From a soundbar to an all-Seaton Atmos setup

Words that I didn't expect to ever utter: I changed the XLR cables going to my powered speakers. I'm not a fan of using cables to purportedly tweak the sound of one's setup, so I didn't change because of any expected changes to SQ over the ones I had. I did because I was running into issues of signal loss, intermittent loud popping noises and the like.

FM Kannan had given me a bunch of Belden (Phoenix -> XLR termination by him) cables last week to allow me to hookup my overheads to the Powersoft amplifier. While it won't come as any surprise to folks who have been the recipients of his work, his work was extremely clean and professional. After one too many issues with the cable on my front right, I decided that the time was right to consider an overhaul of my cabling.

As I didn't want to do this more than once, I decided to get the Canare XLR cables. Coincidentally (not), the same brand that Mark Seaton sells. Mark is no-nonsense when it comes to this stuff, so I know I wasn't getting snake-oil. Just solidly built, reliable stuff.

Had a chat with Kannan, confirmed availability and decided to go for the Canare. He visited my home to take measurements and it looked like 100 m of cables would just about do it.

Today, we spent a long afternoon hooking up the new cables. No hums and no signal loss so far. I'm very happy this got done! A big shout-out to Kannan who is methodical and patient to a fault.

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I have always had a fetish for active speakers, more so where we can play with crossover assignment for each driver.

The other reason for the benefit of active speakers is that one does not have to bother about amplifier matching, keep the signal path shortest and also avoid clutter.
However for most audiophiles though, it can be a caveat as they often like to play around with individual components in an attempt to achieve their intended sound out of the speakers.

That said in Jan 1019, I read this thread for the first time and caught up with Raghu @liverpool_for_life .
At that time I was running a full 4-way active setup in my car with ALLO amplifiers and a regular 2-channel setup at home integrated with a subwoofer (which I still continue to have).
So I was privy to the benefits of both active and passive setups.
Additionally a month or so back in late 2018, I had auditioned a full active ATC 7.1 setup at Cinema Focus costing I think around a 1.5 crores, inclusive of receivers and processors in a dedicated fully treated room.
The movie experience was phenomenal to say the least, but the same setup was dull and insipid for music.
He also had a semi-treated room for 2-channel music, but was running passive ATCs there.

Coming back to Jan 2019, I was intrigued with the Seatons that Raghu ( @liverpool_for_life ) had setup at home and was soon knocking on his door for audition.

Listening Environment:
The room is big (around 24x16x10) and is almost a divider for his house. On the right side from where you face the speakers, there is a concrete wall that opens into two rooms and on the left to a balcony in the first half and a drawing room on the rear half.
The back wall has a window in the middle.
The Beginning of his journey
After setting up the behemoth Seaton speakers I think somewhere in late 2017 or mid 2018, Raghu ( @liverpool_for_life ) had realized that he needed professional intervention to do acoustic corrections albeit the digital correction provided by the receiver to get the best out of the setup.
He engaged a well-acclaimed professional, and then started his long journey to treat the room and improve the sound.
When I visited him in Jan-2019, he had done substantial treatment with diffusers on the front wall (the wall behind the listening position) and had blocked the opening to the drawing room with a heavy door.
The rear/back wall (wall behind the speakers), ceiling and the side walls were still bland and there was not much furniture was in the room
When conversing with him in the room, I realized that the room was very alive, reflective and echoey even to the simple clap test, mainly due to lack of enough furniture and multitude of reflective surfaces, especially the back wall which had to douse the rear waves from 3 speakers and two 18 inch subs.

We started with 2-channel music and as I had expected, the sound was diffused and extremely veiled and devoid of details, especially the subtle ones as they got diffused in the reflections. This is bound to happen in a large room which essentially behaves like an enclosure by itself.
But the setup performed quite well for movies and the subs were a revelation. The movie experience made me realize the potential of this setup for 2-channel music also after Raghu went about completed treating the room.

The current scene
2 or 3 months back we caught up again on the phone as he was intending to invest in Digione Signature and sought some opinion as I use it as my primary source. He had also visited home once during that time and detailed to me about many changes he had brought about.
In the last few days as he has mentioned, I built some cables for him and visited him again yesterday to help install the new cables.

Between 2019 and 2021, interspersed with the Covid issues, he has finally got close to finishing the room where he has now added panels on the ceiling and the back wall, a carpet and one line of very comfortable sofas to give it a theater look and which are positioned at the best spot in the room with minimal phase cancellation.
On the hardware side, he has added Atmos speakers and two subs in the rear and upgraded his processors, projector and screen.

While conversing, the room appeared much much quieter signifying the efficiency in the room treatments undertaken,
As laying the new cables took quite a bit of our time, I could only spend a short time to listen. We had moved the speakers a bit to lay the cables so they were not in the most optimum position.

I just listened to 4 or 5 songs from a PC enabled software vide streaming which for me is not the best source.
But that was the best we could do in that short time.
The music that flowed out from the two speakers vindicated the effort and the impact of the acoustic corrections.
But it was still lacking in some details and a bit shrouded in tonality. Mid way through the 1st song, I realized some DSP was in effect, and I asked Raghu to defeat all his DSP and digital equalization that had been run through the Anthem correction software.

The music immediately opened up and the details started to come out with much better layering.
I could push up the volume a couple of notch up and the music held up brilliantly.

Overall the image, stage width and height are very well achieved. I will not yet talk about the bass part as we had no time to tune-in the sub, but I know these are fantastic subs and Mark of Seaton is known for his subwoofer build expertise.
For me moving from the 2-channel sound I heard from the same setup in Jan 2019 to yesterday was absolutely immediate and is not even worth comparing on a positive note
The midrange tonality just needs a bit of tune in to my ears in the short time I heardw.
But I would be hearing it again when all the work is finished and from a better source like the Digione Signature that he has and also to some great movie experience.

Overall, a remarkable and admirable achievement by ( @liverpool_for_life ) that defines a hallmark of patience and belief in the equipment.

In a nutshell, in a world where we keep on changing equipment even after buying after research and auditions, it vindicates if we address issues that lie out of the scope of the equipment like the room rather than changing gears endlessly.

With regard to 2-channel music, I am in the school of though that acoustic correction is a more appropriate approach over digital correction as the play is only with 2 speakers. I don’t like to tinker with the purity of the signal at source through DSP, especially after investing in good source, DAC, pre and amp etc.

My premise is that digital correction should be minimalistic at the most.
The ballgame is totally different with regard to home theater that incorporates multiple channels in the source itself.
 
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Kannan,

Thank you for your, as you so eloquently put in a message to me, "brutally frank" comments on my setup. When I have someone visit my HT, it is precisely the kind I look for. Genuine, heart-felt compliments are welcome (and encouraging!), but constructive criticism is what is needed for things to get even better.


Overall, a remarkable and admirable achievement by ( @liverpool_for_life ) that defines a hallmark of patience and belief in the equipment.

You nailed it. If I didn't have the faith in the equipment based on my subjective assessment of Mark Seaton's capabilities as a speaker designer/manufacturer from afar and on other subjective reviews detailing the strengths of the Catalysts, this wouldn't have happened. As you told me yesterday: You have new speakers! And that feeling was mostly on the basis of the room changing fairly significantly.

As for patience, well yeah. Thanks!


In a nutshell, in a world where we keep on changing equipment even after buying after research and auditions, it vindicates if we address issues that lie out of the scope of the equipment like the room rather than changing gears endlessly.

Exactly this. While I'm fortunate to be able to do what I've done in a non-dedicated room, your experience with pretty much the same equipment here a couple of years back is a testament to what room treatment can do for the audio. I'm certain that if I'd skipped the room treatment and instead thrown money at more expensive speakers, the results wouldn't be anywhere near what I have today.
 
Do you listen to music or just HT?

Also you might want to update the first post with your entire gear list and impressions, ala AVS.
 
Do you listen to music or just HT?

Purchased originally to build a HT. Like quite a few Catalyst owners, I've rediscovered my love for music though.

Also you might want to update the first post with your entire gear list and impressions, ala AVS.

Will do it when I likely start a new thread once the theater is complete (new screen install, completion of room treatments for audio and video and lighting). Looking at early September to get things done. We shall see.
 
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Got your kaleidoscope system in place yet ? Do treat us to some pics and reviews when that happens.
 
Got your kaleidoscope system in place yet ?

Not yet. That’s twice now you’ve spelt Kaleidescape this way, so I’m going to guess you have autocorrect issues:-).

Do treat us to some pics and reviews when that happens.

Sure, will do!

It does seem like you’ve had the chance to see one in action already though. Like every other component in my HT, this purchase is blind as well.
 
A big shout-out to Kannan who is methodical and patient to a fault.

This was reinforced when the last of this cabling change got done recently (Canare for the rear pair of subwoofers also). During some of my experimentation, I had the gain on one of the rear subwoofers click or two lower than the other that wasn't obvious (to me, anyway) when all four subs were playing together. When we tested the new cables with just the rear subs connected, this imbalance became apparent.

Since it was already late, I told him it was quite likely that the issue was different positions on the gain knob for the 2 subs and I'd figure it out as part of a new sub calibration. He wouldn't hear of it however and set both gain knobs to the same position (climbing on a ladder and shining a torch to the amp controls, which are pretty close to the rear wall, to do so) so that the test tones didn't sound like they were localized to one of those subs. He also patiently fixed the wiring of one of my Atmos overheads which was causing issues with levels compared to the rest. And helped with swapping the amplifiers powering the overheads and surrounds around so that the speaker cables had a reasonable amount of slack. Just an all-round good, helpful guy who is brilliant at what he does. Hats off.

Again, there was too little time for listening after everything was done. However, with all of the speakers now hooked up for a 7.4.4 setup, his preference was for some Atmos. We had a listen to some demos from the Dolby Atmos demo disc and the Ready Player One first race scene. I had made some changes with respect to the room treatment, so the setup was uncalibrated. So, I turned Anthem's room correction off and started at levels prior to these changes (5 dB from reference). After the first demo, although still wary, I turned it up to reference. Fun times!
 
Got the new screen put up yet ?

Not shipped yet. Dealer ran into some extremely time-consuming issues with newly issued RBI regulations when attempting to make the balance payment. I've been advised that they've worked past these and that the payment should be received by Stewart Singapore tomorrow.

I should note that, without my asking for anything, my dealer said that they'd ship the screen by air, install it and calibrate the video in time for my 45th (coming up in a bit more than 3 weeks). And that they'd bear the entire burden of the extra cost of shipping by air, which turned out to be ~80% higher than ocean freight. I offered to share half of the extra cost, but they declined as they felt that the delay (while unexpected and not something they had any real control over) was their responsibility to fix.

First-class service. The kind that has the potential to win a customer over for life. They have.
 
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Added a couple of Furman power conditioners (16 A for the fronts and subs up front; 10 A for the subs at the back and other stuff):

When I asked Mark Seaton about protecting my equipment, he recommended the Furman and suggested that I look in their line for products with Series Mode Protection.

That still left with me with the exercise of sizing the power conditioner that'd be fit for my purpose. Thankfully, Mark had made some previous comments on audio power vs electrical current draw:

"In typical listening you will only use a longer term average (what the circuit breaker cares about) of 1/8th-1/6th of maximum audio power. As you start to push amps and speakers to their limits with brief clipping (usually only audible as some added distortion) you can approach 1/3rd power, where driving a subwoofer VERY hard into it's maximum can occasionally push close to 1/2 rated power. "


3 * Catalysts' rated power of 1000W each = 3000 W

A third of that is a 1000W, so at 230 V, I'm looking at roughly 4.3 A.

Submersive HP+ rated power is 6000 W (when driving the slave unit as well)

Half of that is 3000 W, so at 230 V, I'm looking at roughly 13 A.

A total of 17.3 A for the mains and subs at the front with the sub driven really hard. I rarely push things beyond reference, so I went with the 16 A Furman for the front. Have about 1400 W of sub audio power for the rear along with 2400W for the surrounds and the overheads. Similar calculations gets one to 5.7 A. So, the 10 A Furman works for the rest of the audio.


Listening impressions since yesterday afternoon: Been pleasantly surprised by a noticeable uptick in overall clarity of the sound and more background detail coming to the fore. Could be placebo, but I felt there were a couple of cases where I noticed a subtle shift in dynamics (not sure if I'm articulating what I heard right here) that I hadn't before. All in all, the Furman's seem a worthwhile addition to the setup, especially with the audible sonic benefits that I wasn't expecting.
 
More listening impressions with the Furman in the chain: Panning across the front stage is the best it’s ever been in my room. As is the clarity of the sound. Have not enjoyed a Retro Friday as much as I have so far today.

Missus commented on the difference in clarity, even at low volumes. My daughter piped in as well: Appa, I heard a “golusu saththam” (sound of anklets) in a song that I had never heard before. Love it!
 
Added a couple of Furman power conditioners (16 A for the fronts and subs up front; 10 A for the subs at the back and other stuff):

Added a third (10A unit). All of my equipment in the HT (including sources) are now hooked up to the Furman’s. Based on my admittedly limited experience so far, I’d say that these deserve serious consideration for folks in their setups.

As I told someone else: I bought them for the protection and kept them for the music.
 
Right off the bat, these (furman) are unnecessary IMO.

That said 1/8th rated power is the standard for normal program with light clipping. Why Mark stated 1/2 power is beyond me, you'd need to be using a sine or push past clipping. IIRC Marks amps are the SP amps and they are optimized for 2 ohms, with the slave units they may be reaching that but I highly doubt you are going past 1/8th rated power.Glad you enjoy them, have fun!
 
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