Effects of speaker placement & Room treatment

[rajesh srinivas]

I hope you will forgive me if I do not pursue this discussion with you further.

ciao
gr

ok keep the discusssion going on until you find a solution like the way you want,my duty was to inform you following or rejecting them is your headache.

I am simply not worthy of your wisdom

its not wisdom those are proven facts...


i am singing off from this thread..

bi
r.s

 

[raghupb]

No need to sign off Rajesh.
Readers will either try out or not try out suggestions made by fellow FMs based on their individual needs/means/opportunities.
Keep sharing your experiences old or new for the benefit of the forum.

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[rajesh srinivas]

I have a follow-up question.

When should one work on sub-woofer placement for a typical home theatre in a living/bedroom.

Should it be when you have all the furniture/decor placement done? But then you would not want to drill holes in your wall to draw subwoofer wire.

sub woofer placement must done when you have placed all your furniture/decor but these things should be of minimum quantity that is required for the room,too many leads to some sort of absorption.

you are right by later placement the need will be to redo the part of wall for sub wiring,but you can certainly run the cable in the corners of the wall with carpet on them or use cable casing...

thanks
r.s

 

[Deleted member 79034]

No need to sign off Rajesh.
Readers will either try out or not try out suggestions made by fellow FMs based on their individual needs/means/opportunities.
Keep sharing your experiences old or new for the benefit of the forum.

Cheers,
Raghu

+1 on that.

sub woofer placement must done when you have placed all your furniture/decor but these things should be of minimum quantity that is required for the room,too many leads to some sort of absorption.

you are right by later placement the need will be to redo the part of wall for sub wiring,but you can certainly run the cable in the corners of the wall with carpet on them or use cable casing...

thanks
r.s

Got it. Thanks!

 

[SwaroopKS]

Hi Raghu,

Please count me in as well

Thanks
Satya

sidvee/prem,

Prem has veered me into a confluence of 2 of my interests. Will definitely keep you guys in the loop. Don't worry about the costs.
I may not be able to get to experimenting anytime soon. Work pressure will be crazy over the next few months.

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[SwaroopKS]

Hi Prem,

Are these like the sugar cubes of Franck by any chance?

Thanks
Satya

Hi Sidvee

The rosewood cubes cost next to nothing. I think Magma made a few for himself. I had sent him the dimensions and the pictures. You could request him to make you a few. Use it only on Windows. Not on fixed mirrors. You can place one cube on each window pane. Try both top right and left hand corners to see which sounds better. If window panes are behind speakers use two hole facing up. If panes in front of speakers use one hole facing up

 

[prem]

Yes. They are Francks design. The resonators are also his. I have been using his cables, resonators and other room treatment devices for quite some time now

 

[SwaroopKS]

I did read some great deal about his designs but did not get a chance to witness them in person. Also cost factor meant I could not try them right now. Will check with Magma once.

I have two big windows in the new audio room I am planning, one behind listening position and one to side. I think these may make a big difference.

Yes. They are Francks design. The resonators are also his

 

[prem]

SwaroopKS, you can use two rosewood cubes, one each for each window. Do not use more than one cube for one window pane. The cubes will cost you less than Rs 50 if you get them made

 

[sash]

This is killing me guys. Where do i find more information about these rosewood cubes? I have a carpenter shop nearby that exclusively deals with rosewood - i could try stuff. Do you think a HT setup could benefit too? My gear is HT specific

 

[RajithKumar]

Its very interesting to read this thread and about the rosewood cubes & Franck Tchang resonators.Some body can share the photos of this rosewood cubes ,and its placement.

 

[keith_correa]

Guys, please be aware that there are 2 species of trees - Dalbergia sissoo and Dalbergia latifolia. The wood of both these trees are interchangeably called Indian rosewood depending on the seller. One might work better/differently than the other. This is J. F. Y. I.

And as far as my memory goes, from what I'd read, Franck said that the resonator cubes work not just on glass panes but also on walls and other surfaces.

 

[prem]

Keith, I am not sure they work on walls in India. Our walls are rigid unlike American and European homes. For the cubes to work the surface in which they are attached need to vibrate. For example you will not attach it to a mirror cemented to a wall but you could if it's not, assuming the bass notes are powerful enough to vibrate it. Franck uses a 2400 watt amp. One needs to keep that in mind

 

[keith_correa]

Keith, I am not sure they work on walls in India. Our walls are rigid unlike American and European homes. For the cubes to work the surface in which they are attached need to vibrate. For example you will not attach it to a mirror cemented to a wall but you could if it's not, assuming the bass notes are powerful enough to vibrate it. Franck uses a 2400 watt amp. One needs to keep that in mind

Prem, I do not think it's just for largely vibrating/resonating surfaces - he claims that one of the ways these work is by converting pressure to tension or tension to pressure [I do not quite care which because both boggle my mind. . Not that I'm dissing this because I will not form an opinion unless I have experienced it (not)working]. What you say also may be correct because it may work better on vibrating surfaces. And, he having a 2400 W amp is besides the point because I do not think wattage has got anything to do with the way these work. Example: One of the claims is also that they "filter out ambient noise". If these work, I think it will work ONLY by experimenting with different positions which will be room dependent - I'm sure he provides a starting point of positioning them or a method to this "madness"

BTW, what I have learnt [may not have experienced it though] is that EVERYTHING vibrates - the intensity differs and the resonant frequency of vibration differs.

Now as for more information on the Indian rosewood - I had just stepped out of the house and coincidentally I met a carpenter that I know for long. I asked him about "sheesham" and he told me that there are multiple varieties available and he knows of at least four. Says that the ones sourced from U.P. are most common and have a very visible grain. The one from Nepal he says is the best and has faint visible grain but the raw wood is very dark. The inexpensive ones are the un-cured ones and the "rawness" is disguised by polishing. If properly cured, he says the raw sheesham will be dark and dense. Now this is what he told me so people, don't flame me if this information is incorrect.

I have half a mind to correspond with Franck and see if he can help us DIY these cubes - maybe I will if I recover from the holiday hangover

 

[prem]

Keith, I have experimented with these cubes for a few years. Apart from window panes have never been able to make them work elsewhere. A 2400 watt amp can generate a high spl which can probably create a lot of vibration. The rosewood cubes actually damp the sound. By damping I guess they cut out high frequency ringing. But you have to be very careful how you use it with the resonators.

He actually recommends using the rosewood cubes as a 16 square grid separated by 70mm with the 17th cube and a diffuser acting as a central equaliser. They were designed for that purpose. Using it on a window pane is a side benefit. The 16 cube grid is made on the wall behind the speakers. He sells the cubes as a package of 17 with the diffuser. He doesn't sell them in ones or twos

 

[keith_correa]

Keith, I have experimented with these cubes for a few years. Apart from window panes have never been able to make them work elsewhere..

Oh, OK, so if you have practical experience then you know best for your room...

A 2400 watt amp can generate a high spl which can probably create a lot of vibration..

Yes, if you play them LOUD!!! But then, a 100 watter will also generate an alarming amount of SPL. Point is, for normal listening, most will almost never listen at that SPL which makes the wattage a moot point.

The rosewood cubes actually damp the sound. By damping I guess they cut out high frequency ringing. But you have to be very careful how you use it with the resonators

You're probably right about damping. I thought they do more. I really do not know for sure.

He actually recommends using the rosewood cubes as a 16 square grid separated by 70mm with the 17th cube and a diffuser acting as a central equaliser. They were designed for that purpose. Using it on a window pane is a side benefit. The 16 cube grid is made on the wall behind the speakers. He sells the cubes as a package of 17 with the diffuser. He doesn't sell them in ones or twos

Ah, so there is a method of first use. Excellent!!!

BTW, how are these cubes supposed to be affixed? With Blu Tac or similar?

I understand that there is one surface that has one hole through it's other parallel surface. What about the other 2 holes on the other perpendicular surface? Do they exit the same way through the other parallel surface?

Are the cubes polished?

 

[prem]

Cubes are attached with blu tac. All holes go through and through. They have to be 1 mm hole. 1.5 or 2mm hole screws up the sound. If placed behind speakers two hole is up. If placed in front one hole is up. Whatever they do I feel they just do by damping

The cubes are not polished

 

[keith_correa]

They have to be 1 mm hole. 1.5 or 2mm hole screws up the sound.

1 mm? Looks to be much more than that.

 

[prem]

Cube is 1cm. Hole is 1 mm

 

[keith_correa]

And the holes on different surfaces don't intersect, right?