One of the funny things about audio is that you only know that something (detail, resolution, imaging, etc) could be better, is when you actually hear it in your system, no matter how good that system was, in your experience, to begin with. Auditory memory is so short, and also imagining something better as an actual event is so difficult, that it makes it easy for the vast majority to live with whatever system they have without bothering about the need for an upgrade, We audionuts are blessed in some ways, but also cursed...
Comparing Shure M97xE and V15 Type III
- Thread starter jls001
- Start date
One of the blessings of listening to other people's setup is the opening up of one's ears to much better, cleaner, coherent, detailed and balanced sound. Secondly, one gets to know, and more often than not, like music that others like (which you are not yet familiar with).
I guess it was the later that did me in. I racked my brain as to why I wasn't able to hear the musical cues on a particularly nice track in my own system. It led me to question everything in the chain, but wasn't enough to pinpoint what could be wrong. It took an outsider, just a few seconds to identify the problem.
@Dr Bass: it is only now that I'm beginning to understand the potential of the Capitole. Earlier, when I had the Denon DL 160, my three sources were roughly equal - the TT had a slight edge when it came to sheer involvement, but the CDP can't be beaten for its tonal realism. My PC wasn't that far behind either and still puts up a spirited fight. Then the Kontrapunkt happened and decisively became king of the hill. Post the speaker repairs, the CDP is sounding so much better than before, once more laying a credible claim to the mole hill. Anyway, all this is no dilemma for me as I intend to have all three sources (as I have invested in lots of vinyl, as well as CDs, and my digital collection is also growing steadily).
Aaahh...I am relieved
.If the Capitole could replace a Reimyo it should be special but something was telling me that you were not as enthralled by the Capitole as expected, NOW you seem to be impressed
Aaahh...I am relieved
If the Capitole could replace a Reimyo it should be special but something was telling me that you were not as enthralled by the Capitole as expected, NOW you seem to be impressed
I am a slow guy
Some more updates on the cartridge: with more burn in time put in over the weekend, I am hearing greater clarity. Treble is still not the clearest but I guess its getting there. I was passively listening last night while catching up on the days newspaper, and was surprised to hear clearly - for the first time - the lyrics to this song:
Olivia Newton-John: 'Queen Of The Publication' (Invasion of Privacy). - YouTube
Once again, I strongly recommend that you pick up this Olivia Newton John album (Soul Kiss) on vinyl if ever you come across it. It is a reference grade recording with great music to boot.
Another area of improvement is in the mids. Snare drums have gained a new tonality and presence not heard before. Also, the synth intro in Alan Parsons Project's Limelight, which is an abrupt two notes series, that I like to think would look like a square wave on a spectrum analyser, has gained a beautiful tonality and the decay of the abrupt note lingers longer. Further, the silent spaces in between the notes seem blacker. This would indicate that the cartridge has a lower noise floor. This is borne out by the much less irritating ticks when I play my favourite Dire Straits album (Brothers In Arms) whose grooves I know is no longer the best due to over usage. Now I am seriously beginning to hear colours in the tones. I know, I know. Need to tighten a few screws here and there
I also suddenly realised that I have not spoken much about mids, starting from the Mx97E to V15 to DL 160. I guess that was because there was not much change in the performance of the mids as one progressed through these cartridges. The change always showed up most in the low and high frequencies. But the Kontrapunkt is a different animal. Mid frequency tones have taken a turbo rocket ride into outer space. It produces something which I'll glibly call tonal colour, if there is such a thing.
Olivia Newton-John: 'Queen Of The Publication' (Invasion of Privacy). - YouTube
Once again, I strongly recommend that you pick up this Olivia Newton John album (Soul Kiss) on vinyl if ever you come across it. It is a reference grade recording with great music to boot
.Another area of improvement is in the mids. Snare drums have gained a new tonality and presence not heard before. Also, the synth intro in Alan Parsons Project's Limelight, which is an abrupt two notes series, that I like to think would look like a square wave on a spectrum analyser, has gained a beautiful tonality and the decay of the abrupt note lingers longer. Further, the silent spaces in between the notes seem blacker. This would indicate that the cartridge has a lower noise floor. This is borne out by the much less irritating ticks when I play my favourite Dire Straits album (Brothers In Arms) whose grooves I know is no longer the best due to over usage. Now I am seriously beginning to hear colours in the tones. I know, I know. Need to tighten a few screws here and there
I also suddenly realised that I have not spoken much about mids, starting from the Mx97E to V15 to DL 160. I guess that was because there was not much change in the performance of the mids as one progressed through these cartridges. The change always showed up most in the low and high frequencies. But the Kontrapunkt is a different animal. Mid frequency tones have taken a turbo rocket ride into outer space. It produces something which I'll glibly call tonal colour, if there is such a thing.
Brief update: just for the heck of it, I tried 50K Ohms loading last night (I don't have 47k Ohm loading in my phono). Result is crystal clear highs. One example is is Dave Brubeck's Ronda a la Turk - the intro has a longish passage where the drummer strikes the cymbal continuously (on the right channel). The cymbal sound very clean, without any grit.
But there is a downside - all other frequencies seemed pushed back in the mix. Will listen to more records and decide if 50 k Ohms works for all.
Loading already tried - 59 Ohms (nearest to the recommeded value of 50 Ohms), 121 Ohms. I didn't hear a whole lot of difference using these two values.
But there is a downside - all other frequencies seemed pushed back in the mix. Will listen to more records and decide if 50 k Ohms works for all.
Loading already tried - 59 Ohms (nearest to the recommeded value of 50 Ohms), 121 Ohms. I didn't hear a whole lot of difference using these two values.
Joshua, I like experiments
You are probably right in saying 'other frequencies are pushed back', Not sure but extra resistance may be working has low pass filter. I did some experiments with an old TT and if I remember correctly Cranky (Former FM) said exactly same thing. Regards
I listened to other records and the 50 kilo ohms setting just didn't cut it. If a track is treble heavy, especially with very high frequency instruments like chimes or high-hats, those instruments sound heavenly but the rest of the mix was sounding recessed. Also, sax had too much bite. And the bass seems to have hibernated. Just didn't sound right.
Having read from an online seller that the recommended loading is 50 to 100 Ohms, and even upto 1000 Ohms for open highs, 1000 is what I am using now and it seems to be sounding much better.
Also, after setting up a fellow forumer's Heybrook TT2 last night with a Shure V15/III, I realised that my precious ProJect cartridge weighing tool is totally off. That, or I don't know how to use it correctly. I am hoping it's the latter.
Moreover, visually, the cantilever seems to be pressed too close to the cartridge body when playing. I raised the tonearm height a bit although I felt that the tonearm was already fairly level with the record surface, but still the cantilever seem to be still pressed too close. So without using a weighing scale, I slowly reduced the counterweight force and checked continuously if the cantilever is jutting out more proudly, making sure that the cartridge still rests on the record surface and not trying to swim mindlessly over the record surface when it is dropped. When I was confident that the tracking force seems to be in the ball park, I lowered the arm and was startled to hear the drastic improvement in the bass.
Moral of the story: have the right tools if you want to listen to vinyl, so I ordered a new electronic scale from here.
Having read from an online seller that the recommended loading is 50 to 100 Ohms, and even upto 1000 Ohms for open highs, 1000 is what I am using now and it seems to be sounding much better.
Also, after setting up a fellow forumer's Heybrook TT2 last night with a Shure V15/III, I realised that my precious ProJect cartridge weighing tool is totally off. That, or I don't know how to use it correctly. I am hoping it's the latter.
Moreover, visually, the cantilever seems to be pressed too close to the cartridge body when playing. I raised the tonearm height a bit although I felt that the tonearm was already fairly level with the record surface, but still the cantilever seem to be still pressed too close. So without using a weighing scale, I slowly reduced the counterweight force and checked continuously if the cantilever is jutting out more proudly, making sure that the cartridge still rests on the record surface and not trying to swim mindlessly over the record surface when it is dropped. When I was confident that the tracking force seems to be in the ball park, I lowered the arm and was startled to hear the drastic improvement in the bass.
Moral of the story: have the right tools if you want to listen to vinyl, so I ordered a new electronic scale from here.
Got the new digital jeweller's scale last night. No reference weight included. On switching on and allowing it to stabilise for some time, it shows a constant offset that varied from 0.03 to 0.05 grams and stabilised at 0.05 gm. So with that in mind, I measured my current tracking weight which turned out to be about 2 grams. So I was off "only" by 0.5 grams. Not too shabby for something set only visually. The surprising thing is even with a deficit of 0.5 gms it tracked beautifully.
Final tracking weight is now set to 2.55 gm which is effectively 2.5 gm, same as the manufacturer recommended weight of 2.5 gm.
Gerry_the_Merry
Well-Known Member
The pix look great.
Hi Joshua,
Very yummy pics of your cartridge! I love that green colour!
That old saying Nero fiddled while Rome burnt was probably cos he was fiddling with his turntable. Vinyl is old and has got good pedigree after all
On your jewellers scale you should have a SET button that will set the reference to 0. Else everytime you switch it on it will show around .2/.3 gms.
Regards
Shit happened - the ruby cantilever of my Kontrapunkt broke this morning.
Need to send it to the master retipper at Soundsmith, New York. Already got a Return Authorisation number.
Some silver lining in an otherwise gloomy day: a fellow forumer has kindly sold me his "like new" DL103 which I should hopefully receive today or tomorrow. I had always wanted to listen to this legendary cartridge ever since I ventured into analog.
More silver lining in the pipeline: another fellow forumer ran around the whole of Singapore to get me an Origin Live Encounter Mark III arm. This is a couple of classes above my current OL Silver Mark IIIa arm. Hopefully this should also reach me in the next few days.
Thank you so much, Santhosh. Your loss is my gain. Thank you for making it happen. I owe you one, big time.
And thanks to you too, Dr Bass, for accompanying Santhosh around town, running about on audio errands for a fellow forumer, sparing your very valuable time and energy.
Now, this reminds me that I need to complete my L75 build which has been left untended, uncared for, .... just waiting for the right arm.
Need to send it to the master retipper at Soundsmith, New York. Already got a Return Authorisation number.
Some silver lining in an otherwise gloomy day: a fellow forumer has kindly sold me his "like new" DL103 which I should hopefully receive today or tomorrow. I had always wanted to listen to this legendary cartridge ever since I ventured into analog.
More silver lining in the pipeline
: another fellow forumer ran around the whole of Singapore to get me an Origin Live Encounter Mark III arm. This is a couple of classes above my current OL Silver Mark IIIa arm. Hopefully this should also reach me in the next few days. Thank you so much, Santhosh. Your loss is my gain. Thank you for making it happen. I owe you one, big time.
And thanks to you too, Dr Bass, for accompanying Santhosh around town, running about on audio errands for a fellow forumer, sparing your very valuable time and energy.
Now, this reminds me that I need to complete my L75 build which has been left untended, uncared for, .... just waiting for the right arm.
Sorry to hear about the Kontrapunkt. Soundsmith retip is very good. Another silver lining is that now you have a choice of retips like a ruby cantilever with an Optimized Contour Nude Contact Line Diamond or so.
About the tonearm, you are welcome Joshua. I am glad I could be of help.
About the tonearm, you are welcome Joshua. I am glad I could be of help
.Got the Denon two days back but managed to fix it to the arm only this evening.
Sounds wonderful.
Having just demolished one good cartridge, I was extra careful not to break anything. Reminded me of the proverbial porcupines trying to enjoy conjugal rights (they did it carefully , of course:lol
.Mandatory glamour shots of the Denon DL103:
Front view:
By jls001 at 2012-08-16
Three Quarters:
By jls001 at 2012-08-16
Side:
By jls001 at 2012-08-16
I had to drastically lower the tonearm height (from the height suited to the Kontrapunkt c) to get correct VTA for the 103. I probably need to lower it a half mm or so.
I'd like to revise my preliminary opinion of "sounds wonderful" of last night, to "sounds amazing", as it continues to amaze and dazzle me with its tricks. This cartridge is a midrange champion. What it omits (compared to much costlier cartridges) is probably that last bit of refinement and extension at the frequency extremes. It is hard not to like the mid range. Now I understand the hullabaloo surrounding this legendary cartridge is not for nothing.
Front view:
By jls001 at 2012-08-16
Three Quarters:
By jls001 at 2012-08-16
Side:
By jls001 at 2012-08-16
I had to drastically lower the tonearm height (from the height suited to the Kontrapunkt c) to get correct VTA for the 103. I probably need to lower it a half mm or so.
I'd like to revise my preliminary opinion of "sounds wonderful" of last night, to "sounds amazing", as it continues to amaze and dazzle me with its tricks. This cartridge is a midrange champion. What it omits (compared to much costlier cartridges) is probably that last bit of refinement and extension at the frequency extremes. It is hard not to like the mid range. Now I understand the hullabaloo surrounding this legendary cartridge is not for nothing.
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