Audio Lounge - London

Hi
I think affordability of high end audio is generally the same all over the world,even in the developed west since its buyers are essentially hobbyists.
Very few,anywhere in the world , would go for mega buck 2 channel systems without any interest in good sound and just to show off .Not so with cars and watches I suppose.Not also with home theaters since cinema is a more popular medium.
Its the dealers I guess , who have to take the lead in educating interested hobbyists of 2 channel audio (especially the well heeled ones) and its heartening to note that their tribe is increasing reasonably in this country.
Cheers
 
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Let me try and ask a question;

When did any of you FM's see any person spend 10/-K Pounds on a 2 channel system being purchased from India - Through an Indian D & D ?

Basically what I need to know, do any of us know a friend on a 1st name basis that has spent Rs. 10/- Lacs on a 2 channel audio set up that was purchased from Indian shores ?

I cannot recollect any name - except my own & I could enlist 12 persons on a 1st name that I know that have purchased 1 watch that cost 10/- + Lacs & 20 persons I know that have spent 35/- + Lacs on a car.

My point being, money gets spent in India.
However, none of it gets spend on Audio [2 channel specially]

p.s. Actually someone I know, just purchased an Octave Jubilee Pre Amplifier - 1 week back & that was sourced from an Indian D & D - BTW that pre is listed @ 26/-K Euro [so that 10 Lac criteria was met - but just 1 purchase comes to mind]

6moons audio reviews: Octave Jubilee Linestage

High Fidelity

OCTAVE Audio
 
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=716125251746536&set=o.162444570612786&type=1

Saw on FB - Showroom just opened in Hyderabad - yesterday i.e.

https://www.facebook.com/john.bucha...58988399829.1073741825.100000472036588&type=1

Now, this store has opened - therefore the D & D has made the effort.
The quest is how many Indians will actually purchase a 2 channel system from there ?

This is a British Brand that has opened a store in a tier 2 city in India.
Obviously they [the Brand - Meridian in this case] see the potential for sale of their products in Hyderabad.

Just like Cadence sees the potential for the sale of its products in London - as stated at the beginning of this thread - I guess time will tell how each store performs...
 
When did any of you FM's see any person spend 10/-K Pounds on a 2 channel system being purchased from India ... ?

Actually, I'm not sure that I know anybody anywhere, outside of this forum, who has spent that much money on hifi.

The only possible exception might possibly be the father of a friend of mine, back in 1972, who ran a recording studio in his house who, apart from the amazing recording equipment (including a disc-cutting lathe :) ) had a splendid Quad pre/power setup with Tannoy speakers. I didn't know enough about anything at the time to have any idea what it was worth, and I suppose I still don't know --- but, here was a guy who was professionally and personally seriously into sound.

(and one of his sons still has the Quad amps, refurbished, to this very day)
 
People have money. What lacks is exposure. Exposure to (reproduction of) quality music. That is possible only through D&Ds and forums/ communities like this, I believe. I am happy that hi-fi exhibitions are catching up. I wish in every major city, such events are organized. Ofcourse people should show interest, otherwise such shows too will see the end of the road soon.
 
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=716125251746536&set=o.162444570612786&type=1

Saw on FB - Showroom just opened in Hyderabad - yesterday i.e.

Now, this store has opened - therefore the D & D has made the effort.
The quest is how many Indians will actually purchase a 2 channel system from there ?

This is a British Brand that has opened a store in a tier 2 city in India.
Obviously they [the Brand - Meridian in this case] see the potential for sale of their products in Hyderabad.

Thanks for the headsup Bhagwan! I just happened to read about Meridian last week. Great to see a top notch brand at our doorstep.
 
Thanks for the headsup Bhagwan! I just happened to read about Meridian last week. Great to see a top notch brand at our doorstep.

I used to use their CD Player - long time back - 808.2i
It is a good brand.
The Showroom opened in Hyderabad.
You should have gone for the opening; If Audio guys do not go - who will ?
They [audio lovers = music lovers] are the potential clients & hence they should go first to explore the options - just my suggestion...
TAS 194: Meridian 808.2 Reference Signature CD Player | The Absolute Sound
This was my machine - in Black.
 
The Showroom opened in Hyderabad.
You should have gone for the opening; If Audio guys do not go - who will ?

It was a by invitation only event - visited their facebook page and left a comment on there. Hopefully will be added to their mailing list.


You "upgraded" from this some time back??!!!! *mind blown*
Or wait ... was it the move to computer based audio that prompted the move?
 
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People have money. What lacks is exposure. Exposure to (reproduction of) quality music. That is possible only through D&Ds and forums/ communities like this, I believe. I am happy that hi-fi exhibitions are catching up. I wish in every major city, such events are organized. Ofcourse people should show interest, otherwise such shows too will see the end of the road soon.

exactly..

regading fairs, i feel it should go to people and not the other way round. for eg. an audio fair in IT park and such would enchance awareness to a great extent
 
You "upgraded" from this some time back??!!!! *mind blown*

Or wait ... was it the move to computer based audio that prompted the move?

I was into CD Players from the very beginning;
Been through a few..

Simaudio Moon Eclipse CD Player [Serial Number A-211294-CD]
Electrocompaniet EMC-1 24/192 CD Player [Serial Number 01334]
Audiomeca Mephisto II CD Transport [Serial Number 2001045]
Audiomeca Enkiantus 24/192 DAC [Serial Number 2001073]
Metronome T1A MK II Transport + UP Sampler
Metronome C1A MK III Tube 24/192 DAC
Metronome Technologies - T-1i CD Player [Serial Number 02041]
Wadia 861-B CD Player [Serial # 086 130 0343]
Mimetism 20.1 CD Player [Serial # L6-129]
Cary Audio CD 306 SACD Professional [Serial # 08306PV6044 - Black]
Meridian 808i.2 Signature Reference CD Player [Serial # 808-200379]
Bow Technologies ZZ Eight - 2008 Version - V8 [Serial # 1528] - Signature [BT]
Weiss Minerva - 1394 Firewire DAC - Black [Serial # 1118]
Digital Audio Denmark DAD DAC AX24 [Serial Number AX24-00193]
dCS Scarlatti Upsampler [Serial Number SUP6429 Reference Number DA5021A]
dCS Scarlatti DAC [Serial Number SDC6817 Referance Number DA5021C]
dCS Scarlatti Master Clock [Serial Number SCK7074 Referance Number DA5156A]
Ayon Audio Skylla Tube DAC Austria Serial Number 9000172
The Gryphon Adagio CD Player [Serial # 0401111]
Camelot Technology Merlin Pro CD Transport [Serial # 301209]
Camelot Technology Dragon 5.1 Plus Jitter Reducer [Serial # 103584]
Camelot Technology Uther D/A Convertor v2 Mk5 [Serial # 501202]

But,
Now, Computer it is for me - has been for the past 4 years.
I am very happy.
No turning back.
 
Bhagwan - curious - what is your current setup?

Rather 'simple'

2 Comps - Locally made
1 DAC - DAD [AX-24] - Denmark
1 Allnic Pre [S Korea]
2 Cadence Canasya's [Mono - India]
Tidal Amea Diacera - TAD [Germany] - Book Shelf Speaker
Cables = Mix of Bertram / Silencable / Echole / Bocchino etc. etc.


I have 'watered' down - pulled out / need to save some money - audio was a bit 'over-exposed' for me.
Still have gear for sale...
:cool:
 
dear panditji and others,

i am not the type who reads or follows such web sites not because of any particular reason but just because i don't have the time to read or write on them. however as i was browsing for something else, i found this thread about panditji feeling "sad" about me and "who made his money in india" sets up a retail shop in recession hit uk....etc etc.

truth is bitter but has to be told.for me cadence is not just passion but something for which i have now dedicated 25 years of my life and continue to do so.

coming to the various comments i have to set the record straight.

india is a very strange and difficult market for high end audio to grow let alone flourish in the medium term.

there are various reason in my opinion for that. apart from you audiophiles there is very little understanding of what high quality audio is,what joy it can provide and what it truly means. more so in this age of instant gratification what with downloads,rip rap and the other.therefore market segments and categories get blurred. i am sure many of you will remember the days when the opel was launched in india as a premium luxury car!

second cadence never made any money in india in all its years of existence and that is when after about 16 years of working in india we took the decision to grow through acquisitions with out global partners. it is only then that the business really has seen the light of viability.

india as a market is also fraught with a lot of other issues peculiar to this market. first the high import taxes and duties and other local taxes. but that is something the government has decided as a policy, so there is very little that anyone can do much about,let alone a micro industry like high end audio.

then of course the lack of a well established trade and trade channels. point me to 5 dealers who will invest in product and gear and a proper place to afford the intending buyer to experience the products in a proper environment and i will open the 5 spendor dealerships tomorrow..again a proper dealer who will put his commitment behind the product both financial and support wise.

then we have the proverbial issue of the indian buyer and his obsession with discounts!

or, of course there is always the option for many who have friends/relatives/wellwishers living abroad and they can always bring in stuff during their next vists to india for their beloveds, neatly packed in their suitcases and exit through the green channel!

and then, of course if we do find someone who is immune to these issues he or she in most cases, when the time does come to put one's hand to the wallet will always ask the question...."can i pay in cash.....so i will at least save the vat and entry tax"

the global high end audio business and i speak of high end,where a typical system price i consider to be of the order of 5 lacs of rupees or above, is growing only at the rate of 1 to 2 percent annually,closer to one than 2.

within that 1 to two percent growth, lost somewhere is the indian market.

25 years of presence and trying to tap it in every which way has made us wiser that for the moment at least it is a waste of effort and energy given the returns it provides.so those who still want a cadence family product will find their way to us, and we try to do our very best for them.

this may sound arrogant but believe me it is not. it is a summation of someone who has been in this business for almost a quarter of a century now.

so given the peculiarities and very different circumstances that we find we are unfit to cope with, and run a fair and ethical business, we chose to do it our way.

finally the only thing that to my mind is sad is that instead of being happy that cadence is the only indian company that encompasses research,development,production,and now retail spanning three continents with four production facilities,and owns historic brands that have been around for over 4 decades and more at the top,panditji is sad!

sincerely,

ajay shirke
 
Dear Sir, thanks for clarifying but the points you mentioned are things we have been lamenting on the forum since long...Also please do not get me wrong but I was sad that even you do not have faith in the Indian market because of all the reasons you have mentioned above with which we all would agree....Maybe I did not put it correctly but it is the sad state of affairs of the Indian dealers as well as consumers which is demoralising...

Anyway, I had a great interaction with you that day and I wish you all the luck....
 
dear panditji, i am pleased that you have taken my message in the right spirit. the only way panditji is for the general public to get more aware about good audio. we were insulated from hifi in the old days of licence permit for so long that the only thing that grew was pmpo and smuggling!and, of course some furniture makers who also said their furniture plays music.it will take a very long time,and the deterrents like import taxes and local taxes are far too much of an impediment for anyone to look at this market,which can have potential,but in my opinion for the moment just is not worth the effort given the returns. another thing that your lovely forum and members should try and do i think is make more opportunities for people to listen to live music and by that i mean sans pa systems as the general impression with the masses even in these times is that loud is equal to good.
the audiophile segment of the market is stagnant and they cannot really drive growth.the average man has to drive that and if we look at the kind of the systems that have gained some momentum like the 30 to 100k systems with the marantz,sony,et al, and if we were to date our market in terms of its ripeness or maturity across the large population, in global terms, we are around the 1960's, when put against the rest of the world.so a good half a century behind! none of the specialised companies can afford a big bucks ad campaign and as such a large responsibility will be left on people like you to spread the good word,which as you know will take a lot of time. anyway i am watching and when the time is ripe.....who knows we may open five audio lounge outfits across india!

cheers great weekend and happy listening,

ajay.
 
Respectful Sir [A.S.] & Forum Members,
We are almost back to the chicken & egg part of things - what came first.
Should the Indian D & D make the effort or should the Indian Hi-Fi Enthusiast take the first step;;;
There is no answer & no perfect solution.
I am of the opinion - D & D's should open shop - demo rooms in different cities & Indian Audio persons should visit those show rooms - listen & if a product is liked - buy only in India.
No Singapore / HK etc.
If both the persons make the effort - the market can improve.
Import Duty is @ 30 % & VAT is @ 12.5 % [cumulative is about 45 %] - High - I do accept.
However, UK & Europe is @ 20 % VAT - so we are only double. Not less, I accept - but it can be paid. Specially for Low Fi & Mid Fi Products - under 5 lacs i.e.
I am 100 % in favour of buying from India & supporting the Indian D & D.
I have personally always purchased audio gear in India from Indian D & D's unless a product is not sold in India.:cool:
 
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