Buying Western Classical Music

[ajay124]

ylesmana

"if you are a stereo player then money should be ready"

I am afraid my views are diametrically opposite of those. Hi Fi should be a passion but it should never become an addiction. It should never become a selfish pursuit, where you sacrifice the interests of other family members in order to satisfy your desires. Your budget should dictate HI Fi and not the other way around. If one reads the posts on this forum, one comes across members who have a 10K budget for an entire system, and members who basically don't have a budget. A bigger budget does not automatically translate into a more passionate or knowledgeable audiophile. My sympathy will always be for the small guy. For the guy who may not be able to afford good stuff, but holds an enormous passion for HI FI and for music. HI FI should not be treated as a status symbol. Price tags do not automatically reflect quality. A price tag with too many zeros could be offering cutting edge HI FI for the chosen few, or it could be offering snake oil for those with inadequate knowledge.

What is the average budget of an audiophile in India? What is the average budget of a Hifivision forum member? What is the total population of audiophiles in India? Interesting questions without any ready answers! I have not come across any study conducted by anyone which addresses these questions. There are so many luxury brands setting up shop in India these days. Why does HI FI still remain such a small market, with limited outlets and limited choice? Lack of interest among consumers, or lack of marketing by the producers? Buying good brands will remain a luxury or a dream for many audiophiles in India, but auditioning a few brands in one's hometown will hopefully become a reality one day. Audio fairs by manufacturers and distributors, HI FI meets in different cities, affordable prices for brand new stuff, an active and reliable market for used stuff, can also help in making India a bigger audio destination. Recently I read that Meridian is opening boutique stores in various Indian cities. Will other brands follow suit?

 

[ajay124]

Hundreds of channels and nothing to watch. That's my plight. I stopped renewing my Tata Sky subscription 5 years ago, and have not watched television ever since. All the sound and fury of the last 5 years, on news channels, business channels, sports channels, music and film channels has faded into a distant, invisible sky. I do not feel I have missed much

In hotel rooms with the mandatory television screen which I politely ask the hotel staff to remove (they never oblige), I watch CBeebies with my daughter with immense pleasure. Teletubbies and In The Night Garden, my favorite television programmes!

At home both my daughter and I watch YouTube. She watches cartoons vetted by me on her laptop, and I watch live recordings of Western Classical music. Which are slowly getting better and better. Complete sessions in high definition rather than scratchy snippets. Several orchestras are starting their own channels, free or paid, which can be viewed on the internet. Once this trend takes off, I just might might buy an internet ready 50 inch LCD screen (Sony) and park it atop my audio rack. Maybe. Maybe not.

Yesterday I watched a superb live recording of a BBC prom featuring Valery Gergiev conducting Mahler's 4 symphony. One hundred channels being offered on television. Why can't one of them be dedicated to beaming live performances of Western classical, Indian classical, Classic rock and jazz?

The LSO in two minutes | Video channel | London Symphony Orchestra
The Berliner Philharmoniker's Digital Concert Hall
Concertgebouworkest luister

 

[ylesmana]

I never being addicted to High End Audio though I do not decline the fact, wherever I go...I must go to Audio Dealer but that is only to see the new model, technology and audition but it does not mean I end up with keep buying all these stuff. What I meant in the statement is.. better buying all equipments at once and in the top performance level rather than buying not in the optimal way..in other words better thrown money at once and you satisfy for another 20-30 years. Because I believe in what is called Investment. This applies to me on many things like wallet, shoes, pens, watches, etc. I never bought crapy items even though, for example you still can see the watch with 10 dollars but investing in 4000 dollars watch is not harm since you can use it throughout your life. I never sacrifice others family members hobby just because of me but I dont know that may because all of us are working and earning money very decent. Regarding on your question how many audiophile in India, etc? frankly speaking I do not know the answer but given the fact that all these sound systems are build to listen mainly for classical music and not other things....they make all these systems mainly for listen instrumental and nice vocal song like Nat King Cole, Sarah Brightman, Carpenters, Teresa Teng, etc Not pop, metallica, rock and rest of junk music.

Regarding your statement about TV...I do not think it is the right way to stop TV at all....Personally, I do not watch television either (I do fully agree that movies and other related sources these days are really crap but think about other things, what about NEWS?) You cannot rely on internet, you tube, news paper on these.

 

[ajay124]

ylesmana

We have similar preferences about some things and different perceptions about other things. Fine. That's the way it usually happens. The world and this forum would become a boring place, if everybody agreed about everything, and said the same things

We have a common passion for western classical music which is how we 'met' on this forum. And I still hope to comvince you that Russian composers from Glinka to Shostakovich are on par with the great composers from Austria and Germany

I prefer to follow news on the internet. All the newspapers are available online. I usually read The Hindu, Guardian, NYT, Spiegel Online, WSJ and Bloomberg.

 

[ylesmana]

Ajay124,

Many thanks to keep influence me on Russian Composer, yes I do fully agreed that they are on par with Austrian and German composer...I will try to get the feeling first with Shostakovich, Stravinsky, Profokiev, etc. Since I am also a pianist, I mainly play work from Beethoven, Chopin, Listz, Schumann, Brahms, Rachmaninoff, Scriabin, Grieg, Mozart, Tekla B?darzewska-Baranowska (not sure if you heard this composer), Tchaikovsky and many.

Sure, life is certainly fully boring if things are same and agreed all times. There must be some cross over view points among people.

 

[ajay124]

My introduction to Dmitri Shostakovich was through The Jazz Album. The jazz featured on this album was leagues ahead of any jazz I had ever heard before. It was exciting, exuberant and extraordinary music. This album is essential listening for any fan of classical or jazz music. I got it at a very reasonable price from Rhythm House/Mumbai, but currently Amazon UK is quoting a much higher price.

Shostakovich: The Jazz Album: Dmitry Shostakovich, Riccardo Chailly, Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra, Ronald Brautigam, Peter Masseurs: Amazon.co.uk: Music

Next I bought his String Quartets 1-13 by the original Borodin Quartet. DS actually wrote 15 Quartets, but the Borodin Quartet broke up before they could record the last two. This recording is one the hidden treasures of world music. It should be locked up in bank vaults or displayed in a museum. It should be selling for 100's of dollars. Yet it is available at absurdly cheap prices on Amazon. These 4 CD's feature music which is so remarkably good that it defies description. The moment I slip Disc 1 into my CDP, I enter audio nirvana Definitely a desert island disc!

Shostakovich: String Quartets 1-13: Dmitri Shostakovich: Amazon.co.uk: Music

I had to decide whether to buy all the DS symphonies in one box set or as single CD's. I opted for the more expensive choice of single CD's, featuring different composers and orchestra's.

The Kyril Kondarshin/Moscow PSO version is generally considered the best box set.

Shostakovich - Complete Symphonies: Kondrashin, Moscow Philharmonic Symphony Orchestra, Oistrakh, Dmitry Shostakovich, Kyrill Kondrashin: Amazon.co.uk: Music

Another extremely good box set is by Bernard Haitink and the glorious Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra. I would love to buy this box set but it is expensive.

Shostakovich: The Symphonies: D. Shostakovich: Amazon.co.uk: Music

Symphony 14 is missing from my collection at the moment, but I have the rest of the symphonies on the following CD's:

Shostakovich: Symphony Nos. 2 & 11 (Mariinsky Orchestra & Chorus / Valery Gergiev): Mariinsky Orchestra & Chorus, Shostakovich, Valery Gergiev: Amazon.co.uk: Music
Shostakovich: Symphonies Nos. 3 & 10 (Mariinsky Orchestra/Gergiev) Gramophone Editor's Choice: Mariinsky Orchestra, Dmitri Shostakovich, Valery Gergiev: Amazon.co.uk: Music
Shostakovich: Symphonies Nos.1 & 7 "Leningrad": Chicago Symphony Orchestra, Leonard Bernstein: Amazon.co.uk: Music
Shostakovich:Symphonies 5 & 9: Bernard Haitink, Bernard Haitink, Concertgebouw Orchestra, London Philharmonic Orchestra: Amazon.co.uk: Music
Shostakovich - Symphony No 8 (LSO Rostropovich): London Symphony Orchestra, Dmitry Shostakovich, Mstislav Rostropovich: Amazon.co.uk: Music
Shostakovich - Symphony 13: Shostakovich: Amazon.co.uk: Music
Shostakovich: Symphonies Nos 6 & 12: Dmitry Shostakovich: Amazon.co.uk: Music
Shostakovich: Symphony No.15/Sonata No.2: Dmitry Shostakovich: Amazon.co.uk: Music
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Symphony-No...U9NI/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1315206947&sr=8-2

And finally the icing on the cake! David Oistrakh and Mstislav Rostropovich (contemporaries and fellow countrymen of Shostakovich) performing his Violin and Cello Concerto.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Concerto-Ro...=sr_1_3?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1315206251&sr=1-3

 

[ajay124]

ylesmana

It will be interesting to learn more about your piano playing. At what age did you start playing? Did you go to any music school? What kind and brand of piano do you play or have? Some pictures.

Personally I have never played any musical instrument. I had once a bought a harmonica in the days when I was a big fan of Bob Dylan and Neil Young. But it was a short lived passion which petered off soon, because I did not have any knowledge of notes, chords or scales, and I don't have the mental discipline and dedication to pursue it further. I guess I am destined to remain an armchair listener forever

 

[ssf]

I have tried my hand at guitar and failed. Played the drums a bit but never really excelled at it. Piano is something that I am considering at the tender age of 45. I have a 9 year old niece who plays it and I love the sound of it. I still feel that I just might be able to play the Rachmaninoff Sonata #1 if I give it a try.

Rachmaninoff Sonata #1 Part1 - YouTube

 

[ylesmana]

Ajay124,

I started to learn piano at the very young age [4.5 years old] and now am 30...so it has been quite long time...At home I have Yamaha which still build up in Japan and I have played Steinway and Sons, Pleyel many times too..It all depends...for Beethoven works I mainly choosing to play Steinway where as for Chopin opted for Pleyel....

 

[ajay124]

Sunil

I wish you all the best in your Rachmaninov ventures, and if you should falter or require some inspiration, there is always rum and coke and ice

 

[ajay124]

Everything you always wanted to know about piano's but were afraid to ask

Piano Types And Styles (Piano)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HfSsZyxRnU

 

[ssf]

Ajay,

I sometimes think that learning to play an instrument like the piano would make me understand music a little better. Help me appreciate and differentiate between musicians and their playing styles thereby facilitating the buying of a wide variety of western classical music. (The last part is inserted to give the illusion of being on topic)

What are your thoughts on this ?

 

[ajay124]

Ajay,

I sometimes think that learning to play an instrument like the piano would make me understand music a little better. Help me appreciate and differentiate between musicians and their playing styles thereby facilitating the buying of a wide variety of western classical music. (The last part is inserted to give the illusion of being on topic)

What are your thoughts on this ?

Learning to read notations, learning to play instruments and attending live performances would all lead to a deeper understanding of classical music.

My knowledge of western classical music will always remain at a basic level because I cannot read notations, or identify the notes I am listening to. My lack of exposure to live classical music makes it difficult to identify all the instrument which are playing while listening to a symphony. My knowledge of the techniques conductors and musicians use to give shape and form to the written notations is rudimentary, or rather non existent.

There is no one to blame for all these lacunas. Its just that the time and space I was born in, grew up in, and now live in, has very little room for real music. When I was a child everybody around me had was listening to hindi film music, and that was the sum total of their musical horizon. My elder brother first tuned into Radio Ceylon and introduced me to pop music. In college I discovered rock music along with a few friends. But after that it has been essentially a lonely journey.

In the mid 80's I met someone who had recently been transferred from Calcutta. He worked in the marketing department of a music company in Chandigarh. During a chance meeting at a music shop I gushed about the great rock guitarists to him. He invited me to his room to hear a different kind of music. He had a basic vinyl based set up. He played Earl Klugh, Al Di Meola, Paco De Lucia and John Mclaughlin for me. He played and spoke about Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Sonny Rollins, Thelonious Monk and the other jazz greats. It was probably his influence which got me into jazz. But soon he moved back to Calcutta and I was left on my own to explore jazz. For the first couple of years jazz remained a curiosity. I bought several Blue Note anthologies and became familiar with jazz musicians, but I was more comfortable with the sound of rock than with the sound of Bop. Jazz sounded nice at times and 'funny' at other times. I couldn't handle Charlie Parker or Dizzy Gillespie but I enjoyed playing Earl Klugh, Chuck Mangione, Stanley Turrentine and Ben Webster. Most of my listening still revolved around Cream, Santana, Dire Straits, Doors and Co. The first jazz tunes which clicked big time with me and signalled the end of my fascination with rock were, Summertime by Miles Davis, Solitude by Ellington, Straight No Chaser by Monk, Naima by Coltrane and Mack The Knife by Louis Armstrong.

My discovery of western classical music began with Milos Foreman's Amadeus. Hollywood, with its need to entertain rather than educate, may not be the best introduction to Mozart. But for someone like me who had never heard Mozart's music before, it was like manna from heaven.

"On the page it looked like nothing. The beginning simple, almost comic. Just a pulse - bassoons and basset horns - like a rusty squeezebox. Then suddenly - high above it - an oboe, a single note, hanging there unwavering, till a clarinet took over and sweetened it into a phrase of such delight! This was no composition by a performing monkey! This was a music I'd never heard before. Filled with such longing, such unfulfillable longing, it had me trembling. It seemed to me that I was hearing the very voice of God"

Salieri (Quote from the film)

 

[jls001]

Sunil

I wish you all the best in your Rachmaninov ventures, and if you should falter or require some inspiration, there is always rum and coke and ice

But this will require that others around him also imbibe the spirit:lol:

@ajay: the ability to identify notes would probably make one's listening technically more satisfying, but the inability to identify a C key, or a C# (sharp), or C7 any other note for that matter, does not in any way take away the pleasure of listening to music. Although notes are absolute in pitch, hearing them is relative.

@ssf: please try learning the keyboard. At your age, it will be frustrating and rewarding, in equal measures. I bought an entry level Yamaha synth some years ago in the hope that I will at least learn to play basic tunes. That I have achieved, sort of. But I have not made any progress beyond that due to sheer laziness. I even took lessons from a cousin who is formally trained in piano but the lack of talent (at my end) and enthusiasm (again at my end) are my undoing.

Joshua

 

[thatguy]

While everyone is discussing piano playing I thought I would chip in with my experience of trying to learn it as an adult. I taught myself a bit of piano a few months ago. I had to stop because other things caught up with me but I will start again.

Most of the knowledge came from books, some from youtube videos and and some by just spending time with the instrument (about 30-60 mins for 5-6 days a week).

I have attached a sample of what I achieved after about 3-4 months of hammering away at the keyboard. I didn't hire a teacher. I have an aversion to the 'guru' types and with my schedule working with anyone would have been impossible.

To anyone who is hesitant, I would say take the plunge. It is no different from learning carpentry, cooking or how to program a computer. There is an 'art' part, but most of it is craft that can be learned by anyone willing to put in the hours. Trust me, I am as unmusical as they get.

 

[ajay124]

thatguy

Good show! I am sure Santa will come visiting this Christmas and bless you with lots of HI FI goodies.

And we will wait patiently for the next zip file containing your Rachmaninov magnum opus

 

[ajay124]

The Swedish label BIS released a comprehensive 15 CD set of Sibelius in 2007, which is still avaiable on Amazon UK for roughly 35 pounds after VAT deduction. Last time I checked it was no longer available at Amazon US. I am pretty sure it will soon disappear from Amazon UK.

Sibelius (The Essential): Love Derwinger, Stina Ekblad, Bengt Forsberg, Gothenburg Symphony Orchestra, Folke Grasbeck, Anna Kreetta Gribajcevic, Monica Groop, Mari Anne Haggander, Tommi Hakala, Juhani Hapuli, Hynnin, Jean Sibelius, n/a: Amazon.co.uk:

BIS is now releasing the collected works of Sibelius as 'editions'. Edition 12 which is a 5CD set containing the 7 symphonies of Sibelius is currently priced at 51 pounds. The other BIS editions of the works of Sibelius are quoting at similar prices.

Sibelius: Edition Vol.12 (The Symphonies): Lahti Symphony Orchestra, Jean Sibelius, Osmo Vnsk, Jaakko Kuusisto: Amazon.co.uk: Music

The music on the 15 CD BIS set is absolutely magical. Sibelius has assumed a Mahler like aura for me since I bought this set. The works have primarily been conducted by Osma Vanska/Lahti Symphony Orchestra and Neeme Jarvi/Gothenburg Symphony Orchestra. Absolutely new and convincing renditions of the music of Sibelius.

The startling beauty of the northern lights, the incredible colors and textures of arctic flora and fauna, the icy chill of frozen rivers and fjords, endless nights, endless days, ancient memories and mystic fables, a reindeer casually, fearlessly ambling across an empty lapland highway, a pure silence that stretched back to the beginning of time, a town called Inari (my finest holiday memory) with a population of 0.45 inhabitants per sq kilometer, a hotel (run by one great lady managing everything, including the cooking) serving freshly caught trout and white wine for breakfast.....the BIS Sibelius set is priceless, because of its incomparable music, and because it brings back fond memories.

 

[ylesmana]

It is necessary to understand the right pitching to listen classical music...There are many orchestra (I do not have to name it) but when they play, players cannot even reach the right pitching and that is not nice and will impact the performance to entire orchestra. Even on the recording some violinist and pianist are also not able to perform as it is...

 

[deepakgang]

@thatguy - Your experience will for sure add much motivation to my ever-aspiring dream to learn to play an instrument at my age. Thanks.

@ajay - Music is indeed a journey for the performer and for the listener alike.


I am not sure if we have discussed this - but classical guitar is another which I like to listen to. It don't have the scale of an Orchestra but it sure has depth. Try to listen to Spanish, Russian, Latin American styles alongside the usual. John Williams, Pavel Steidel, Andres Segovia, Julian Bream, David Russell, Andrei Krylov etc.

 

[ylesmana]

@deepakgang,


What do you mean by it doesnt have the scale of an Orchestra? There are many composition for Guitar Concerto by Joaquin Rodrigo, Mario Giuliani, Boccherini, etc....