Boycott Chinese goods - Is it possible

Neeraj0272 said:
first of all most of the measures you have suggested have already been used by India since our independence culminating in the catastrophic events of 1990 when our gold had to be mortgaged. Though admittedly these measures haven't been targeted against a particular country. So your suggestions of general measures won't work especially as more and more of the global trade is getting internationalized. In effect it will put India on backfoot if we adopt restrictive trade policies.
Now if were to take specific measures against China then two points come to my mind:
1. there will be some financial implications i.e Indian consumer will pay a little more for products which in the grand scheme shouldn't matter much. Or maybe we would be altogether deprived of some products. But this is just minor inconvenience on the alter of nationalism!
2. But i think this is a slippery slope and vested interests will start clamoring for protectionism in the disguise of make in India, swadeshi etc.
What i feel is that we shouldn't take half measures against China where we are selective in taking actions against Chinese businesses. What message does it give? Are we at war with China? Is China our enemy? If yes then why this selective approach? Why are BBK Electronics Corporation and other Chinese companies selling their phones but some Chinese app are banned? Can't these phone manufacturers steal data of Indian customers? This is the premise US is using against huawei!
And the symbolism of banning some businesses wont work against China which due to its land size, population size and economic size will retain her eminence in International arena.
We all know that it is Trump in US who is making noises against China for the sake of his reelection. After the US elections it will be business as usual.
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I am not entirely sure which points you are referring to. The economic crisis of 1991 was due to Balance of Payment Crisis which was due to
Soviet Union split into 15 nations. Exports suffered as they were the primary buyers.
Gulf war and 1990 oil price shock.
Some incompetent leaders and scams
Huge customs duty which was eventually reduced after Narasimha Rao took over.
Import Licensing
Production licensing etc.

Eventually a new leadership relaxed a bunch of these laws and macroeconomic stabilization policies which helped the economy to sustain.
The emphasis here is reducing dependency on China. As i mentioned earlier banning is impossible as per WTO rules and
not viable.
JSW group has already stated that they will stop annual imports from China which is around USD 400 million in the next 24 months.
West Bengal Trade association has stated that India will take a couple of years to manufacture goods as a substitute for Chinese items but they want an alternate supply source,
1. I agree that any measures taken will have a financial implication.
2. I don.t see anything bad about make in India or Swadeshi. We are loosing handicrafts.
3. We cannot just ban companies from any country cause we do not like it unless there is a valid reason like data theft, privacy issues, environmental issues. I have not used any of the apps that were banned but seeing some tiktok videos , i don't think it was bad lol.

We are not at war with China and neither are they our enemy currently, but India cannot be dependent on China and simultaneously have border tiffs with them.
What US did with Huwaei could just be a master stroke. Worlds 2nd largest smartphone maker blacklisted , lost ties with major companies. It is not in a very good position. Similarly if India can stop Huwaei from entering the 5G network in India, it is a big step.
Let China retain its international presence , but we must reduce dependency on them.

On a lighter note hopefully we see more Japanese , European, US brands here . 0 duties , let it be charged to Chinese brands :D
 
We should not boycott chinese goods if there aren’t better options at similar price points. Why should we stifle competition when globalisation is the need for the hour, not just commercially but ideologically as well, especially when everyone (well, most world leaders) is indulged in a non stop barrage of rhetoric promoting bigotry, divisiveness and xenophobia. No good is going to come out of boycotting chinese goods or festering ill will against it. If boycott of chinese goods is required in view of chinese aggression, India can very well do it under Article XXI of the GATT (security exceptions). This is a decision to be taken by OUR elected Representatives for protecting Indias sovereign interests. We can do our part by discharging our civic duties promptly (lets just pay the taxes that are due in full and on time without trying to find every conceivable loophole to save a few bucks) and researching and informing ourselves about legitimate effective measures that can actually be taken if Chinese exports are harming Indian interests.

Rather, the focus should be on achieving competitiveness. A global supply chain ensures efficiency and is beneficial to the End consumer. We should laud china for achieving such cost competitiveness and ease of doing business as rightly pointed out by an FM in an earlier post in this thread. In india, starting a business is the stuff of nightmares. Getting permissions and clearances in India takes forever. The example of technocrat is a great example of why china is ahead. Its not pragmatic to boycott chinese goods. We should promote and reward competitiveness and leave politics to the politicians.

Case in point, out of 1097 tariff items at the 4 digit level in our Customs Tariff, India imported goods under 1068 tariff items from China which is far more than any other country. This clearly demonstrates our huge dependency on China.

i have worked closely with various chinese industries. They are incredibly sincere and extremely efficient. Plus, the govt. really supports their industries.

Now herein lies the problem. Most times, the support extends well beyond just ease of doing business such as clearances and permissions by the Chinese government. Most Chinese industries do not work on market economy principles despite having joined the World Trade Organisation in 2001. They do not operate on principles of supply and demand and there is huge state support in the form of subsidies (whether through direct payments or duty foregone etc), low interest rates, lax bankruptcy laws etc. These measures have helped them lower costs to an unnatural degree. Therefore, even the Chinese Accession protocol to the WTO allows for other countries to consider it as a non market economy. As i stated earlier, boycotting goods when there is no viable alternative in the domestic market of India only harms consumers and achieves zilch. You'll simply be moving Indias balance of trade from that of China to other countries which does not make any economic sense to my mind.

Rather, to nullify the unfair advantage that Chinese goods have, especially if they are injuring the domestic industry of similar or directly competitive products in India or are materially retarding it establishment, the Indian Industry should approach the government (Directorate General of Trade Remedies) and have anti-dumping duties (under section 9A of the Customs Tariff Act, 1975) or countervailing duties (Section 9 of the Customs Tariff Act, 1975) imposed on such goods. This will ensure that if there is a legitimate Indian Industry for these products, the chinese goods won't be able to undercut Indian prices due to the unfair advantage that they enjoy.

I would urge everybody to do some research on why Reliance Industries is such a profitable venture (and its not just that they struck gold with Jio). They are by far the largest users of anti-dumping duties, countervailing duties and even safeguard duties (8B of the Customs Tariff Act, 1975) in India. People don't hear about them mostly because Reliance gets these measures imposed on basic raw materials and chemicals which we as end consumers do not deal with directly on a regular basis, if ever, but are present in every single commodity that we use.

Therefore, if the Indian Industry of the like domestic product (may it be amplifiers, speakers, DACS , what have you) is not bothered to safeguard their interests, why should we?

On the other hand, we should make our audio industry members aware that they have multiple options at their disposal if they so wish to legitimately compete in the Indian market. Imposition of duties on Chinese Hi fi products would increase their prices and nullify the unfair advantage that they have acquired through state support or otherwise, forcing the Indian customer to seriously look at Indian Hi Fi products as a viable alternative.

If not, why shouldn't we reap the benefits of low priced Chinese products?
 
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Tuhin Lavania said:
I dont get one thing here.

Why should i not buy Chinese stuff ? Its priced lower, its well made, so why should i not buy them ? Patriotism ?

This is laughable.
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If it's better made and cheaper then I would laugh at you for not buying it. :p

As for patriotism, I like what Thomas Paine said: "The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from it's government." :)
 
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kingshuk said:
I am not entirely sure which points you are referring to. The economic crisis of 1991 was due to Balance of Payment Crisis which was due to
Soviet Union split into 15 nations. Exports suffered as they were the primary buyers.
Gulf war and 1990 oil price shock.
Some incompetent leaders and scams
Huge customs duty which was eventually reduced after Narasimha Rao took over.
Import Licensing
Production licensing etc.

Eventually a new leadership relaxed a bunch of these laws and macroeconomic stabilization policies which helped the economy to sustain.
The emphasis here is reducing dependency on China. As i mentioned earlier banning is impossible as per WTO rules and
not viable.
JSW group has already stated that they will stop annual imports from China which is around USD 400 million in the next 24 months.
West Bengal Trade association has stated that India will take a couple of years to manufacture goods as a substitute for Chinese items but they want an alternate supply source,
1. I agree that any measures taken will have a financial implication.
2. I don.t see anything bad about make in India or Swadeshi. We are loosing handicrafts.
3. We cannot just ban companies from any country cause we do not like it unless there is a valid reason like data theft, privacy issues, environmental issues. I have not used any of the apps that were banned but seeing some tiktok videos , i don't think it was bad lol.

We are not at war with China and neither are they our enemy currently, but India cannot be dependent on China and simultaneously have border tiffs with them.
What US did with Huwaei could just be a master stroke. Worlds 2nd largest smartphone maker blacklisted , lost ties with major companies. It is not in a very good position. Similarly if India can stop Huwaei from entering the 5G network in India, it is a big step.
Let China retain its international presence , but we must reduce dependency on them.

On a lighter note hopefully we see more Japanese , European, US brands here . 0 duties , let it be charged to Chinese brands :D
Click to expand...
JSW (and other steel companies) is another great example of a company using trade remedy measures to great effect to nullify the unfair advantage that Chinese companies enjoy. I also see a lot of FMs from Chennai. Companies based out of tamil nadu are also big on using trade remedy measures against China.
 
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Hari Iyer said:
There are lot of news floating around suggesting fellow citizens to boycott Chinese origin products. So i presume they also apply to AV gear.

IME, its now become very difficult to trace the origin of goods until you bought them. For instance, the Marantz BR player purchased 1.5 years ago was made in China. I last year also purchased washing machine (LG) which was manufactured in Pune and a Hitachi window AC which was also manufactured in India (as per label). But so called Indian brands like VU TV (Hi-sense) and Bluestar AC, Godrej AC (China Sourced) are directly sourced from China and had manufactured in China labels. Last week i bought a Altec Lansing Bluetooth sound box assuming that they are a US/French brand will not be manufactured in China. But after it landed it was manufactured in P.R.C.

So even if we want to avoid anything manufactured in China, unless the dealers/ distributors themselves declare the origin of the goods, it become next to impossible for consumers to boycott Chinese made goods. Even most Indian brands are re-branded and sourced from China and is not a good indicator.

Will like FMs inputs / tips for how to avoid Chinese products given the state of affairs

PS: This post is not for those who are okay with buying goods from Chinese origin and can skip this post without commenting.
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Origin of goods is a slippery slope. I would urge you to look into Free Trade Agreements that India has entered into with other countries wherein the principles of determination may differ depending on the value addition and process involved in the country of export/manufacture. A treaty regarding the origin of goods was sought to be agreed upon under the auspices of the WTO between its members but could never be finalised due to lack of consensus.

When you are using Indian made audio products or those from other countries, more often than not, they would have used some component or the other which would have been derived from China and if not the components, the raw materials that go into making these components. China is into the manufacturing and supply of every conceivable commodity unless the same is a natural resource which is not available within its political boundaries.
 
Analogous said:

An Indian manufacturer of audio products is beating its Chinese rivals by manufacturing in China​

boAt held a 37% share of the personal audio products segment in India in 2020.​


scroll.in

An Indian manufacturer of audio products is beating its Chinese rivals by manufacturing in China

boAt held a 37% share of the personal audio products segment in India in 2020.
scroll.in scroll.in
Click to expand...
We must understand at least two things from this:
1. Stop worrying about 'Made in China' tag. Our manufacturing sector simply isn't up there to compete
2. Try to support brands whose origin is based in India. Not all of them appeal to audiophiles. There are few really good ones which provide value for money, but lack reviews.
 
We Indians also need to understand our strengths ,weaknesses .
Rather than keep talking about Patriotism we need to clearly understand a few things .
1. Indians are good Entrepreneurs but not in a manufacturing related industry . Indians are good at trading business because of the perceived safety of trading vs manufacturing risk .
2. Indians are good managers ,clerks , accountants , workers not in India but when they travel to other countries . They follow laws , procedures which they will try to bypass in India .
3. Indian aspirations are different . Indians study hard to get a job . Indians do not study to learn the ways of life .
4. For Indians settling down is to find a job , get married , buy a home and die paying back the loan on house , car or bike . 99% of Indians would not take a loan while on a job to set up a business but would probably buy an apartment or a property and think of it as wealth .
5. If there is an Indian left with other than the above mindsets and wants to set up an industry to manufacture , the govt will make sure that he fails even before he has started .

India is one country where there are good amount of foreign remittances compared to most countries in Asia . We just need to export our people , find them jobs in other countries and we could still let China manufacture .
 
China imports much less but still a fair amount from India, I don't think our boycotts are going to make a difference even if it was possible.
 
In China you can start a manufacturing unit within 6 months big or small. You have the full support of of the government if you are investing. Even small entrepreneurship is welcomed and no need to grease anyone's palm. Not sure what happened to our `Make in India' Project. Is it still alive?
 
mathan said:
In China you can start a manufacturing unit within 6 months big or small. You have the full support of of the government if you are investing. Even small entrepreneurship is welcomed and no need to grease anyone's palm. Not sure what happened to our `Make in India' Project. Is it still alive?
Click to expand...
Yes it's alive. China is building military infrastructure inside Indian border.
 
yugaaa said:
We Indians also need to understand our strengths ,weaknesses .
Rather than keep talking about Patriotism we need to clearly understand a few things .
1. Indians are good Entrepreneurs but not in a manufacturing related industry . Indians are good at trading business because of the perceived safety of trading vs manufacturing risk .
2. Indians are good managers ,clerks , accountants , workers not in India but when they travel to other countries . They follow laws , procedures which they will try to bypass in India .
3. Indian aspirations are different . Indians study hard to get a job . Indians do not study to learn the ways of life .
4. For Indians settling down is to find a job , get married , buy a home and die paying back the loan on house , car or bike . 99% of Indians would not take a loan while on a job to set up a business but would probably buy an apartment or a property and think of it as wealth .
5. If there is an Indian left with other than the above mindsets and wants to set up an industry to manufacture , the govt will make sure that he fails even before he has started .

India is one country where there are good amount of foreign remittances compared to most countries in Asia . We just need to export our people , find them jobs in other countries and we could still let China manufacture .
Click to expand...
Can't agree more on your thoughts.. we're tuned to compete and excel because our neighbors' kid has achieved/will achieve everything in life by scoring good marks!

Most of us were never given a chance to explore entrepreneurship because 'what if we fail'? I think that mentality will slowly change and for the better :)
 
mathan said:
In China you can start a manufacturing unit within 6 months big or small. You have the full support of of the government if you are investing. Even small entrepreneurship is welcomed and no need to grease anyone's palm. Not sure what happened to our `Make in India' Project. Is it still alive?
Click to expand...
Not Just in China . Chinese have better source of funds for offshore projects and they are encouraged to do volume business and compete . Chinese govt is also proactive in the sense that Chinese loan money to weak , poor countries and then using that money they promise to create infrastructure in those countries like building dams , roads , railways . When the Chinese company gets the contract the next thing that they do is to flood a bunch of Chinese into those countries . I have seen Chinese working on road projects in Nigeria at 6 am in the morning . An average Nigerian worker would start work at 9 and pack up by 4 , but these Chinese workers start at 6 and work till 6 PM .

While our Indian govt is considering to sell Shipping corporation , Chinese govt has been actively concentrating on providing cheap shipping options over sea , air to its manufacturers . Chinese lines offer cheaper shipping and faster timings from Africa and Europe . Silk road , buying up ports in small countries are examples of China improving its shipping lines .

The cost difference btwn Indian and Chinese is not much on most low end products but if we calculate with shipping it is substantial for an european country . Without an active ship building industry and shipping lines Indian manufacturers cannot really survive .

The general mindset is to think China manufactures it all at a cheaper price , but what most of us do not realise is that South Korea , Taiwan , Indonesia , Thailand , Vietnam are leaders in many manufacturing industries and even the Chinese are not able to compete with them . So not all is lost for India . We just need a govt capable of understanding the dynamics of an export oriented economy .
 
yugaaa said:
We just need a govt capable of understanding the dynamics of an export oriented economy .
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It's a catch 22 situation for us. To make export viable, we have to lower the duties and dilute labor laws, but we can't do that because of many subsidies and jobs to protect.
 
OM_2K19 said:
It's a catch 22 situation for us. To make export viable, we have to lower the duties and dilute labor laws, but we can't do that because of many subsidies and jobs to protect.
Click to expand...
My gut feeling is that the govt earns more revenue straight out of imports rather than manufacture . With import duties of over 30 % for most items , the govt does not have to do anything to earn that money . TO manufacture the same product in India govt has to provide subsidies , bank loans , infrastructure etc .
 
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