I was reading a bit about this AA IC-3 on the net and I found that the company (which follows a direct-order marketing policy) charges a few dollars extra for a factory break-in of the IC-3. That way customers do not have go through such a long process. In my case, although this process had a few frustrating phases (especially around the 50 hour mark, as I have mentioned before), it was quite interesting for me to witness the whole process.
They have another interconnect called the IC-1 which is fully copper and takes a very modest break in.
Anybody who is a non-believer in IC break-in should try this AA IC-3 out of the box and be patient for 100 hours of listening with it in the chain and report back.
BTW, for some 'serious bass' out of my speakers (which I am told is all there, just waiting to come out with better placement of speakers), the project on the stands is well on its way. In a matter of few weeks, they may be ready. So hang on everybody
.
Here is an update (everytime, in the first draft I write a 'brief update', then it ends up big, and at the end have to remove the word 'brief').
I think the cables are fully burnt in now. I have approx 100 hours on the Audio Art (AA) IC-3 which at the moment connects my CDP and the amp. In the last couple of weeks after Cranky's visit, things were rather quiet, and then suddenly last weekend (friday evening to be exact), there was another quantum leap in the performance. Since according to reports the amp was broken in long ago, the only thing responsible for this change supposedly is the final (hopefully) break-in phase of the AA IC-3. It's an overall improvement, but some specifics can also be pointed out. Firstly, the bass performance (which Cranky was not fully happy with) has improved, it has become more timely and tighter (that is, more well-defined than before). Details have improved (I did not think it was possible around the time Cranky visited us). I have proof of it with track no 4 of the music track of the movie Sathiya (music AR Rahman) which was verified by my wife (who mostly thinks I am of the crazy sort, but agreed with me this time, and even called my son for further verification). However, with more details, the musicality has improved too in terms of tonal quality, vocals have more body now.
As I have already pointed out before, this AA IC-3 cable break-in is something incredible. I have not tried my hands at 'very' expensive cables so far, but I have tried a few in my time, and I do believe they break in. But never in my wildest imagination, I could have predicted this kind of wild phases with the AA IC-3. But at the end of the day, it IS a wonderfully detailed and very very accomplished IC, and a real VFM. I have so far not done any rigorous comparisons, but when I find a bit of time, or when Cranky visits us next time, I like to do that with at least the VDH I am using at the moment to connect the cassette player.
I was reading a bit about this AA IC-3 on the net and I found that the company (which follows a direct-order marketing policy) charges a few dollars extra for a factory break-in of the IC-3. That way customers do not have go through such a long process. In my case, although this process had a few frustrating phases (especially around the 50 hour mark, as I have mentioned before), it was quite interesting for me to witness the whole process.
They have another interconnect called the IC-1 which is fully copper and takes a very modest break in.
Anybody who is a non-believer in IC break-in should try this AA IC-3 out of the box and be patient for 100 hours of listening with it in the chain and report back.
BTW, for some 'serious bass' out of my speakers (which I am told is all there, just waiting to come out with better placement of speakers), the project on the stands is well on its way. In a matter of few weeks, they may be ready. So hang on everybody
.Hi arj and suri,
I suppose the work has advanced pretty far. I know about two weeks ago the material was all chosen for the column and french fry type cuts were all made which would then be all glued together to make the central column. Before that Cranky and his friend dropped the idea of the glass sandwich for the two plates. I think the sandwich will now be made of metal with something in between. The whole last week and this weekend I was quite busy with all kinds of stuff. I was thinking of actually visiting Cranky's place to hear his stuff and also see the developments on the stands. But did not find the time.
Meanwhile, with Cranky's help I was able to get hold of an used Nakamichi RX-505 cassette deck which has its own thread. I am yet to take a picture of it. It is one of the classic ones from Nakamichi and features the almost exotic Uni Directional Auto Reverse (UDAR) whereby the cassette compartment comes out a little from the normal position and the cassette is rotated by 180 degrees by itself to play the other side. The Leben has accepted this change most gleefully and my cassettes (many of them with high quality recordings) are now finding that magical touch.
Cranky, would you give us an update on the stands, for people on the forum? Also, despite all the purchases you have already made, you have not yet recovered any costs from me. I am going to call you tomorrow. It's too late now.
Regards.
I suppose the work has advanced pretty far. I know about two weeks ago the material was all chosen for the column and french fry type cuts were all made which would then be all glued together to make the central column. Before that Cranky and his friend dropped the idea of the glass sandwich for the two plates. I think the sandwich will now be made of metal with something in between. The whole last week and this weekend I was quite busy with all kinds of stuff. I was thinking of actually visiting Cranky's place to hear his stuff and also see the developments on the stands. But did not find the time.
Meanwhile, with Cranky's help I was able to get hold of an used Nakamichi RX-505 cassette deck which has its own thread. I am yet to take a picture of it. It is one of the classic ones from Nakamichi and features the almost exotic Uni Directional Auto Reverse (UDAR) whereby the cassette compartment comes out a little from the normal position and the cassette is rotated by 180 degrees by itself to play the other side. The Leben has accepted this change most gleefully and my cassettes (many of them with high quality recordings) are now finding that magical touch.
Cranky, would you give us an update on the stands, for people on the forum? Also, despite all the purchases you have already made, you have not yet recovered any costs from me. I am going to call you tomorrow. It's too late now.
Regards.
Cranky,
Aah sorry to hear but 1 question. These ushers are almost new and definately in warranty so why will usher not replace tweeters for free? I have fried a few tweeters and have had no problem (generally) getting replacements.
Rgds
Aah sorry to hear but 1 question. These ushers are almost new and definately in warranty so why will usher not replace tweeters for free? I have fried a few tweeters and have had no problem (generally) getting replacements.
Rgds
My condolences...but on a lighter side i cannot but help imagining Mr Usher wagging his finger, and admonishing with a " Youve been a Naughty Boy ":lol:
Last edited:
Hi Cranky,
Very very sorry to hear about Arup's wife's illness. For forum members who do not know who Arup is, he is the audiophile friend of Cranky whom we mentioned a few times before. My sincerest wishes for her to get well soon.
Also, sad (however, at a completely different level) to hear about the tweeters.
It's a bad time for you then.
Wishing everybody all the best and Regards.
Very very sorry to hear about Arup's wife's illness. For forum members who do not know who Arup is, he is the audiophile friend of Cranky whom we mentioned a few times before. My sincerest wishes for her to get well soon.
Also, sad (however, at a completely different level) to hear about the tweeters.
It's a bad time for you then.
Wishing everybody all the best and Regards.
A beautiful, well-constructed speaker with class-leading soundstage, imaging and bass that is fast, deep, and precise.
Similar threads
