Why Chi-Fi Matters And Can No longer be Used in a Pejorative Sense

[sachinchavan 15865]

What you point out is true in many modern products like PCs, magic phones and such. But in Hifi we have tech from the 1920s and 1950s like Vacuum tubes and Turntables still being produced in contemporary avataars albeit for a minuscule market. I am not entirely sure any Hifi product that gains wide acclaim was made with obsolescence in mind.

I replied to a specific post within the thread (as evident from the quote) that referred to obsolescence of electronic consumer goods as a category.

As for hi-fi, as more hi-fi products get smart (as has begun with streamers), I imagine they’d be designed for planned obsolescence as well.

 

[Analogous]

I replied to a specific post within the thread (as evident from the quote) that referred to obsolescence of electronic consumer goods as a category.

As for hi-fi, as more hi-fi products get smart (as has begun with streamers), I imagine they’d be designed for planned obsolescence as well.

I missed the context of your comment. My bad

 

[Analogous]

Came across this:

https://indianexpress.com/article/business/market/china-dominates-supply-of-electronic-components-for-made-in-india-products-9519844/

 

[muralimmreddy]

Haha....glad your goodselves asked . Xangsane makes some incredible cables as per user reviews. And as per some, one has to go very expensive with the main stream brands to beat them. Especially the silver coated or sterling silver cables from Xangsane come well recommended

They are available on aliexpress, but there are tons of fakes there. So best to buy directly from their below website :

https://www.xangsaneaudiocable.com/

these Xangsane cables are insanely good. thanks for recommending @Yelamanchili manohar

some of us in Hyderabad have been using the power cables, interconnects, USB

yesterday was trying the Xangsane sterling silver USB (approx 20k) and silver power cables (30k+) for the streamer, (yes relatively still expensive but non silver models are not that expensive), apart from clarity resolution etc, tonal changes remained me of audionote level 4 silver interconnects which i auditioned in my chain.

 

[firearm12]

Chinese equipment is bigger in size, heavier and well built to last. This first impression works for them. Then they offer good quality at fraction of price of big international brands. The performance is simply too good for price. Or we can say that 'real' brands are just ripping people off, money matters in the end and so chifi matters.

 

[arnprasad]

For Hard work and dedication yes. But for their type of growth a big NO. The growth came from 'Revolution' which killed around 30 million innocents. (Millions were persecuted directly and others died because of policies)

This is on old post and not sure if replying now makes sense. But I see some very simplistic arguments being made.

Mods: Pls delete my post if its too political or ruffles some feathers. But just thought I would put across my thoughts. I did vote for BJP and am no supporter of opposition. But I am also very well read and travelled...so some myths need to be clarified.

(a) China is what it is today not because it is authoritarian or killed 30 million but because of their forward vision, discipline and hard work. The Chinese miracle started in the 70s and 80s thanks to USA embracing China and Dengs forward looking policies...this is loooong after revolution. They got an opportunity and made full use of it and we haven't

(b) People are quick to point out that there is no democracy in China and there is no free press. How many of you feel happy looking at election results and feel proud about it (not talking about bhakts...but generally). Have you seen the status of press freedom in India? you write something against the current dispensation and next day an FIR will be filed against you.

(c) While millions did die in China...do you know how many millions died in India due to poverty? even today we are world leaders in bad indicators like kids with stunted growth, kids not going to school, educated kids who cant do basic maths..etc.

(d) Not really sure what Xi did that people are being unhappy about. He trying to make China a super power and he is well on his way to achieve his goals.

(e) Regarding China occupying our territory...etc. - again as a patriot I want us to legally own and rule everything shown in our political map - but this not an easy topic. India what we have in our political map is what the British gave us. India was never this big - not in vedic times..not under Mauryas...not under Mughals.... So what the British did was slowly nibble at others territories expanding their empire at the same time ensuring there were buffer areas between the Russians Chinese and India. Hence while we have a valid claim based on our constitution - The Chinese too have a valid claim - maybe claiming whole of south china sea is a bit too much and unfair...but when it comes to Ladakh..Arunachal...etc - this is not a black and white issue if you look at it in purely neutral terms. If you look at their history - they too have lost plenty of territory to Russians.

(f) As far as make in india is concerned - one should not cherry pick data and say we are doing great...that is like Congress saying we have established IITs and IIMs and AIIMS...etc. What we need to see are broad economic indicators like our GDP growth, our per capita growth, Share of manufacturing in our GDP...etc and in most of these parameters the current government is no better than the manmohan singh govt and in many parameters even worse. I know well educated people dont like the opposition and its ok to take that stand...but broad economic data wont lie.

(g) Some of you seem to diss China and have special love for the western world. What you do not seem to realize is that the western world is the root cause for all that is wrong in the world today. Its not China. Whatever is happening in the middle east is due to carving up of countries by the European powers and USA in the first half of 20th century and I can give you plenty of instances where USA and European powers have aided coups and revolutions just so that they can maintain their hegemony or their MNCs get lucrative deals.

End of the day I dont care if NDA rules us or UPA ...whether we are democracy or a dictatorship or something else. What I really want is that we too should progress like China did in 80s till 2010s growing at 10% per annum. Most people on this forum am sure are pretty well to do - unfortunately large parts of India isn't and it breaks my heart that even as I turned 50 this year, the progress I have seen has been very pathetic and still continues to be bad. I only hope and pray that some miracle happens soon and we too will become like China today atleast by 2050.

Now while I dont buy hifi products costing lakhs ..every now and then I am surprised that products that were made in India by well known reputed brands are today manufactured in China...few examples over the last five years

(a) I bought a standing fan from USHA - made in china
(b) I bought a standing fan from Bajaj - made in china
(c) Hell last week I bought badminton shoes costing 3500 from a brand called Hundred..which is an Indian brand over Yonex which was costing the same...when I got the shoes...made in china

Just go to dmart and see ..most unbranded items are made in china...plastics, glass items,,even clips to protect your clothes on a hanging wire is from China

Its all and good to be supportive of our establishment...but one needs to be pragmatic too.

My favorite example that I quote everywhere is this:

One well built man..on independence day..takes his bullet out to flag hoisting ceremony - he has illegally modified his silencer to create noise pollution all along the way. He jumps signals...overtakes vehicles endangering lives, spits paan everywhere on the road, parks his bike in an no parking area and finally reaches the flag hoisting place and salutes and sings the national anthem....where funnily enough..the flag pole itself is illegally built on the main road.

While its ok to salute and sing national anthem to show our patriotism...its far more important...to work hard, pay our taxes, follow rules and regulations and be a good citizen, which frankly is not the case today.

Again I do apologize as my post is not intended to hurt anybody...but somehow we seem to get carried away with jingoism a lot now a days believing we are well on our way to being a super power....reality is that we are a nobody. doesnt matter whether we are part of G20 or BRICS or QUAD...these are all timepass things. When china stopped us from joint patrolling in Depsang and thus took away hundreds of sq kms..no brics or g20 came to our rescue. Even today you read any foreign news article...whether its politics, defence, technology....its all about USA, western world and Japan and Korea and China. No one mentions India anywhere.

This article is not about being a pessimist. Just that we are so poor backward and underdeveloped ....we really need to grow very fast...10%+ GDP For 25 years.

 

[firearm12]

This is on old post and not sure if replying now makes sense. But I see some very simplistic arguments being made.

Mods: Pls delete my post if its too political or ruffles some feathers. But just thought I would put across my thoughts. I did vote for BJP and am no supporter of opposition. But I am also very well read and travelled...so some myths need to be clarified.

(a) China is what it is today not because it is authoritarian or killed 30 million but because of their forward vision, discipline and hard work. The Chinese miracle started in the 70s and 80s thanks to USA embracing China and Dengs forward looking policies...this is loooong after revolution. They got an opportunity and made full use of it and we haven't

(b) People are quick to point out that there is no democracy in China and there is no free press. How many of you feel happy looking at election results and feel proud about it (not talking about bhakts...but generally). Have you seen the status of press freedom in India? you write something against the current dispensation and next day an FIR will be filed against you.

(c) While millions did die in China...do you know how many millions died in India due to poverty? even today we are world leaders in bad indicators like kids with stunted growth, kids not going to school, educated kids who cant do basic maths..etc.

(d) Not really sure what Xi did that people are being unhappy about. He trying to make China a super power and he is well on his way to achieve his goals.

(e) Regarding China occupying our territory...etc. - again as a patriot I want us to legally own and rule everything shown in our political map - but this not an easy topic. India what we have in our political map is what the British gave us. India was never this big - not in vedic times..not under Mauryas...not under Mughals.... So what the British did was slowly nibble at others territories expanding their empire at the same time ensuring there were buffer areas between the Russians Chinese and India. Hence while we have a valid claim based on our constitution - The Chinese too have a valid claim - maybe claiming whole of south china sea is a bit too much and unfair...but when it comes to Ladakh..Arunachal...etc - this is not a black and white issue if you look at it in purely neutral terms. If you look at their history - they too have lost plenty of territory to Russians.

(f) As far as make in india is concerned - one should not cherry pick data and say we are doing great...that is like Congress saying we have established IITs and IIMs and AIIMS...etc. What we need to see are broad economic indicators like our GDP growth, our per capita growth, Share of manufacturing in our GDP...etc and in most of these parameters the current government is no better than the manmohan singh govt and in many parameters even worse. I know well educated people dont like the opposition and its ok to take that stand...but broad economic data wont lie.

(g) Some of you seem to diss China and have special love for the western world. What you do not seem to realize is that the western world is the root cause for all that is wrong in the world today. Its not China. Whatever is happening in the middle east is due to carving up of countries by the European powers and USA in the first half of 20th century and I can give you plenty of instances where USA and European powers have aided coups and revolutions just so that they can maintain their hegemony or their MNCs get lucrative deals.

End of the day I dont care if NDA rules us or UPA ...whether we are democracy or a dictatorship or something else. What I really want is that we too should progress like China did in 80s till 2010s growing at 10% per annum. Most people on this forum am sure are pretty well to do - unfortunately large parts of India isn't and it breaks my heart that even as I turned 50 this year, the progress I have seen has been very pathetic and still continues to be bad. I only hope and pray that some miracle happens soon and we too will become like China today atleast by 2050.

Now while I dont buy hifi products costing lakhs ..every now and then I am surprised that products that were made in India by well known reputed brands are today manufactured in China...few examples over the last five years

(a) I bought a standing fan from USHA - made in china
(b) I bought a standing fan from Bajaj - made in china
(c) Hell last week I bought badminton shoes costing 3500 from a brand called Hundred..which is an Indian brand over Yonex which was costing the same...when I got the shoes...made in china

Just go to dmart and see ..most unbranded items are made in china...plastics, glass items,,even clips to protect your clothes on a hanging wire is from China

Its all and good to be supportive of our establishment...but one needs to be pragmatic too.

My favorite example that I quote everywhere is this:

One well built man..on independence day..takes his bullet out to flag hoisting ceremony - he has illegally modified his silencer to create noise pollution all along the way. He jumps signals...overtakes vehicles endangering lives, spits paan everywhere on the road, parks his bike in an no parking area and finally reaches the flag hoisting place and salutes and sings the national anthem....where funnily enough..the flag pole itself is illegally built on the main road.

While its ok to salute and sing national anthem to show our patriotism...its far more important...to work hard, pay our taxes, follow rules and regulations and be a good citizen, which frankly is not the case today.

Again I do apologize as my post is not intended to hurt anybody...but somehow we seem to get carried away with jingoism a lot now a days believing we are well on our way to being a super power....reality is that we are a nobody. doesnt matter whether we are part of G20 or BRICS or QUAD...these are all timepass things. When china stopped us from joint patrolling in Depsang and thus took away hundreds of sq kms..no brics or g20 came to our rescue. Even today you read any foreign news article...whether its politics, defence, technology....its all about USA, western world and Japan and Korea and China. No one mentions India anywhere.

This article is not about being a pessimist. Just that we are so poor backward and underdeveloped ....we really need to grow very fast...10%+ GDP For 25 years.

Except point b and e, I would agree with the rest. China had an opportunity and when you have a billion people in a country, the govt and leaders need vision and policies other than just appeasing for votes. I might be pessimistic but seeing india in it current situation, it will take forever to be developed even like china. India is the best country in the world to live a free life, it allows everyone to do whatever they want as that's the basic problem. Tell me one country which allows it's people to block national highways and train stations for months as part of protests, everyone has so much freedom here that people take it for granted, there is no other country which provides this kind of freedom. Govt try to appease people in every way for votebank in name of democracy. As a result people become lazy/corrupt/insecure and careless about each other. Then we have this system of different states which are fighting among each other. There is no consensus for even a national language. People from one state look down upon people from other states and behave like they come from a different species. People lack basic civic sense on roads and public places. Govt depts like police and healthcare are worst compared to any country yet people look upon govt jobs as godly. Really we expect india to grow as one and be a developed country by 2050? It would be a miracle. To become a developed country is more than just GDP data.

 

[arnprasad]

India becoming a dveloped country thats a distant dream. If we become like what China is today in 2050 good enough. Its not that everyone in China is disciplined or follows rules or pays taxes. Inspite of all that they have managed to reach someplace.

We just seem to be junglee people - dirty, indisciplined, dont care attitude, obnoxious, hatred for other castes, religions; no respect for time..etc. I was 2-3 years old when emergency was imposed. While not really a supporter of such actions, we do get to read that in that 1-2 years, trains used to run on time, corruption got reduced..etc

I am writing all this because the way I live my life - I have no ACs at home, I rarely drive my car - I am 99% public transport user in BLR, still go to our largest mandi at KR market every week in a bus, and all my holidays -whether in India or abroad are done in public transportation only - hence observe all this and the stark poverty on a regular basis.

Regarding point b - all the neutral tv journalists have quit or sold their holdings and are streaming on youtube now. OF course their news does not have the masala and are mostly boring and pessimistic - Ravish being an example. But we need that. What we see today on popular channels irrespective of language is the same..whether you tune to aajtak or abp news or republic or timesnow......the news follow the same pattern - bash the opposition, bash Pakistan, overhype some injustice done to majority while ignoring injustice done to minorities..overblow the little achievements of current government..what press freedom is this? NDTV was kinda neutral but after the recent takeover, I have stopped watching it and completely rely on Youtube/internet. This is not just India - we have just copied what goes on in USA where CBS, NBC and ABC take extreme stand supporting democrats and dissing the republicans and Fox doing the opposite. Atleast there they have media supporting both sides...sadly we dont.

Regarding point e - while there are hundreds of articles..just read the wikipedia article on India-China conflict and how Arunachal became part of British Empire. The British exploited the weaknesses of its neighbours and usurped territory and today China being more powerful than its neighbours is doing the same. We are no different - after 71 war, we took few villages like Turtuk and Takshi from Pakistan, we have the Kali river origin issue with Nepal..etc. Again,there is no right or wrong here, just that the stronger kinda prey on the weak and hence all the more reason we have to become stronger economically very fast. We need a mature political leadership to make peace with Pakistan and China and divert part of the defence budget on areas that need more funding like Education and health.

 

[Nikhil]

I was in China last week and my head is still spinning at what I saw.
To put it mildly the gap is even larger than I thought - probably about 10 to 15 years.

Urban China is at a level that is above most Western countries at a scale that would boggle the mind.
The infrastructure and urban sprawl is at a level most even in the west would struggle to comprehend.
What we see from here is a highly distorted view of an absolutely advanced society.

In contrast, the people in China are completely open and have absolutely no bias against India.
As I have said before, we need to work with China and remove all negative connotations associated with Chinese products.
China has what India needs - exceptional products at fair prices that are impossible elsewhere.

Below is the view from my hotel room at Shenzhen.



.

 

[mbhangui]

This is on old post and not sure if replying now makes sense. But I see some very simplistic arguments being made.

Mods: Pls delete my post if its too political or ruffles some feathers. But just thought I would put across my thoughts. I did vote for BJP and am no supporter of opposition. But I am also very well read and travelled...so some myths need to be clarified.

(a) China is what it is today not because it is authoritarian or killed 30 million but because of their forward vision, discipline and hard work. The Chinese miracle started in the 70s and 80s thanks to USA embracing China and Dengs forward looking policies...this is loooong after revolution. They got an opportunity and made full use of it and we haven't

(b) People are quick to point out that there is no democracy in China and there is no free press. How many of you feel happy looking at election results and feel proud about it (not talking about bhakts...but generally). Have you seen the status of press freedom in India? you write something against the current dispensation and next day an FIR will be filed against you.

(c) While millions did die in China...do you know how many millions died in India due to poverty? even today we are world leaders in bad indicators like kids with stunted growth, kids not going to school, educated kids who cant do basic maths..etc.

(d) Not really sure what Xi did that people are being unhappy about. He trying to make China a super power and he is well on his way to achieve his goals.

(e) Regarding China occupying our territory...etc. - again as a patriot I want us to legally own and rule everything shown in our political map - but this not an easy topic. India what we have in our political map is what the British gave us. India was never this big - not in vedic times..not under Mauryas...not under Mughals.... So what the British did was slowly nibble at others territories expanding their empire at the same time ensuring there were buffer areas between the Russians Chinese and India. Hence while we have a valid claim based on our constitution - The Chinese too have a valid claim - maybe claiming whole of south china sea is a bit too much and unfair...but when it comes to Ladakh..Arunachal...etc - this is not a black and white issue if you look at it in purely neutral terms. If you look at their history - they too have lost plenty of territory to Russians.

(f) As far as make in india is concerned - one should not cherry pick data and say we are doing great...that is like Congress saying we have established IITs and IIMs and AIIMS...etc. What we need to see are broad economic indicators like our GDP growth, our per capita growth, Share of manufacturing in our GDP...etc and in most of these parameters the current government is no better than the manmohan singh govt and in many parameters even worse. I know well educated people dont like the opposition and its ok to take that stand...but broad economic data wont lie.

(g) Some of you seem to diss China and have special love for the western world. What you do not seem to realize is that the western world is the root cause for all that is wrong in the world today. Its not China. Whatever is happening in the middle east is due to carving up of countries by the European powers and USA in the first half of 20th century and I can give you plenty of instances where USA and European powers have aided coups and revolutions just so that they can maintain their hegemony or their MNCs get lucrative deals.

End of the day I dont care if NDA rules us or UPA ...whether we are democracy or a dictatorship or something else. What I really want is that we too should progress like China did in 80s till 2010s growing at 10% per annum. Most people on this forum am sure are pretty well to do - unfortunately large parts of India isn't and it breaks my heart that even as I turned 50 this year, the progress I have seen has been very pathetic and still continues to be bad. I only hope and pray that some miracle happens soon and we too will become like China today atleast by 2050.

Now while I dont buy hifi products costing lakhs ..every now and then I am surprised that products that were made in India by well known reputed brands are today manufactured in China...few examples over the last five years

(a) I bought a standing fan from USHA - made in china
(b) I bought a standing fan from Bajaj - made in china
(c) Hell last week I bought badminton shoes costing 3500 from a brand called Hundred..which is an Indian brand over Yonex which was costing the same...when I got the shoes...made in china

Just go to dmart and see ..most unbranded items are made in china...plastics, glass items,,even clips to protect your clothes on a hanging wire is from China

Its all and good to be supportive of our establishment...but one needs to be pragmatic too.

My favorite example that I quote everywhere is this:

One well built man..on independence day..takes his bullet out to flag hoisting ceremony - he has illegally modified his silencer to create noise pollution all along the way. He jumps signals...overtakes vehicles endangering lives, spits paan everywhere on the road, parks his bike in an no parking area and finally reaches the flag hoisting place and salutes and sings the national anthem....where funnily enough..the flag pole itself is illegally built on the main road.

While its ok to salute and sing national anthem to show our patriotism...its far more important...to work hard, pay our taxes, follow rules and regulations and be a good citizen, which frankly is not the case today.

Again I do apologize as my post is not intended to hurt anybody...but somehow we seem to get carried away with jingoism a lot now a days believing we are well on our way to being a super power....reality is that we are a nobody. doesnt matter whether we are part of G20 or BRICS or QUAD...these are all timepass things. When china stopped us from joint patrolling in Depsang and thus took away hundreds of sq kms..no brics or g20 came to our rescue. Even today you read any foreign news article...whether its politics, defence, technology....its all about USA, western world and Japan and Korea and China. No one mentions India anywhere.

This article is not about being a pessimist. Just that we are so poor backward and underdeveloped ....we really need to grow very fast...10%+ GDP For 25 years.

I purchased Diwali lights marked "Make in India' with the gabbar sher logo but Made in China.

You have accurately depicated all points made in your post. We are still fighting on the basis of language, caste and religion. We still elect criminals to the highest office. We have a long way to go before hoping to compete with China.

Regarding point e, India was mostly never united, unlike China. The region was collection of Kings fighting against each other. India was the largest during the British India. Before that it was the largest during the Maurya empire from (321–185 BCE), followed by the Mughal period and by the 16th centur the Mughals had started governing most of the Indian subcontinent. The Mughals suffered a gradual decline in the early 18th century, largely due to the rising power of the Marathas, who took control of extensive regions of the Indian subcontinent. This decline of the Mughals paved way for East India Company, to gradually acquire control of huge areas of India between the middle of the 18th and the middle of the 19th centuries.

Note:
Before the British India (4.99 million sq kms), It's basically a competition between the Mauryans and Mughals and possibly the Guptas.

It's commonly stated that at their height, the Maurya Empire was 5 million sq kms, the Mughal Empire was 4 million and Gupta Empire was 3.5 million. You'll see these numbers everywhere. And if this is to be believed then it's obvious the Mauryan Empire was the largest.

But on a closer inspection, you'll notice the problem is much more complex, no one knows for sure how large these empires were, especially in case of Maurya and Gupta empires since they existed in antiquity and we have limited sources for them, and so these numbers are actually scholarly estimates.

For example, in case of the Mauryan Empire, historians have typically measured the size of the empire based on Ashoka Pillars and Greek and Roman sources which don't go into much detail. This gives us only a rough idea of the empire. Plus there was a lot of land which was uninhabited or belonged to various tribes and it's not clear if it was part of the empire.

 

[arnprasad]

I purchased Diwali lights marked "Make in India' with the gabbar sher logo but Made in China.

You have accurately depicated all points made in your post. We are still fighting on the basis of language, caste and religion. We still elect criminals to the highest office. We have a long way to go before hoping to compete with China.

Regarding point e, India was mostly never united, unlike China. The region was collection of Kings fighting against each other. India was the largest during the British India. Before that it was the largest during the Maurya empire from (321–185 BCE), followed by the Mughal period and by the 16th centur the Mughals had started governing most of the Indian subcontinent. The Mughals suffered a gradual decline in the early 18th century, largely due to the rising power of the Marathas, who took control of extensive regions of the Indian subcontinent. This decline of the Mughals paved way for East India Company, to gradually acquire control of huge areas of India between the middle of the 18th and the middle of the 19th centuries.

Note:
Before the British India (4.99 million sq kms), It's basically a competition between the Mauryans and Mughals and possibly the Guptas.

It's commonly stated that at their height, the Maurya Empire was 5 million sq kms, the Mughal Empire was 4 million and Gupta Empire was 3.5 million. You'll see these numbers everywhere. And if this is to be believed then it's obvious the Mauryan Empire was the largest.

But on a closer inspection, you'll notice the problem is much more complex, no one knows for sure how large these empires were, especially in case of Maurya and Gupta empires since they existed in antiquity and we have limited sources for them, and so these numbers are actually scholarly estimates.

For example, in case of the Mauryan Empire, historians have typically measured the size of the empire based on Ashoka Pillars and Greek and Roman sources which don't go into much detail. This gives us only a rough idea of the empire. Plus there was a lot of land which was uninhabited or belonged to various tribes and it's not clear if it was part of the empire.

True, I mean I have no issue believing the "hindu/buddhist/Jain" part of India may have been united during Maurya/Gupta/Mughal rule although frankly I doubt 1500 years back someone would have the means to control more than a million Km as most of the country would have been forests with no roads.

Regarding the photo from Shenzen - well its a known well developed city - so no surprises there. Look at Lhasa where we claim that China is subjugating the buddhists or Kashgar/Xinjiang where we are told muslims are enslaved. These videos are of course from tourist point of view and their movement may be limited to "better" parts of the city as wanted by the authorities - still can you think of any part of India which is anyway near these places? Maybe inside large apartment complexes we have decent looking construction and facilities - but can you think of too many public places in whole of India which has this type of well planned construction?

As mentioned in my first post - I walk/take public transportation across Bangalore and I cannot think of one km of continous 'footpathed' road anywhere in Bangalore - always forced to walk on the main roads as there is either no footpath or whereever we have them - occupied by vendors

Forget about westerners gushing about China.lets look at our own folks in China who seems bowled over

Having said all this...I was in Amritsar few months back and the half a km around the the Golden temple is pretty impressive for Indian standards - developed by the badal government I guess. Nice, neat, clean, we can walk around without the risk of being knocked down by a vehicle - but why we can do these things only for half a km beats me. Just because we have traditional markets doesnt mean they have to continue this way. Coz once you cross that half km and go into gullies...we have all sorts of rickshaws trying to navigate 10-15 feet wide roads honking all the time. YOu go to Istanbul which has even older history and they too have gullies and markets in them...you dont see such mayhem

 

[sachinchavan 15865]

India is far too diverse than any other nation on the world, including China, which, despite its population, is largely homogenous in comparison. Hence, it’s unidimensional and limiting to compare them on economic growth or prosperity. I value India’s diversity (ethnic, cultural, religious, linguistic, geographic, environmental etc) a lot to hanker for a homogenising urban monoculture paving way for fast economic growth.

When I look back at life 20-30 years ago (till my twenties) when we were stuck in the 0-4% GDP growth range, I feel people at large were happier back then. Neighbourhoods were more vibrant, families more together, people more socially, politically aware and vocal, and indulging in more wholesome pursuits in their personal lives. This might be true of the world at large too. Nostalgia? Perhaps… I don’t have indicators to prove any of these. Check with your own memory.

As for chi-fi audio products, yes they have price-disrupted the audiophile market for their entrenched western competitors where the industry is witnessing forced consolidation. It also opens up possibilities of expanding the audiophile markets in developing countries like ours. And one hopes, inspires some home-grown A/V entrepreneurs to graduate from the well-lover artisan stage to well-distributed and marketed product company stage.

What Indian consumer products industry also needs, to make a mark in the world, is Indian retain chains (both physical and online) to go global. Just see AliExpress’s role in the globalisation of Chinese products. We need the mighty RD’s and Cromas to try something similar.

 

[arnprasad]

India is far too diverse than any other nation on the world, including China, which, despite its population, is largely homogenous in comparison. Hence, it’s unidimensional and limiting to compare them on economic growth or prosperity. I value India’s diversity (ethnic, cultural, religious, linguistic, geographic, environmental etc) a lot to hanker for a homogenising urban monoculture paving way for fast economic growth.

When I look back at life 20-30 years ago (till my twenties) when we were stuck in the 0-4% GDP growth range, I feel people at large were happier back then. Neighbourhoods were more vibrant, families more together, people more socially, politically aware and vocal, and indulging in more wholesome pursuits in their personal lives. This might be true of the world at large too.

True and that is one of the reasons why many of us have decided not to migrate although we have had our chances. We have seen decent development over the past 25 years, no doubt. Roads are better, highways, while not per world standards are great. But still if we call ourselves a great nation with a looong history and a vishwa guru today - we still have a long way to go. My only grouch is that some 20-30% of the population have definitely seen their lives becoming much better over the past three decades. Only wish the other 60-70% also have the chance to progress at a fast pace so that - as I keep repeating - atleast in the next 25 years, we will become like what China is today.

 

[Hari Iyer]

Reading all the above post makes me more confused. Can someone tell me definition of very simple terms as below,
- what do you mean by "Developed"? Does that mean if my maid is able to buy my tube monoblocks costing 4.5L+ then India is developed?
- or if we have a very glittery infrastructure when everything looks picture perfect and in proper geometric shape in right angles for the entire country - then we are devloped?
-or when every Indian has basic needs of roti, Kapadia aur Makkan plus all the added luxury of buying fancy DAC / Cars etc. then we are developed.

The definition of being developed has first to be set and it varies for each individual. Every person does not go by the same measure of development. For instance in my community being done well in your life and career means you should have atleast 2 to 3 houses in your name in different cities of India. For somebody in north India owning a Ferrari / Buggati would mean well done in carreer. For my home maid her standards of development is different. We need to understand this basic rule of development and not paint everything with the same brush of the so called development. The problem is when we paint a certain picture of development and if the pictures don't agree with our own standards then we cry we are underdeveloped. We need to be careful about how the westerns want us to paint our picture with their image of what development should be. Hope our country have their own image and don't fall into a trap.

Imo, if your own perfect image of development agrees with that of picture perfect image of Switzerland, then you should consider shifting there instead of trying to achieve that here. Isn't it more simpler?

 

[Nikhil]

The definition of being developed has first to be set and it varies for each individual.

Good point. I would say that one of the criteria would be when one's basic needs are met.

At this point, from my experience in China, most of the people I met were living high quality lives.
They have access to amazing food, superior infrastructure, and enjoy extremely good safety incl. law and order.
Businesses have solid access to finance and a trained work force that would be a dream to have anywhere.

In India we live with a scarcity mentality where people are fighting to get basic necessities at very high cost.



.

 

[firearm12]

Reading all the above post makes me more confused. Can someone tell me definition of very simple terms as below,
- what do you mean by "Developed"? Does that mean if my maid is able to buy my tube monoblocks costing 4.5L+ then India is developed?
- or if we have a very glittery infrastructure when everything looks picture perfect and in proper geometric shape in right angles for the entire country - then we are devloped?
-or when every Indian has basic needs of roti, Kapadia aur Makkan plus all the added luxury of buying fancy DAC / Cars etc. then we are developed.

The definition of being developed has first to be set and it varies for each individual. Every person does not go by the same measure of development. For instance in my community being done well in your life and career means you should have atleast 2 to 3 houses in your name in different cities of India. For somebody in north India owning a Ferrari / Buggati would mean well done in carreer. For my home maid her standards of development is different. We need to understand this basic rule of development and not paint everything with the same brush of the so called development. The problem is when we paint a certain picture of development and if the pictures don't agree with our own standards then we cry we are underdeveloped. We need to be careful about how the westerns want us to paint our picture with their image of what development should be. Hope our country have their own image and don't fall into a trap.

Imo, if your own perfect image of development agrees with that of picture perfect image of Switzerland, then you should consider shifting there instead of trying to achieve that here. Isn't it more simpler?

To me, a developed society and country would mean where most population is educated, sensitive towards each other, know their basic rights, have basic civic sense, have their basic necessities met and then govt provide equal facilities to all. Rest of all automatically follows. Question is our govt really working to achieve this?

 

[jaiwant_alex]

When I look back at life 20-30 years ago (till my twenties) when we were stuck in the 0-4% GDP growth range, I feel people at large were happier back then. Neighbourhoods were more vibrant, families more together, people more socially, politically aware and vocal, and indulging in more wholesome pursuits in their personal lives. This might be true of the world at large too. Nostalgia? Perhaps… I don’t have indicators to prove any of these. Check with your own memory.

I often ask my self the same thing - were people actually happier when they had limited means and limited choices ? Or am I just biased towards a time when I saw the world through from a more innocent and possibly naive perspective ?

 

[Hari Iyer]

To me, a developed society and country would mean where most population is educated, sensitive towards each other, know their basic rights, have basic civic sense, have their basic necessities met and then govt provide equal facilities to all.

Exactly my point. For each individual the definition of development will vary - just like what is a good setup or sound vary with each individual and is very subjective. You just can't have a fixed parameters defined by the west as a criteria for development.

 

[arnprasad]

I think most of you are looking at your lives and deciding if people were happy back then or happy today. Most of us on this forum am sure are well to do and hence we are part of the lucky bunch that reaped the benefits of Indias growth. While development can be defined in many number of ways, one can agree that for a family to say they live a decent life, it means say for a family of four (a) atleast 5-600 sq feet pucca house(outside mumbai of course) (b) Atleast 20K of monthly income (c) Access to quality education and healthcare (d) average life expectancy of 75......etc. 70-80% of India lack these.

See this article. One might say ones maid is happy she got a fridge and TV..but am sure she lives in a slum with really bad sanitary conditions. et al

People earning Rs 25,000 per month fall in top 10% of wage earners in India: Report - Times of India

India Business News: NEW DELHI: India’s income profile is outlined by a growing disparity between those who lie on the top end of the earning pyramidand those on the botto.

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

 

[Hari Iyer]

I have read that many thousands of people in US and China also live in slums. The only difference visavis India is they are completely hidden from public view. Maybe they are ashamed of that where Indians are more open in accepting our poor have nots population.