Comparing Shure M97xE and V15 Type III
- Thread starter jls001
- Start date
They will ship. I have confirmed that for another member a fortnight ago. Do speak to Jerry. You don't have to travel all the way to Mumbai to buy a cartridge
Also, if you are comfortable with online buying from US sites, this cartridge can be had for cheaper.
Last night I spent some time to do some critical listening of the Encounter. I detected a hint of IGD so out came my old faithful Stupid Protractor. I had not used the protractor when mounting the cart (DL103) on the Encounter.
After what I thought was the best alignment to both nulls the distortion got worse.
I recheck and re-aligned thrice but came up with unacceptable levels of distortion each time.
So in frustration I carefully aligned it by sight and came away with nil distortion. I don't know if I should continue trusting the Stupid Protractor for this particular arm. It has worked for me for my other arms. I have been using the Loefgren flavour. May be I should give the Baerwald a try.
After what I thought was the best alignment to both nulls the distortion got worse.
I recheck and re-aligned thrice but came up with unacceptable levels of distortion each time.
So in frustration I carefully aligned it by sight and came away with nil distortion. I don't know if I should continue trusting the Stupid Protractor for this particular arm. It has worked for me for my other arms. I have been using the Loefgren flavour. May be I should give the Baerwald a try.
That's again some good news. I think I will speak to him shortly. I have never made online purchase internationally so I am not sure how to go about it. BTW, how much it should be the landing cost overall if i ordered it from US? and from where?They will ship. I have confirmed that for another member a fortnight ago. Do speak to Jerry. You don't have to travel all the way to Mumbai to buy a cartridge
Also, if you are comfortable with online buying from US sites, this cartridge can be had for cheaper.
Hmmm... good question. I need to check. Also there was some sort of a protractor in the box. And a manual too. I guess I will need to look up what they might like to convey :lol:
To add: I have successfully used the Loefgren on the OL Silver. And even SME 3009 and ADC LMF2 arms. Loefgren does have different null points from the Baerwald.
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Update: got a new cartridge from a fellow forum member who no longer needed it. This is the ZYX RS 30-02 low output MC. I have mounted it on Encounter tonearm, using the Hypnotoad MC with appropriate loading values. This is a mid compliance cartridge unlike the Denon DL 103 it just displaced. And lighter too.
Sound: Santhosh had commented on his L75 build thread that this cart has tons of bass. Yes, its bass is quite weighty. The mid range is balanced and detailed. Highs are crisp, clear, extended and sweet.
Where does it stand? Well, the 103 is left biting the dust. It just can't compare in frequency extension at the low and upper reaches of the audio spectrum, but it is close in the mids.
The Kontrapunkt c has slightly lesser bass but it seems to have similar performance in other aspects.
In my hurry to start listening, I have not yet optimised tracking force (using about 1.7 grams, whereas the median recommended value is 1.8). VTA is unchanged from the 103 but looks fine enough. For my medium mass arm, Dr Bass recommends higher tracking force of 1.9 to 2 grams. Will try this out.
Sound: Santhosh had commented on his L75 build thread that this cart has tons of bass. Yes, its bass is quite weighty. The mid range is balanced and detailed. Highs are crisp, clear, extended and sweet.
Where does it stand? Well, the 103 is left biting the dust. It just can't compare in frequency extension at the low and upper reaches of the audio spectrum, but it is close in the mids.
The Kontrapunkt c has slightly lesser bass but it seems to have similar performance in other aspects.
In my hurry to start listening, I have not yet optimised tracking force (using about 1.7 grams, whereas the median recommended value is 1.8). VTA is unchanged from the 103 but looks fine enough. For my medium mass arm, Dr Bass recommends higher tracking force of 1.9 to 2 grams. Will try this out.
Thanks for the update Jls. I am curious to know what you think about the PRAT and Dynamics of the ZYX compared to Kontrapunkt. These two aspects were stand outs for me regarding this cart.
I haven't done serious listening yet. For PRAT, I need to listen to my favourite Strauss record performed by the Vienna Philharmonic.
For some reason, one screw that holds the cartridge to the head shell was loose. I remember that I had tightened it nice and proper the first time I fixed it. Obviously, over the last few days there was something wrong in the sound. I inspected many times for dust that may have been stuck on the stylus, and cleaned it. I haven't had the time to sit down for any serious listening so I didn't bother to check every part of the chain yet. All I knew was that I haven't really optimised the tracking weight, or the VTA.
This evening I sat down to listen to New Years Day Concert in Vienna, and it was sounding all dull, life less and timid. This was unusual as this double record from 1979 is so full of verve, colorful and open. In desperation, I unplugged the tonearm cable from the phono pre and was about to remove the cartridge when I discovered that one cartridge screw was loose! WTF moments ensued, and in no time the cable was plugged back, and the offending screw tightened. I had fully intended to change to another cartridge that was impatiently waiting in the wings
I sat down again to listen and was greeted with a much more melodious sound, BUT there was an unmistakable grit in the mid range. A quick adjustment of null points removed the grit and lifted off the proverbial diaphanous curtain. I say diaphanous, as one can have a glimpse of what's tantalisingly laying beyond the veil.
Yes, this cartridge is all that I said it is the first time I heard it. I don't hear a hint of warmth, it is quite neutral. It digs up a fair bit of detail, and plays it real loud when the passage demands of it. It has an enthusiastic attack and holds its decay well.
It is the equal of the Ortofon Kontrapunkt c. In fact it scores a wee bit higher than the c due to its weightier bass, though it loses out to the c in detail retrieval. A fine cartridge, this. The comparison with the Kontrapunkt c is not entirely fair as the c sported a Soundsmith Ruby cantilever and Soundsmith stylus.
PS : I have optimized VTF to 1.9 grams for my mid mass arm as advised by Dr Bass and it sounds much better this way.
The main symptom of one side of a cartridge not properly tightened is one channel being louder. The secondary symptom is "bad" sound. In my case, it was the left channel that played loud and the right channel played very low. I nearly broke my head trying to figure out what could be the source of the imbalance. I surely suspected the phono stage (which is still a WIP), cross-checked soldering points, especially "in" and "out" breakouts, and even swapped in/out cables to it, but nothing worked.
Then the blame shifted to the speakers, but nothing came of it. For some days I lived with the dreadful prospect of having to send my heavy speakers for possible repairs.
Next was the azimuth, where I thought I detected a slight imbalance. But I had checked it when it was playing a record so there was no gap between headshell and cartridge worthy of suspicion. If I had checked the azimuth when it wasn't playing the culprit would have showed up.
This sounds funny now but I even checked my right ear for unusually large deposits To its credit, it came up clean.
When the series of blamestorming did not produce any tangible culprit, I decided to change the cartridge and found the culprit there.
Then the blame shifted to the speakers, but nothing came of it. For some days I lived with the dreadful prospect of having to send my heavy speakers for possible repairs.
Next was the azimuth, where I thought I detected a slight imbalance. But I had checked it when it was playing a record so there was no gap between headshell and cartridge worthy of suspicion. If I had checked the azimuth when it wasn't playing the culprit would have showed up.
This sounds funny now but I even checked my right ear for unusually large deposits
To its credit, it came up clean.When the series of blamestorming did not produce any tangible culprit, I decided to change the cartridge and found the culprit there.
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Hi Jls,
your experimentation with different cartridges is quite interesting. You said you didn't have to change the VTA with ZYX as compared to Denon so is it the case they are of same depth? When you check the the azimuth do you do it with tonearm bubble level or by ear. From my experience I found the bubble level to be very useful but for that to be effective we need to have a absolutely level platter. It is quite tricky thing to adjust.
Thanks.
your experimentation with different cartridges is quite interesting. You said you didn't have to change the VTA with ZYX as compared to Denon so is it the case they are of same depth? When you check the the azimuth do you do it with tonearm bubble level or by ear. From my experience I found the bubble level to be very useful but for that to be effective we need to have a absolutely level platter. It is quite tricky thing to adjust.
Thanks.
The ZYX RS 30-02 and Denon DL 103 have very similar depths. So the ZYX is sounding quite fine (and looking quite level) without changing the previous VTA.
To check Azimuth, I normally view it head on, with one eye closed, eye at cartridge level. Spirit bubble is a more accurate way of doing it. I usually don't bother too much about the azimuth as my current arm doesn't support azimuth adjustment. If the turntable support is properly levelled using spirit level, the azimuth normally falls into place without further adjustments. Of course the best is to have an arm that supports azimuth adjustability.
I guess this is the concluding part in my search for a good cartridge. At least for now and the foreseeable future as I seem to have found what I am looking for. It has been a long and lonely journey that one has to necessarily walk alone, wallet-draining but always fulfilling in the end.
All purchases were done blind since there was absolutely no way of auditioning them first (bought from across the seven seas). The seed that germinated the idea for a particular cart was either a good formal review, user reviews, or strong positive reference by someone who have heard it.
The parameters that were important to me are:
- very good resolution, since I believed that the rest of my chain has it but was being choked by the bottleneck in the cartridge.
- preferably neutral, but forgivable if it errs slightly on the warm side of neutral. I am certainly not looking for tubey warmth.
- must be necessarily musical
- fairly flat frequency response across the frequency spectrum
- must do micro and macro dynamics well
- as a bonus, if it does some crazy soundstaging stunts, I am OK
- I gave some thought to whether it is forgiving of bad records, but that is a secondary consideration.
- a match to my arm(s).
It turned out that not even a single cartridge turned out bad. Meaning I liked all of them. They are different. If one accepts that no one cartridge will ever do everything right, one is better placed to discover what will work best in one's setup. It is about choosing the strengths.
The journey of discovery had always been an exhilarating ride, certainly filled with the worry of uncertainty of how a cartridge might turn out in one's system, but also brimming with the joy of new discoveries and the joy of hearing new sounds for the first time in one's own setup.
So gentlemen, without further ado, please welcome the Decca/London Super Gold Moving Iron cartridge. For the technical minded, here's what the spec sheet says:
Specifications: London Super Gold
Type: Moving Iron cartridge for turntable
Frequency Response: 20 Hz to 22 kHz (+/-3dB)
Lateral Compliance: 15 x 10-6cm/dyne
Vertical Compliance: 10 x 10-6cm/dyne
Inductance: 130mH
DC Resistance: 2000 ohms
Input Loading: 47k and 100pF to 300pF, 33k and 220pF optimal
Output: 5mV at 5cm/s
Tracking Weight 1.5g to 2g, 1.8g optimal
The design of this cartridge is very different from that of a conventional cartridge. It doesn't have the usual cantilever that protrudes from the cartridge body at an angle. The cantilever more or less is flush to the underside of the cartridge body. The stylus shyly peeps out from the underside of the cartridge body, and protrudes by 1 mm or less. It also doesn't have a damping mechanism for the moving parts. It also has only three leads unlike the conventional 4 leads. Due to the lack of damping, the ideal tonearm for this cartridge is an unipivot arm with a damping mechanism but is known to work on mid and heavier arms too.
This review has a picture of the cartridge: http://hometheaterreview.com/london-super-gold-cartridge-reviewed/
This link has more user pictures and some "gory" pictures of the innards of the cartridge:
http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=545.0
Setup:
This cartridge reached me last Friday but due to various other things that occupied me, I could only unpack and fix it up last night. Being high-output MI, it works the same way as an MM. I have set the impedance loading at 50 K Ohms and capacitive loading of 200 pF. Tracking weight is currenty at 1.9 gms.
VTA is roughly same as Denon DL 103 = ZYX RS 30-02. To be able to use both ground leads of both channels, I need to make some sort of a Y splitter. Right now only one lead is in use but there is no hum and both channels play without issues. But I am not comfortable having one tonearm lead hanging limply so I will make a Y split soon when I can peel myself away from the music.
Sound: long story short - this is the best cartridge I have heard in my setup (not that I have heard too many).
The absence of damping makes the sound very immediate. Attacks are blazing fast, and decays nicely sustained. It does startling dynamics. Whatever it picks up from the groove is sent with the least attenuation (due to the absence of a damping mechanism) or degradation straight to the phono pre. The bass is better than whatever I have heard in my setup, not necessarily more, but better by being more tuneful. I am yet to hear a good cello track but I already have high hopes. The mid range is pure, meaning high fidelity to instrumental and vocal tones. Violin, piano and vocals take on a new lease of life. Another thing that comes out very well is the tonal harmonics. I can't wait to listen to my favourite sax tracks to hear the complex harmonics of this instrument. Highs and upper highs are beautifully rendered - liquid, airy and pristine.
But its greatest strength is the way it can separate the various voices into something you can follow individually. An offshoot of this quality is the way it places the various voices in their respective places in space even on complex musical passages.
And for the first time in my experience, the sound stage width expands beyond the tyranny imposed by the speakers. And soundstage depth is well layered too. All "mythical" qualities I had for long longed for in my system.
All in all a very fine cartridge. If I sound gushing, perhaps I am. It's that good.
Things to do: set proper VTA and tracking weight and make Y split. And play some bad records and warped records.
All purchases were done blind since there was absolutely no way of auditioning them first (bought from across the seven seas). The seed that germinated the idea for a particular cart was either a good formal review, user reviews, or strong positive reference by someone who have heard it.
The parameters that were important to me are:
- very good resolution, since I believed that the rest of my chain has it but was being choked by the bottleneck in the cartridge.
- preferably neutral, but forgivable if it errs slightly on the warm side of neutral. I am certainly not looking for tubey warmth.
- must be necessarily musical
- fairly flat frequency response across the frequency spectrum
- must do micro and macro dynamics well
- as a bonus, if it does some crazy soundstaging stunts, I am OK
- I gave some thought to whether it is forgiving of bad records, but that is a secondary consideration.
- a match to my arm(s).
It turned out that not even a single cartridge turned out bad. Meaning I liked all of them. They are different. If one accepts that no one cartridge will ever do everything right, one is better placed to discover what will work best in one's setup. It is about choosing the strengths.
The journey of discovery had always been an exhilarating ride, certainly filled with the worry of uncertainty of how a cartridge might turn out in one's system, but also brimming with the joy of new discoveries and the joy of hearing new sounds for the first time in one's own setup.
So gentlemen, without further ado, please welcome the Decca/London Super Gold Moving Iron cartridge. For the technical minded, here's what the spec sheet says:
Specifications: London Super Gold
Type: Moving Iron cartridge for turntable
Frequency Response: 20 Hz to 22 kHz (+/-3dB)
Lateral Compliance: 15 x 10-6cm/dyne
Vertical Compliance: 10 x 10-6cm/dyne
Inductance: 130mH
DC Resistance: 2000 ohms
Input Loading: 47k and 100pF to 300pF, 33k and 220pF optimal
Output: 5mV at 5cm/s
Tracking Weight 1.5g to 2g, 1.8g optimal
The design of this cartridge is very different from that of a conventional cartridge. It doesn't have the usual cantilever that protrudes from the cartridge body at an angle. The cantilever more or less is flush to the underside of the cartridge body. The stylus shyly peeps out from the underside of the cartridge body, and protrudes by 1 mm or less. It also doesn't have a damping mechanism for the moving parts. It also has only three leads unlike the conventional 4 leads. Due to the lack of damping, the ideal tonearm for this cartridge is an unipivot arm with a damping mechanism but is known to work on mid and heavier arms too.
This review has a picture of the cartridge: http://hometheaterreview.com/london-super-gold-cartridge-reviewed/
This link has more user pictures and some "gory" pictures of the innards of the cartridge:
http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=545.0
Setup:
This cartridge reached me last Friday but due to various other things that occupied me, I could only unpack and fix it up last night. Being high-output MI, it works the same way as an MM. I have set the impedance loading at 50 K Ohms and capacitive loading of 200 pF. Tracking weight is currenty at 1.9 gms.
VTA is roughly same as Denon DL 103 = ZYX RS 30-02. To be able to use both ground leads of both channels, I need to make some sort of a Y splitter. Right now only one lead is in use but there is no hum and both channels play without issues. But I am not comfortable having one tonearm lead hanging limply so I will make a Y split soon when I can peel myself away from the music.
Sound: long story short - this is the best cartridge I have heard in my setup (not that I have heard too many).
The absence of damping makes the sound very immediate. Attacks are blazing fast, and decays nicely sustained. It does startling dynamics. Whatever it picks up from the groove is sent with the least attenuation (due to the absence of a damping mechanism) or degradation straight to the phono pre. The bass is better than whatever I have heard in my setup, not necessarily more, but better by being more tuneful. I am yet to hear a good cello track but I already have high hopes. The mid range is pure, meaning high fidelity to instrumental and vocal tones. Violin, piano and vocals take on a new lease of life. Another thing that comes out very well is the tonal harmonics. I can't wait to listen to my favourite sax tracks to hear the complex harmonics of this instrument. Highs and upper highs are beautifully rendered - liquid, airy and pristine.
But its greatest strength is the way it can separate the various voices into something you can follow individually. An offshoot of this quality is the way it places the various voices in their respective places in space even on complex musical passages.
And for the first time in my experience, the sound stage width expands beyond the tyranny imposed by the speakers. And soundstage depth is well layered too. All "mythical" qualities I had for long longed for in my system.
All in all a very fine cartridge. If I sound gushing, perhaps I am. It's that good.
Things to do: set proper VTA and tracking weight and make Y split. And play some bad records and warped records.
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sachu888
Well-Known Member
I have read great things about this cart.Did you try it with CNC phono?
Regards,
Sachin
Regards,
Sachin
Hi Jls,
I really have not seen this cart ever but I really really like your description.
Great presentation!
Where did you get this cart from? which site/country and for how much? does it have a replaceable stylus?
Thanks & regards
I really have not seen this cart ever but I really really like your description.
Great presentation!
Where did you get this cart from? which site/country and for how much? does it have a replaceable stylus?
Thanks & regards
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Gerry_the_Merry
Well-Known Member
JLS, hats off to you for your drive, stamina and patience. I hope with this you have reached your destination.
CNC not yet started. Now I have a strong reason to complete it.
sachu888
Well-Known Member
You won't be disappointed
You have nice collection of Analog equipment.Regards,
Sachin
This is available new from a number of online sellers. I got mine off Lenco Heaven classifieds.
Stylus can be retipped by specialists. There is no user removable and field replacable replacement stylus for this cartridge.
To add: this cart has a nasty reputation for being unforgiving of less-than-perfect or warped records. I haven't got down to playing such records yet, but will give it a shot so that folks who might be interested will know.
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