Denon DL 103 Cart

[Hiten]

Trying out cart looks difficult. They are thinnest hollow cantilever and could be easily sacrificed on mistake.

Yes you are right Om. Sorry got carried away. If stylus is delicate, no need to test by warped record method.

For proper setup HFN test record is good option too. Lots of testing material on record. Even resonance too. What is the weight of SL-23 tonearm ?

 

[mpw]

here are a few pics of my SL23 headshell, cart and tonearm

mpw

 

[omishra]

It's cartridge weight range is 3-8.5gm, headshell plus cart weight range is 13-17gm. So measure and adjust accordingly.

Weight towards higher side within range is not a problem but lower ranges give more trouble.

 

[omishra]

Yes you are right Om. Sorry got carried away. If stylus is delicate, no need to test by warped record method.

For proper setup HFN test record is good option too. Lots of testing material on record. Even resonance too. What is the weight of SL-23 tonearm ?

No sorry required brother. Your thoughts and suggestions are always precious.:thumbsup:

 

[jls001]

Guys,
Have you noticed the unbelievably low prices at which Denon DL 103s are being sold nowadays?:thumbsup:

Brand New Denon DL 103 Moving Coil MC Phono Cartridge DL103 Made in Japan | eBay

When I bought mine some years ago, the best price one could get was around US$ 220-225. And now it is selling for 130!:licklips:

Ditto 103R prices - what used to sell for nearly 400 is now selling for 225.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRAND-NEW-D...231?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20f96ecb2f


And a Denon DL 110 is now actually costlier than a 103:

Denon DL110 DL 110 High Output Moving Coil Phono Cartridge | eBay

Of course I don't know if there's a catch somewhere, as I haven't bought one personally from the above seller. Assuming everything is kosher and legit, it is probably the best time to invest in a 103R

 

[anilva]

Guys,
Have you noticed the unbelievably low prices at which Denon DL 103s are being sold nowadays?:thumbsup:

Brand New Denon DL 103 Moving Coil MC Phono Cartridge DL103 Made in Japan | eBay

When I bought mine some years ago, the best price one could get was around US$ 220-225. And now it is selling for 130!:licklips:

Ditto 103R prices - what used to sell for nearly 400 is now selling for 225.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRAND-NEW-D...231?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20f96ecb2f


And a Denon DL 110 is now actually costlier than a 103:

Denon DL110 DL 110 High Output Moving Coil Phono Cartridge | eBay

Of course I don't know if there's a catch somewhere, as I haven't bought one personally from the above seller. Assuming everything is kosher and legit, it is probably the best time to invest in a 103R

I bought a DL103 and Dl103R in the last few months at these new prices. They are absolutely legit and new. No problem. Go for it.

 

[sann]

I too got a 103 for my friend, from the same seller when the prices were dropping, and it is performing as a legitimate 103 should.

 

[kartick]

After checking out the latest prices of the DL-103r, I am very tempted to try it. I have always wanted to use it but due to budget constraints, I settled with the DL-110. DL-110 does the job really well and was a major upgrade from some random Audio Technica budget cart that was already on my TT when I bought it.

Can someone advise/comment, if DL-103r suit my TT's tonearm?? I use a Denon DP-37f TT.

 

[jls001]

The 103 needs a tonearm with effective mass of 18 grams or higher to work best. I've tried it on lighter 12 gram arm too and it works, though it wasn't the best match. Do figure out what is the effective mass of your arm to check its suitability.

 

[sunder]

Will this Denon DL 103R cart suitable to the arm of vintage Pioneer 518 Direct Drive player? Since this cartridge needs more weight and the cartridge itself has more weight: Is it good for the healthy life of the record 'Grooves'? Will the wear and tear increase? Phono experts, please share your experiences and ideas. Thank you.
Regards,
sunder.

 

[jls001]

Sunder, see post #29 above. It is possible to make your tonearm heavier by using headshell spacer of appropriate weight. Of course a heavier headshell end needs a heavier counterweight as well.

The 103 tracks at 2.5 grams. If set up correctly it does absolutely no harm to records. I've been using the 103 for years. No damage done to any record.

 

[sunder]

Sunder, see post #29 above. It is possible to make your tonearm heavier by using headshell spacer of appropriate weight. Of course a heavier headshell end needs a heavier counterweight as well.

The 103 tracks at 2.5 grams. If set up correctly it does absolutely no harm to records. I've been using the 103 for years. No damage done to any record.

jls001, adding spacer under the shell will make difference in arm level. Most of the TTs have no the facility to adjust the arm height like Technics 1200. The only option is to add weight on the headshell. Changing a heavier counterweight is not an easy thing to all kind of tonearms, isn't it? Please clarify. Thank you.

 

[kartick]

Hey Jls, you can check my TT here : Denon DP-37F Manual - 2-Speed Direct-Drive Turntable - Vinyl Engine

Is it feasible to have some mods done to the arm to make the DL-103r work?

 

[kartick]

Just read through the manual again and I quote from the Cartridge Replacement section, "A different cartridge with a weight between 4 and 9 g (including screws and nuts) can be attached to the head shell of this unit." Whereas when I move down to the Tonearm section, the suitable cartridge weight range states approx. 4-6 g (including screws and nuts). Quite contradictory. What it could mean is that although the arm can take carts weighing up to 9 g but suitable is if we limit it to 4-6 g weight range?

Is it safe to assume that this cart could still suite the arm?

 

[Fantastic]

The weight of the cartridge determines the low frequency resonance of the arm/cartridge combination. Typically below 10 Hz. You don't need to have an exact weight. Fluid damping is one thing that can help improve the resonance characteristics of the arm. Unfortunately you might have to experiment with that. It can bring up the low end and produce nice taut bass.
What you need to remember is that a heavier cartridge will lower the resonance and possibly enable low frequency noise ( rumble etc ) from coming through more easily. If you have a good rumble filter this shouldn't be an issue. Preferable to avoid any filters as they alter the phase response. But if your woofer cone is flapping around ( without any sound!) you do need a filter !

 

[jls001]

jls001, adding spacer under the shell will make difference in arm level. Most of the TTs have no the facility to adjust the arm height like Technics 1200. The only option is to add weight on the headshell. Changing a heavier counterweight is not an easy thing to all kind of tonearms, isn't it? Please clarify. Thank you.

If arm height adjustment is a problem, place the spacer on top of the headshell. You will need longer screws. It looks a bit unwieldy but will work perfectly.

 

[arj]

you can try a coin on top of the headshell with Bluetac as well.

 

[jls001]

@Kartick, do read through this thread.

http://www.hifivision.com/diy/47721-diy-tonearm-counterweight.html

I no longer remember the nitty gritty details, but I recall that the new counterweight that I had machined was 168 grams. Typically, the next lower weight is about 136 grams, and 106 grams below that. Your weight is very likely to be the last one. And very light arms (especially with carbon fiber arm tubes) typically have about 86 gram weights. I would suggest trying with both 136 and 168 gram.

The spacer weight is very subject to experimentation. I tried many different weights and finalized with about 9 gram mass for a resonance frequency of 8 Hertz.

It is probably worth mentioning is that it is best to have the counterweight as close as possible to the pivot and not further away. This reduces the moment of inertia (recall that it is a product of the actual mass and the distance of the mass from the fulcrum). Lower moment of inertia is desirable in a tonearm.

What is also worth mentioning is that to correctly determine the resonant frequency of the cart - arm combo, it is essential to use a test record that can help determine the resonance freq as there is no direct means to measure effective mass.

 

[jls001]

Just read through the manual again and I quote from the Cartridge Replacement section, "A different cartridge with a weight between 4 and 9 g (including screws and nuts) can be attached to the head shell of this unit." Whereas when I move down to the Tonearm section, the suitable cartridge weight range states approx. 4-6 g (including screws and nuts). Quite contradictory. What it could mean is that although the arm can take carts weighing up to 9 g but suitable is if we limit it to 4-6 g weight range?

Is it safe to assume that this cart could still suite the arm?

4-6 grams is the physical weight of the cartridge that can be balanced by the counterweight. For analogy, consider a see saw in the park with one small boy sitting at the end of one side, and one big boy sitting on the other side, not at the end but somewhere closer to the fulcrum. They achieve balance this way.

On cart-arm combo we need to additionally consider the compliance of the cart, because the effective mass of the arm together with the compliance determines the resonant frequency of the cart-arm combo.

Thumb rule is to pair low compliance cartridges with higher mass arms, and vice versa. Denon 103 is low compliance. You need high mass arm. Do let us know what is the effective mass of your arm. I would say if it's 12 grams and above, you can try weights to increase effective mass. If below, the gap is probably too much to bridge.

 

[kartick]

I have gone through the service manual fully and nowhere does it state the mass of the arm. I have read through various forums where people have discussed the possible usage of this cart on low mass arms, and everywhere has it been advised against.

I am not very well versed with the technical aspects of the TT, however, just a very crude idea, can we increase the mass of the arm uniformly by sticking some sort of a stain free scotch tape/some tape like the double sided tape, in a way that the multiple windings of the tape increases the mass? Maybe scotch tape is not such a good example but would any other substance which can be wrapped around the entire arm (from head shell to back) to increase its effective mass?