Do I really need an " Audio Grade Network Switch "?

[venkatcr]

Since we can more or less agree that our knowledge is not complete, wouldn't it be stifling scientific curiosity and research if an observable or reported phenomenon (by some) is disbelieved, nay attacked and burnt at the stake on the basis that current scientific knowledge is incapable, inadequate or insufficient to understand it?

I am at least ready to listen to you if you theorize it and prove it within the current scope and understanding of science.

And what does the other side do? Just the opposite! The stand has always been - I hear it, you dont. So whatever you say, or measure is meaningless. And what do you hear? Well you must be born with golden ears to hear what I hear. And what I hear is outside the capability of your measuring instruments. Your instruments are trash and you measuring system is itself flawed. Blind tests are meaningless. Everything other than what I say is meaningless.

What is the value of your observed and reported phenomenon when you cannot help others understand? What is the value when you take a stand that says, I am different and you have to just believe what I say? You have to spend 1000s of dollars on a high end equipment that plays music magically different from others, just because I say so. You dismiss everything else and all supporting evidence as trash. It is always my way or the highway.

The highway it is. At least for a vast majority of us.

Cheers

 

[surfatwork]

I guess the only way to guarantee perfect music is to go to recording studio where the song was originally recorded and get the singer/band to perform live for you. But doing that for every song you want to listen to could become a little inconvenient. But it's a great way to remove all the various nasties that contaminate the music like hifi power cables, hard disks, jitter, Spotify and yes, the latest bug bear, those pesky noisy network switches.

 

[nandac]

Based on input from naim forum I bought an old cisco catalyst 2960-cg on ebay for like 30 dollars. Seemed to suck the life out of the music - but was assured that that was the "correct sound". I once took it off to switch amps but did not bother to put it back.

 

[sbg]

No.


...There have been instances in this forum where in some of the responses make me wonder that they all listen on a speaker that has drivers where in the voice coil is just hovering over an EVENT HORIZON. Extremely sensitive speakers! for Extremely Sensitive Ears and everything in between both the ears.

Looks like I too, being in the IT industry for well over 2 decades- almost 3 now, wondering , it's a miracle!
...I got to go for a refresher again. will start with Parity Check.

 

[Enkay78]

The utter NO SENSE of audiophoolery is mind boggling.


I bet next on the line will be
Audiophile grade code for the audiophile apps - eg Roon more audiophiliac than Foobar etc. (Probable argument can be execution of these codes causes RF generation due to CPU cycles and hence adds analog noise in the execution of the bits of the decoding stream)

And yes audiophile grade processors (not OPamps/audio chips) Intel/AMD/ARM processors.

 

[sbg]

...And yes audiophile grade processors (not OPamps/audio chips) Intel/AMD/ARM processors.

... SOC .
one can wait for this too. This is most likely to happen or should already be there but we are looking elsewhere.

 

[drkrack]

My experience has been interesting. I don't use an audiophile switch but I found a subtle nuance when I started using an LPS to power my switch. I have an HDPLEX Linear Power Supply which had a spare rail available.

The probable reason for that is that the standard power supplies that come with these switches are noise prone. Switching to a LPS cleaned up the notes on the top. Noticeable on piano and guitar i.e. wherever you have transients. I did this a few years ago but these are what I can recall from memory.

So in answer to your question - you definitely don't need to use an audiophile switch but they do offer some improvements. Some may have issues with the ridiculous pricing but check their implementation and see if they are using quality parts. Most suppliers offer a return window so if you don't like the gear you can always send it back.



.

For me adding a LPSU to Desktop Switch added the heft (Read Density) to Vocals , Guitars and Piano etc. And it is never going back after this. The Density is the missing thing which is severely lacking in Digital Sources, which is quite granted with analog sources like Vinyl etc. R2R DACs add this much needed heft at the compromise of resolution , which gets better with higher models of R2R iterations.

Some audiophile switches (actually its an upgraded regular consumer switch ) like PPA Linksys 8 ports TCXO audiophile switch add TCXO clock to the desktop switch, without altering the Power supply unit (like adding a LPSU) , though they too recommend adding a LPSU in the description. I don't know how adding a Clock will change help to bring about a incremental SQ because ultimately the master clock in the DAC (or DDC) will supersede all others I believe . Any thoughts or experiences anyone can share ?

Meanwhile I upgraded the switch to a Spare router with LPSU and found a subtle improvement . I am looking to upgrade to a SFP(Fiber Optic Based connection ) desktop switch , I will need a converter on one side and a desktop switch with SFP input on the Other side . any one has been using them & any Product recommendations ? I believe @bornfi posted about SFP upgrade few months ago . Anyone with Tech Knowledge will be able to help here ( I don't want to end up with incompatible devices ).

 

[bornfi]

Meanwhile I upgraded the switch to a Spare router with LPSU and found a subtle improvement . I am looking to upgrade to a SFP(Fiber Optic Based connection ) desktop switch , I will need a converter on one side and a desktop switch with SFP input on the Other side . any one has been using them & any Product recommendations ? I believe @bornfi posted about SFP upgrade few months ago . Anyone with Tech Knowledge will be able to help here ( I don't want to end up with incompatible devices ).

Basically, there are two types of converters, one with SFP module built-in and the other one just has the SFP module slot. If you buy the latter, make sure you buy exactly same SFP modules.

The one with built-in module looks like this.



The one where you can plug-in SFP module looks like this.



The SFP module.

SFP module



If you already have a switch that has slot for SFP module, then you can simply buy one converter that can take SFP module and as I stated above, buy exactly same pair of SFP modules.

 

[drkrack]

Basically, there are two types of converters, one with SFP module built-in and the other one just has the SFP module slot. If you buy the latter, make sure you buy exactly same SFP modules.

The one with built-in module looks like this.

View attachment 67194

The one where you can plug-in SFP module looks like this.

View attachment 67195

The SFP module.

SFP module

View attachment 67196

If you already have a switch that has slot for SFP module, then you can simply buy one converter that can take SFP module and as I stated above, buy exactly same pair of SFP modules.

Thanks for the detailed reply.
I don't have any Desktop Switch or Adapter currently. I plan to Connect my Orbi Router to Desktop Switch at my HT Room (25mtrs). As I understand I need to buy a Sfp converter at Orbi Router end and a Desktop Switch which accepts SFP connections and provides at least 4 LAN Ports, at HT Room end.

Will it be possible to help me out with What adapter and What Desktop switch I need to buy in order to get a best VFM option to achieve this? Any links would be great. Planning to keep the expenses under 20k INR.

 

[Nikhil]

For me adding a LPSU to Desktop Switch added the heft (Read Density) to Vocals , Guitars and Piano etc. And it is never going back after this. The Density is the missing thing which is severely lacking in Digital Sources, which is quite granted with analog sources like Vinyl etc. R2R DACs add this much needed heft at the compromise of resolution , which gets better with higher models of R2R iterations.

I had an interesting experience this past week that led me to revisit this subject.

I upgraded my router (Linksys Dual-Band AX5400 WiFi 6 EasyMesh™ Router) and was pretty happy with the new fast speeds especially on my wifi. My audio rig, on the other side of the room, is connected to my router via CAT7 cable connected to a D-Link gigabit ethernet switch. The ethernet switch is powered by an HDPlex LPS after I found that it made a difference along the lines you mention.

After installing the new router I started getting pops and clicks in my setup. Not just that but noticeable breakup of transients. At first I thought the tubes in my DAC had gone bad so I tried changing the tubes but to no avail. I tried taking the DAC out from the chain but even that did not solve the issue. Completely stumped, I only got an idea what was going when some folks had similar issues on another forum. The solution given was to power cycle the entire network - router, switch, audio server etc. That's when I realized that I could have a bottleneck at my switch. The new router was an order of magnitude faster than my previous router causing packet collisions and data loss at the switch.

I got a decent ethernet switch which was manufactured relatively recently. Picked up a TP Link (TL-SG108S 8-Port Desktop Gigabit Ethernet Switch). Installed the switch and the pops & clicks disappeared immediately. However I could immediately hear the difference at the top end of any transient note. I wouldn't call it harsh but after connecting the switch to my LPS I could immediately hear the clarity at the top. Piano notes were clear with texture and detailed sustain. Cymbals and high hats were noticeably clearer.

I also noted that switch power quality affected streaming quite noticeably. If you are streaming, I would highly recommend looking at the power quality of your network devices. The sound noticeably clears up in the HF area where transients get mudied with poor quality power.



.

 

[Nikhil]

I don't have any Desktop Switch or Adapter currently. I plan to Connect my Orbi Router to Desktop Switch at my HT Room (25mtrs). As I understand I need to buy a Sfp converter at Orbi Router end and a Desktop Switch which accepts SFP connections and provides at least 4 LAN Ports, at HT Room end.

The TP Link Jetstream desktop switch comes with SFP ports:

https://www.amazon.in/8-Port-Pure-Gigabit-Man-Switch-1000Mbps/dp/B005KTM2M0/ref=psdc_1375427031_t2_B078LW6B9F

.

 

[hemanth.hg]

I had an interesting experience this past week that led me to revisit this subject.

I upgraded my router (Linksys Dual-Band AX5400 WiFi 6 EasyMesh™ Router) and was pretty happy with the new fast speeds especially on my wifi. My audio rig, on the other side of the room, is connected to my router via CAT7 cable connected to a D-Link gigabit ethernet switch. The ethernet switch is powered by an HDPlex LPS after I found that it made a difference along the lines you mention.

After installing the new router I started getting pops and clicks in my setup. Not just that but noticeable breakup of transients. At first I thought the tubes in my DAC had gone bad so I tried changing the tubes but to no avail. I tried taking the DAC out from the chain but even that did not solve the issue. Completely stumped, I only got an idea what was going when some folks had similar issues on another forum. The solution given was to power cycle the entire network - router, switch, audio server etc. That's when I realized that I could have a bottleneck at my switch. The new router was an order of magnitude faster than my previous router causing packet collisions and data loss at the switch.

I got a decent ethernet switch which was manufactured relatively recently. Picked up a TP Link (TL-SG108S 8-Port Desktop Gigabit Ethernet Switch). Installed the switch and the pops & clicks disappeared immediately. However I could immediately hear the difference at the top end of any transient note. I wouldn't call it harsh but after connecting the switch to my LPS I could immediately hear the clarity at the top. Piano notes were clear with texture and detailed sustain. Cymbals and high hats were noticeably clearer.

I also noted that switch power quality affected streaming quite noticeably. If you are streaming, I would highly recommend looking at the power quality of your network devices. The sound noticeably clears up in the HF area where transients get mudied with poor quality power.



.

@Nikhil , Thanks a lot for the information, I will try adding a switch along with cat7 cables. Any suggestions on the alternatives for HDPlex LPS?

 

[Nikhil]

Thanks a lot for the information, I will try adding a switch along with cat7 cables. Any suggestions on the alternatives for HDPlex LPS?

CAT7 hasn't really become a common standard. You will be just fine with CAT6A as well.

An LPS is complete overkill for a switch. I just happened to have a spare rail available on the HDPlex which I used for the switch. Just see what you can get on the market for a clean power in place of the standard supply SMPS that they come with. For a simple experiment you could just use a simple battery clip.


.

 

[drkrack]

I also noted that switch power quality affected streaming quite noticeably. If you are streaming, I would highly recommend looking at the power quality of your network devices. The sound noticeably clears up in the HF area where transients get mudied with poor quality power.

My source is mostly streaming via Tidal & Qobuz with Roon Core for 1 TB Flac/DSD on NAS. I Have Netgear Orbi Mesh router connected to 5 Port TP Link Desktop Switch; all routers are powered by LPSU including the Desktop switch, Power is via dedicated line , Servo stab and Online UPS - Cleaner Power definitely improves the SQ especially by making the background Dark.
did you try Cat8 Cables , i found them better resolving .

The TP Link Jetstream desktop switch comes with SFP ports:
https://www.amazon.in/8-Port-Pure-G.../B005KTM2M0/ref=psdc_1375427031_t2_B078LW6B9F

thanks for the device link , i will explore the pros and cons , this looks like a L2 Managed desktop switch, I was looking for unmanaged one. Nevertheless at the price point it is quite a compelling choice. My Understanding is that I will need two SFP Modules, LAN to Optical Converter at Router end, This Desktop switch and 25m Optical Fiber . Lets see

 

[Nikhil]

did you try Cat8 Cables , i found them better resolving .

Have not tried CAT8. Must give it a try when I get a chance.
Although the 30m limit might be a restriction in my case but will have to check.


.

 

[jls001]

Nordost's new Ethernet switch.

 

[Enkay78]

Wow....hahahaha....


Thank God I am not an audiophile.

Some people do have tons of money to burn. I am so mighty jealous of these guys.

 

[bornfi]

Thanks for the detailed reply.
I don't have any Desktop Switch or Adapter currently. I plan to Connect my Orbi Router to Desktop Switch at my HT Room (25mtrs). As I understand I need to buy a Sfp converter at Orbi Router end and a Desktop Switch which accepts SFP connections and provides at least 4 LAN Ports, at HT Room end.

Will it be possible to help me out with What adapter and What Desktop switch I need to buy in order to get a best VFM option to achieve this? Any links would be great. Planning to keep the expenses under 20k INR.

I would recommend buying two of these to stay away from complication of choosing the SFP modules. There is a less pricey version of this too that supports speed of up to 100 Mbps while this one supports up to 1 Gbps. I would also recommend that contact the seller and buy only if he/she can provide appropriate fiber cable too.

https://www.amazon.in/TP-Link-MC210CS-Gigabit-Single-Mode-Converter/dp/B003CFATKQ/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1Q0M7REKDISH1&keywords=ethernet%2Bto%2Bfiber&qid=1645020973&sprefix=ethernet%2Bto%2Bfibe%2Caps%2C173&sr=8-3&th=1

 

[abhi80]

In one word No!!

Been in the N/W industry for 25 years. There is no such sub category.

Cheers,
Raghu

Thanks Raghu, you saved me 60k man.. Gratitude..

 

[air870]

Just like many components in a hifi system, there is a addiction for the holy grail. After a point it's a case of diminishing returns. Factors like your age ( related to frequency) , the quality of your set up, your room, cables/ connectors etc all play a role in your listening experience. Many snakeoil solutions are out on the market. It's a never-ending debate. If you have researched and are convinced that a switch will make a difference in your setup , go for it. It just might be psychological. If you can borrow and audition a audiophile switch ( SOTM etc) it would be an ideal scenario. All the best