DIY Stands-Standanddeliver? i Stood, hope i delivered

[Asit]

Ali,

You are a very special person, I must say this. Through your efforts, you really have become a champion of sorts in a matter of a few months. I still remember trying to answer all sorts of questions from you about 2-channel amps at the beginning of the year. Then after some time we got to read your noob's thread on the budget speakers, your auditions and clarity of your observations were really enjoyable and really really useful for us.
(I also see you are quite an expert in car audio, but forgive me for saying this, you are wasting your talent there. How can one enjoy music seriously in a car? I have had some audio in all my cars, but I really don't care very much. I know you and perhaps many others wouldn't agree, sorry folks!)

Now, your stands! They are really stunning.

I am sure all of us are waiting to get the first pictures of your full set-up with the speakers on the stands. I sincerely hope your speakers give you back the care with which you have made the seats for these speakers.

All the best wishes! Also for your upcoming project in improving the source.

 

[magma]

Ali,

You are a very special person, I must say this. Through your efforts, you really have become a champion of sorts in a matter of a few months. I still remember trying to answer all sorts of questions from you about 2-channel amps at the beginning of the year. Then after some time we got to read your noob's thread on the budget speakers, your auditions and clarity of your observations were really enjoyable and really really useful for us.
(I also see you are quite an expert in car audio, but forgive me for saying this, you are wasting your talent there. How can one enjoy music seriously in a car? I have had some audio in all my cars, but I really don't care very much. I know you and perhaps many others wouldn't agree, sorry folks!)

Now, your stands! They are really stunning.

I am sure all of us are waiting to get the first pictures of your full set-up with the speakers on the stands. I sincerely hope your speakers give you back the care with which you have made the seats for these speakers.

All the best wishes! Also for your upcoming project in improving the source.

Asit sir
thank you very much for the kind words,
let me say im no champian, all that ive learnt is from members like you and others here.
i have found this forum warm ( just like my music) and feel at home and hence i love giving back
(i remember too asking you about recievrs and int amps . dont worry i will ask you a lot more in time)

Yes i should say a very special thank you to dinyaar too.i think he has almost personally tutored me.
the rest well ive learnt as i still audition equipment. i find thats the best way to learn.

on another note : i do understand your viewpoint on car audio
well i would completely agree that one cannot enjoy music as it should as compared to home audio
Actaully all my ICE buddies think ive gone old and crazy . However i do continue to be active there, since there is where most of my expereince lies.
car audio allows lot of kinds of installations ,DIY hence i love it cause it keeps me busy
im no expert in car audio too, ive just been exposed to it for longer
HOme audio is comparitevely new to me ( i am howver leaning towards building myself a DAC and modding it so i have something to do)

But Asit sir have you ever heard a pure SQ setup in a car
Something like Illusion carbon components driven by Steg amplification , an Isobaric sub and a high end source with time allignment

Most car audio has no soundstage but i do believe something of the above config has a beautiful sounstage.
its hard to belivv but i can wager money that this sounds better(detail clarity and sounstage) than an entry level stereo setup at home (yes maybe imaging would lack due to the hostile car environment)
nway thats another story


i hope to post a pic of the completed stands with my speaker soon.
do ping me if you need anything fabrication related.

well my source project will be long...
i wish to compare a good DAC with an Asus Xonar , there are folks who do believe that a good DAC or CDP(under 25k!) can trump these cards.
but i will actaully find ways to audition and review for myself.
Dinyaar ji has always offered his support on this


once again thak you very much for the encouragement

 

[dinyaar]

Ali if u were not into pumping iron i would have punched u for calling me dinyaar Jiiiii !!!!!!!

Your stands are superb. No other word for it. Much better than mine for sure and better than many stands i have seen from the biggies.

If u have the time u must make and sell these commercially. At least to the forum members for a start as and when there is a requirement. I am already getting u two guys who want a custom designed Granite/steel stand.

Regarding the sand just take a little more than u think u need. Better than running to chowpatty again. Frankly dont even bother doing this exercise at the moment. Just use as is and fill if needed after the rains.

Asit i am with u on the car audio scene. Earlier i liked having a good stereo in my cars but i have given up a long while ago. Now i basically accept what the vehicle comes with. Recently with the civic i changed the speakers but now i dont really know if i should have. Too late i guess. Reason i say this is i barely listen seriously anymore due to the crazy amount of phone calls on way to work and back. Plus fear of theft and many bad experiences have put me off.
Rgds

 

[Asit]

Dinyaar,

Thanks for letting me know that Ali is into pumping irons, because I was also thinking of punching him because he keeps calling me Asit ji, Asit Sir and God knows what else. BTW, I used to do weights on something called "Nautilus" when I was a student in the US, but I am 50 now and from all indications, Ali seems to be a whole lot younger.

On the subject of Ali's stands and marketing them, it all depends on him, because it's alright up to the point he makes a few of them occasionally on request from friends. Beyond that, good organisation and will to withstand some hassles associated with producing something on demand (not at your own leisure) is needed.

People on Indian streets, especially Kolkata streets take the word "free" out of the "free world" too seriously, as a result listening to music in car with any sort of attention is out of the question. I have do doubt, Ali, in-car-audio can be very very good (I am also a team BHP member, although I have not contributed there for the last 18 months or so), but how to make use of it in these streets? Sorry folks, for a bit of out of thread talk.

 

[GeorgeO]

Magma

Very well done and documented. I too did three diy stands but nowhere as well done as yours.

George

 

[magma]

thanks george
since i have also built another stand for a friend with SS plates

and also got some top plates machined for a fellow member here too.
hes happy hopefully

 

[keith_correa]

Hey Magma, maybe I'm missing something here but are the stands all done and put to use? If yes - Impressions? Does the "beard" make a difference? Final Pics?

 

[magma]

Hey Magma, maybe I'm missing something here but are the stands all done and put to use? If yes - Impressions? Does the "beard" make a difference? Final Pics?

stands are all done
they were put to use only for 1 day and then taken back to the factory
so no impressions
but dinyaar has seen the stands
he could comment on build quality and expected sound

you see i live in a ground floor house in mumbai.
My dad isa bit paranoid and when we got warnings of flooding this year due to some crazy high tides ( supposedly highest in 20 yrs) he made us all clear off the things that are not neccesary ( according to him) and take them to the factory for safe keeping.
hence my entire music rig is now undershrowds till end of august!

so final pics in august

keith
beard is not done because i need some more inputs about building it,
what exactly makes a beard?
would an acrylic sheet of same width as my speaker qualify as a beard?

P.S my next build project is starting pretty soon.
hopefully inputs from you guys will help immensely
its gonna be a music source

 

[keith_correa]

beard is not done because i need some more inputs about building it,
what exactly makes a beard?
would an acrylic sheet of same width as my speaker qualify as a beard?

Magma, this is what Brian Cheney of VMPS says about a beard - "A "beard" installed on the front of the stand, top to floor, vastly improves the sound. Almost any material will work, even cardboard. It's puzzling that manufacturers turn out open frame stands at all. The cavity below the woofer destroys bass response, as Paul Klipsch pointed out 35 years ago. Adding a front baffle the same width as the speaker and extending from the top of the stand to the floor gives the bass a boundary to travel along and increases efficiency below 100Hz up to 6 dB."
So the answer to your question is right there.

Also see references to the beard here in a review of a VMPS speaker. That review says this about the "beard":
"The bass response of the 626JR [the speaker under review] is deeper, and has more punch when the extended front baffle is in place. The extended baffle optimizes bass performance by creating a path for the driver to couple to the floor room boundary. In essence the beard bestows the primary advantage that a floor standing speaker has over a stand mounted one."

The VMPS site has a pic showing the "beard" on a stand. See this here.

 

[magma]

Magma, this is what Brian Cheney of VMPS says about a beard -
The VMPS site has a pic showing the "beard" on a stand. See this here.

thaks you very much keith
thats all i needed

hmm
now to find some nice vinear.

 

[psychotropic]

oh wow, is this a commonly held view? becuase i do remember reading on the Harbeth site that they recommend nothing at all around the speakers including below. anyone tried out/compared beards and non-bearded stands?

Magma, this is what Brian Cheney of VMPS says about a beard - "A "beard" installed on the front of the stand, top to floor, vastly improves the sound. Almost any material will work, even cardboard. It's puzzling that manufacturers turn out open frame stands at all. The cavity below the woofer destroys bass response, as Paul Klipsch pointed out 35 years ago. Adding a front baffle the same width as the speaker and extending from the top of the stand to the floor gives the bass a boundary to travel along and increases efficiency below 100Hz up to 6 dB."
So the answer to your question is right there.

Also see references to the beard here in a review of a VMPS speaker. That review says this about the "beard":
"The bass response of the 626JR [the speaker under review] is deeper, and has more punch when the extended front baffle is in place. The extended baffle optimizes bass performance by creating a path for the driver to couple to the floor room boundary. In essence the beard bestows the primary advantage that a floor standing speaker has over a stand mounted one."

The VMPS site has a pic showing the "beard" on a stand. See this here.

 

[magma]

oh wow, is this a commonly held view? becuase i do remember reading on the Harbeth site that they recommend nothing at all around the speakers including below. anyone tried out/compared beards and non-bearded stands?

physcho
i may be wrong but inist harbeth an exception to the rule in this case
i think harbeth makes lossy stands for thier speakers.
their speakers are designed to work with such stands as you describe

 

[magma]

cranky
thanks for the vinear options

as you stated the bafle wont be a permanent addition.
since all it involves is a venear sheet it willl be a nice experiment.
i think i might have some vinear lying around
although i think it only 3-4mm thick and has a real gody leapord skin design
(will 3mm-4mm do?)

however good enough for experiemnt.
if i like ill get some nice vinear

 

[magma]

hello all

please do forgive me for taking so much time on the beard.
im a bit pre occupied currently but will get around to doing it soon

ALso i have several requests for stands and
also a few requests for pointers

here are some more pointers



first off if you actaully put any readymade stand on a scale you willsee they weigh only 5-6kgs unfilled including the warfedale and Aad stands
sand accounts for another 5kgs

stands i have experimneted with various materials
glass is an absolute no no.
i have used SS and MS pillars and MS and granite top plates. any combination works well

ALL ready made branded stands use either MS glass combo or all MS combo.

My general rules to build the top plate to the exact same size of the speaker base.
though if you notice branded stands build the top plate much smaller so as to accomodate various speaker sizes
now if you are going custom you should not do that as its a compromise on the bass and accuracy

now the bottom plate needs to be at least 1.25-1.5 inches larger than the top plate in all lateral dimns.
thickness of top plate minimum 4mm though i take 6mm for MS
thickness of bottom plate 10 mm-12mm

granite 10 mm for top plate and 16mm for bottom is fine
however i always go overboard and use 16mm - though im just crazy.

you can use the spikes ive used for levelling.that takes care of uneven floor issues
even my stands or on the tiles.
what i did was get 1SQft of wall to wall carpet, stick 5mm rubber shet below the carpet with SPEB7
now this forms a lovely place to put your speaker stands with spikes.
the spikes pierce the carpet and perce half wat into the rubber too which is a perfect base.
rubber feet on metal bottom plate is not as advisable.



as for isolation pads

just use the 3m silicon pads that came with your speaker
if you have children inthe house then blue tac ( bostic version imported only) are the best isolaters and also keep your speakers firmly secureed to the stand

cable management
i can tellyou how to incorporate inthe stands,however after experince i advice against it
since living in mumbai you need to be a bit fluid considering kamwalibai and stuff!
cable mangement removes flexibilty of movement and cleaning etc

hope i have answered all your queries
you can get back to me anytime
reagurds
Ali

 

[magma]

hello all
many of you helped and encouraged me as i built my 1st pair of stands
here
Picasa Web Albums - khuzema - DIY Bookshelf...
( i thank you all for that)




Now i feel the need to build another set
Partly because i require shorter length and partly because im bored and i have an itch

here is the piccassa link where i will update all photos

Picasa Web Albums - khuzema - Stands 2



i humbly ask again for your valuable help and suggestions
Dinyaar "ji" as ever has been instrumental once again in laying down the foundation i hope he finds time to oversee my work this time too
brainstorming with sangram sir has also been a help in knowing some fundamentals

i havent decdided on anything other than what you see in the pics

the concept is a 2 column stand
2 Aluminium sand filled pillars that are bolted to Steel top and bottom plates using inserts that are 1st press fitted then bolted and lastly tack welded to the Al pillars so that they are absoultely perpendicular and form a strong joint

We have tried to keep the CG as low as possible , hence we have opted for a 1 inch steel base so the stand is made bottom heavy
this provides additional stability and makes the stand dificult to topple even with a gently push ( a kind of child proofing for me )

Also notice the wide area over which the spike feet will be positioned
This is ofcourse for stability


the current pics are only of the raw material that has been profile cut
Polishing and coatings will soon follow

im in two minds whether i should use the steel acrylic sandwich as used by cranky or not (for the top and bottom plates)
would like some inputs on that

Also both dinyaar and cranky have insited that the spikes should be adjustable from the top
currently i cant think of a design ( to fabricate ) for the top knob
would appreciate some help on that too

 

[grubyhalo]

Looks like you off to a good start, will be following your build pretty close. Good luck!

 

[magma]

yes but cant go thicker than 3.0mm
this section is already a specialised one
they dont make them any thicker in rectangular or square sections

i assumed it will be fine since most branded stands use 16-14 gauge(just under 2mm) MS or Aluminium pillars including the likes of B&w
i think even B&W top end stands use 2.5 mm aluminum section

 

[dinyaar]

Hi Ali,
Well its pretty close so good.
The proportions of the base are a bit different, as in the 'feet' seem much smaller. Is this a deliberate change?
Supposing u fill the hollow aluminium verticals with solid wood? I wanted to try this but after my last DIY Granite stand disaster I just junked the idea.
I saw the new B&W 800 series stand & its a huge improvement on my stands. I just dont know how they get that finish. A friend just got an usher speaker alongwith the stand and that too is beautiful. Apart from the Marble base what is practical is the adjustable height.
Spikes being adjusted from the top seems more practical & more precise IMO. Its a headache for me currently as I have to sleep on the floor and level the stand as the check nut is not reachable otherwise.
Anyway have moved back into my own apt so drop in whenever. U can check out my new AV rack too. Went overboard and now i cant move the unit (once loaded) even an inch!!!!
Rgds

 

[Asit]

Anyway have moved back into my own apt so drop in whenever. U can check out my new AV rack too. Went overboard and now i cant move the unit (once loaded) even an inch!!!!

Hi Dinyaar,

Please put up pictures of your new rack and set-up.

Good luck on your new project, Ali.

Regards.

 

[magma]

was thinking of getting a cylindrical knob fabricated
cant seem to find a stand where to copy from

dinyaar
the dimensions are exactly the same as the B&W stand with respect to the spike positioning
the breath is actually 3/4inch wider than your stands
the 4 projections of the feet are made slightly slimmer as you have noticed. i liked this proportion better