Great musicians of the 20th century

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@Moktan
Good you bought jazz back into the thread!Recently I've been focusing a lot on rock music.Don't know why.Probably that old dog 'Nostalgia':)
I have the Off Minor cd,as part of a 4 cd box set called Quadromania.The same set which is mentioned in Monk's website
Thelonious Monk - The Recordings - part One.
The performances are from the years '47 to '57.Not as polished as some of Monk's later Riverside and Columbia recordings.Rather they have a raw and 'real' sound,which is equally interesting.With of course the who's who of early 50's jazzmen for company.
Round Midnight,Well You Needn't,Ruby My Dear,Epistrophy,Mysterioso,Monk's Mood,Criss Cross,Straight No Chaser!Milestones of jazz,stamped with the genius of Monk.
 
Thelonious Monk,Oscar Peterson,Bud Powell and Duke Ellington are the four great pianists of jazz.Monk is the most colourful and eccentric,although all four are equally good and the Duke is unquestionably the best composer in the history of Jazz.
Monk's contribution to the development of Bebop is next only to that of Parker and Gillespie.His mid 50's album "Brilliant Corner's" finally bought him the fame which had eluded him for many years.He remained firmly in the spotlight for the next two decades,both for his music as well as for his habits and innovations. Iconic recordings with John Coltrane,Sonny Rollins,Art Blakey,Max Roach and his 60's quartet with Charlie Rouse,John Ore and Frankie Dunlop have cemented his place as one of the most popular jazz musicians ever.
YouTube - Thelonious Monk - Epistrophy
YouTube - Thelonious Monk - Round About Midnight
 
Duke Ellington once remarked that "Jazz is the kind of guy you wouldn't want your daughter to associate with".More than any other jazz composer it was the 'Duke' who pulled jazz out of it's low brow image and made it the best known art form to have emanated from the United States.
Solitude,Caravan,Mood Indigo,In A Sentimental Mood,Sophisticated Lady,Satin Doll,Take The 'A' Train,Black And Tan Fantasy,Don't Mean A Thing,Money Jungle,the list of great jazz standards composed or recorded by him stretches over a career spanning 5 decades from the mid 20's to the mid 70's.
Many critics rate Duke as being good enough to stand next to the major classical composer's of the 20th century.
My people and my race is the inspiration for my music.But over the years Ellingtonia has grown to represent not just the afro americans,but all of America.More than any other jazz musician Duke Ellington will transcend the barriers of time and space.His music will live.For a l-o-n-g time.
A jazz album you can't do without.Ellington,Mingus and Roach.Money Jungle
YouTube - DUKE ELLINGTON, Money Jungle
 
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Oscar Peterson
Canada has many musical connotations for me.Neil Young.Leonard Cohen.Joni Mitchell.Diana Krall.Bryston:)
But the greatest undoubtedly is Oscar Peterson.The word 'Oscar' for me is not about cinema.It resonates with jazz music,bringing instant sensations of standards from the swing era,played with a verve and perfection that is truly mind boggling.The speed,the dexterity,the improvisations without a single false note,remind you of the great ustads of hindustani classical music.Perhaps more than any other jazz musician,it is in Oscar's musical abilities one senses the 'riyaaz',the lifetime of practise.Recently at the IFFI pavillion in Goa,I overheard a famous,retired Indian dancer talking about the Guru-Shishya Parampara.My mind was absorbed in the films I was watching,but some of her words penetrated through my consciousness and lodged themselves there....Practise,Practise,Practise.Many artists credit 'Practise' as the secret behind their perfection.That is what separates the greats from the wannabes.As a fawning audience we lap up the perfection,with no inkling of the blood,sweat and tears that enabled it.
Oscar Peterson is said to have 'practised' to the music of Art Tatum.And Johann Sebastian Bach,the musical Mt.Everest that every western musician aspires to climb.
His best work happened after he met jazz music's most legendary producer Norman Granz.Along with Ray Brown and Herb Ellis the Oscar Peterson Trio made the 'must have' Live recordings
On The Town
At The Stratford Shakespeare Festival
Herb Ellis was replaced by the drummer Ed Thigpen and in the early 60's the new trio released their most famous studio albums
Night Train
We Got Requests
Later Oscar teamed up with bassist Niels Henning Orsted Pederson and guitar legend Joe Pass for
The Paris Concert(Salle Pleyel 1978)
Another essential Peterson recording
Oscar Peterson In Russia (2 CD set with Niels Pederson on bass and Jake Hanna on drums)

YouTube - OSCAR PETERSON & JOE PASS
 
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Tentative programme for the new year eve celebrations.
Wife,daughter,me.No guests.As we are leaving for Goa early morning next day.
Cabernet Sauvignon,home made pizza's and moist chocolate cake.

Music Programme 7pm-1pm:)

Chopin Piano Concerto No.1
Mendelssohn Piano sextet/Octet for strings
Charlie Parker with Strings
Miles Davis A Kind Of Blue
Oscar Peterson,Joe Pass,Ray Brown The Giants
James Brown Essentials
Ray Charles Essentials
Nat King Cole Best Love Songs
Ella Fitzgerald,Louis Armstrong Songbook
Bach Brandenberg Concerto's
Mozart 40th Symphony at midnight
Beethoven 9th Symphony
begin the new year with a single shot (no water) of a 16 year old Bruichladdich:)
 
This is a very controversial topic - because of course each one of us will have our own favourites, biases. But splendid to be discussing all of this at a forum such as this! Keeps this forum very lively.
 
The Great Rock scene in India a.k.a. the sad state of rock in India:
I remember former Limp Bizkit guitarist Wes Borland had visited Delhi a while back after leaving Limp Bizkit. He was having a workshop and declared that he would never join L.B. again (though he seems to be back now!!!); he therefore wanted to get it out of his system and asked the audience to request any L.B. song and he would play it to get it out of the way.
I wish I could have found a hole deep enough to hide in when some long haired, goatee sporting, wannabe rockers (who doubtless knew a few power chords) started requesting "Nothing Else Matters", "Comfortably Numb", to name a few.:eek:
 
shredder said:
The Great Rock scene in India a.k.a. the sad state of rock in India:
I remember former Limp Bizkit guitarist Wes Borland had visited Delhi a while back after leaving Limp Bizkit. He was having a workshop and declared that he would never join L.B. again (though he seems to be back now!!!); he therefore wanted to get it out of his system and asked the audience to request any L.B. song and he would play it to get it out of the way.
I wish I could have found a hole deep enough to hide in when some long haired, goatee sporting, wannabe rockers (who doubtless knew a few power chords) started requesting "Nothing Else Matters", "Comfortably Numb", to name a few.:eek:
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@shredder
I admire your knowledge and passion for rock and metal.Reminds me of how I once used to feel.Your earlier posts revealed to me,how little I knew about the music about which you obviously know quite a lot.At some level we are all wannabe's.Like you,I used to feel p..... off the with the folks who had heard a smattering of 'hits' and without delving further,felt that they had heard it all.
My personal take,influenced by the time and space I grew up in, is that....
'rock music' and a 'rock lifestyle' in India is largely imitative and a little ridiculous,considering that 'rock music' is a relic from the rebellion/drug laced 60's.Popular world culture has moved on in the last 4 decades.Neither drugs nor rebellion is the main agenda anymore.Instant gratification of romantic,emotional,egotistic,narcissist and sexual needs seems to be the mantra now.
I am from the old school.I beleive that rock music died with Hendrix,Morrison,Joplin,Lennon and Ochs.The Stones,Bowie,Clapton and Dylan are the great survivor's.But the Dylan of the forgettable 80's and the passable 90's/00's,is a watered down version of the stunning singer/songwriter of the 60's.For me the high watermark was the late 60's/early 70's music of Cream,Who,Led Zep,Beatles,Stone's,Door's,Grateful Dead,Steely Dan,Allman Brother's,Santana,Traffic,Dylan,Young,Clapton,Hendrix and Co.
Post 80's rock music seems to be a weak cocktail of infantile rage,self pity,depression and masochism.My viewpoint is obviously biased by the fact that I came across the 80's/90's band's around the time I had lost interest in this genre of music,therefore I found the posterboy's of 'modern rock'- U2,Nirvana,Gun's & Rose's,Def Leppard,Radiohead eminently forgettable.
Ultimately every new generation needs an outlet,a popular culture,where the young can rage against the tyranny of ''the old and the established''.And that is the importance of rock,reggae,blues,metal,rap in any nation in any age.
 
ajay124 said:
@shredder
I admire your knowledge and passion for rock and metal.Reminds me of how I once used to feel.Your earlier posts revealed to me,how little I knew about the music about which you obviously know quite a lot.At some level we are all wannabe's.Like you,I used to feel p..... off the with the folks who had heard a smattering of 'hits' and without delving further,felt that they had heard it all.
My personal take,influenced by the time and space I grew up in, is that....
'rock music' and a 'rock lifestyle' in India is largely imitative and a little ridiculous,considering that 'rock music' is a relic from the rebellion/drug laced 60's.Popular world culture has moved on in the last 4 decades.Neither drugs nor rebellion is the main agenda anymore.Instant gratification of romantic,emotional,egotistic,narcissist and sexual needs seems to be the mantra now.
I am from the old school.I beleive that rock music died with Hendrix,Morrison,Joplin,Lennon and Ochs.The Stones,Bowie,Clapton and Dylan are the great survivor's.But the Dylan of the forgettable 80's and the passable 90's/00's,is a watered down version of the stunning singer/songwriter of the 60's.For me the high watermark was the late 60's/early 70's music of Cream,Who,Led Zep,Beatles,Stone's,Door's,Grateful Dead,Steely Dan,Allman Brother's,Santana,Traffic,Dylan,Young,Clapton,Hendrix and Co.
Post 80's rock music seems to be a weak cocktail of infantile rage,self pity,depression and masochism.My viewpoint is obviously biased by the fact that I came across the 80's/90's band's around the time I had lost interest in this genre of music,therefore I found the posterboy's of 'modern rock'- U2,Nirvana,Gun's & Rose's,Def Leppard,Radiohead eminently forgettable.
Ultimately every new generation needs an outlet,a popular culture,where the young can rage against the tyranny of ''the old and the established''.And that is the importance of rock,reggae,blues,metal,rap in any nation in any age.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree with you more. Acknowledgement of this fact is what separates those who think rock is "noise" to those who can appreciate it as music. While it is undoubtedly true that the main impetus driving rock music is a spent force, the advantage is that rock can now be truly enjoyed as music in itself after dissociating it from the "rebellion" baggage, which it has shouldered for so long.

In a sense I am from the neo-old school, in that, I believe that real rock died out with the advent of Nirvana. Grunge undoubtedly bore the marks of rock music, of which it is a descendant, but it seemed to appeal more to teenagers than anyone else. (Cobain's suicide triggered off a number of teenage suicides in the Seattle area {read this a long time ago in a People magazine, back before it was Indian-ized}). In place of refined vocals splitting the ear with an unbelievably high note, we had more "gruff" vocals which seemed to be the emanations of a tortured soul. Instead of clean technically perfect guitar riffs we were presented with loud fuzzy riffs where the volume threatened to drown out the rest of the music. Gone was the Gothic dress style of zippered leather jackets and leather pants, replaced by torn jeans and converse shoes. Not that this was an abrupt transition. Music lovers must have seen it coming a long way off. Because the rock of the late 1980's to early 90's stopped being about rebellion against established order, but about love, as can be witnessed in the songs of bands like Cinderella and Poison. (G 'n R was a notable exception, both in their songs as well in the lifestyle of their band-members). So along came grunge and stole the crown. And it is a form of grunge that is largely considered as rock these days, as seen in the music of Linkin Park, for instance.
My point is that, although rebellion was the basis of the emergence and popularity of rock in its initial years, this is no longer the case. Rock has evolved as a genre to the point where it can be appreciated purely as music, without trying to use it as a vehicle of protest or resentment against established authority. But that it is still being used as a form of rebellion is evident because a lot of people claim to "outgrow" rock. True it is very effective as an outlet for pent up rage, frustration, etc., feelings which are characteristic of adolescence, but it is more than that. To listen to Eric Johnson's "Cliffs of Dover", Morse's "Highland Wedding" or even to watch a master guitarist shred out those arpeggios is nothing short of poetry in motion.

Now coming to India. In India we are still largely conservative and rock is the very antithesis of conservatism. So when a person listens to rock, this engenders in him certain attitudes, which make him openly contemptuous of conservative values; those same values which so serve to restrain the youth. The rock lover is perceived (and this is a personal take) to have a devil may care attitude, brought on no doubt by the musical influence, which endears him to the hearts of the opposite sex. Seeing this, a lot of wanna be types also try to emulate him and thus we have a lot of pretentious types (pilpali doodhs) who know the tunes to a few well known rock anthems and therein profess to be hard core rockers. Truth is, these bandwagon jumpers have no more idea about rock than they do about classical ragas. In short they have no idea about music.

Sorry for rambling on, but my main point is that rock as a genre can be dissociated from its rebellion roots and appreciated solely in and for itself.:)

Lest this be taken in the wrong spirit, @ Ajay, I am in no way implicating you.:) I am starting to develop a real respect for your taste in music which is truly varied and in-depth.
 
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shredder said:
Couldn't agree with you more. Acknowledgement of this fact is what separates those who think rock is "noise" to those who can appreciate it as music.
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speaking of noise..i recommend Borbetomagus.."Barbed Wire Maggots" to begin with...that's pure, discordant, unadulterated noise
 
moktan said:
speaking of noise..i recommend Borbetomagus.."Barbed Wire Maggots" to begin with...that's pure, discordant, unadulterated noise
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even better, I recommend you listen to some school or college "rock" band to get an idea of what deafening, senseless noise means.......:D
 
The last few posts in this thread have some very insightful points, but I also beg to differ from some of the statements that are a bit sweeping and even dare I say, outdated and misinformed.

In my humble opinion, real rock, whatever it may be, neither died or was born with any particular era or person. At best, it gained more popularity (rock became pop) in certain eras more than others, and the flavor of rock changed/adapted/evolved with time. I find it strange that so many people insist that rock has regressed instead of evolving.. I mean, how can it? It still commands a huge fan following, and there are still hundreds of thousands of rock bands trying to push the envelope. If nothing else, give Darwin his due! Or, to put it another way, we probably feel this way because we haven't devoted sufficient time and energy to the current rock scene.

Comparing different flavours of rock is actually quite illogical, like saying "impressionist art is superior to abstract art" or worse saying something like "Monet is a better painter than Picasso". People often like to think that the songs and the genre they heard in their formative years is clearly superior to the current "trash", which almost makes it chronological snobbery. Unfortunately, we often feel the need to do these kind of comparisons, myself included.

Saying that rock lifestyle is imitative may be true, but I resent the derogatory flavor attached to it. What you call imitative, I call adaptive. Should we also shed our trousers, jeans, shirts, and undergarments because it is imitative? Or should we wear what we find sensible and attractive? The funny thing is that ALL human beings learn by imitation. In fact, there is a thought that claims that ALL human thought and ALL so-called creativity is actually just imitiation - that we are actually incapable of original thought, that at best, we form theories and frameworks that connect two or more disparate but known things and claim it to be original thought.

Should we also deride the ridiculous baggy, flowery, and polyester-y fashion that we (and the rest of the world) imitated from the West during the "flower power" 70s? Or can we just accept it as something inexplicable that afflicts us (like a virus) once in a while, and hopefully leaves us with minimal lasting effects? Of course, the same can be said for the grunge look or glam metal or probably any other genre that identified itself with a certain outlook.

Not too many people will agree with me, but I strongly feel that Sound Garden, early Pearl Jam, Stone Temple Pilots (to name a few grunge bands), or Tool or A Perfect Circle had far more consistency, creativity, and melody than most of the other overhyped, overworshipped, and nauseously overplayed bands in the 60s/70s/80s. Yes, some of those "golden oldies" bands are extremely talented and have some great songs that have very good repeat value. But that's it. Hardly any album of any of these bands has any sort of consistency. Perhaps, their rock and roll lifestyle and spicy gossip and bizarre dress sense was needed to cover up the glaring holes of inconsistency in their productions.

There are many many notable exceptions here of course. Jethro Tull, Beatles, and Led Zep, for example are incredibly consistent - most of their albums are of the "close your eyes and buy it" quality albums. But there are a ton of other overhyped bands that have perhaps 3-4 decent songs spanning across many more albums.

Oh, and one more thing: Please do listen to the Indian rock bands that are performing nowadays. They're good, and gone are the days when bands only did covers. For example, I just attended the NH7 rock festival in Pune, and heard 4 bands, which was about 2 hrs of music. I did not hear even one cover. My impression, I was well and truly impressed by many of the bands.

Among the notables were Lounge Piranha who were absolutely stunning to the extent that I came away from the live show with the intent of buying all their albums if I could figure out where I could get it.

To cut short my rambling, I strongly believe that rock has progressed over the years, not regressed. There is far higher quality work that is being done nowadays in the rock genre than it was ever before. In fact, with the advent of the internet, rock is evolving even more rapidly (due to increasingly cheaper and widespread exposure) I'm actually surprised at the fact that so few people seem to recognize this.

If you want to benchmark, take a look at A Perfect Circle's Emotive, which is a cover album containing many famous songs including Imagine. I dare say that almost all the songs put the originals to shame.
 
now we are talking....and glad to note that the three posters who have made significantly passionate points have solicited pardon for 'rambling'..i for one would wish that you guys went on..the best rock music that i have liked have always been the musically circumlocutory excesses of a live Grateful Dead ('turn on your lovelight', anyone?) ..hence have 'hated' the tightly structured two minute formats of the earlier Green Day..anyway when we talk of Rock and Pop perhaps we use these terminology as metaphors...
to the hard bop and be bop and the cool loving jazz aficionados even the great Duke was at one time 'pop' (without of course the money associated with it) till his Live at Newport ....
hence i am not surprised that modern music is a campy, divisive affair...the pop votaries feel superior to those who listen to filmi music (though today there is little to distinguish between the two)..the rock guys look down upon the pop guys...the jazz people think rock aficionados are adolescents caught in a time warp and even amongst jazz listeners there is a pecking order and the more esoteric, farout, discordant, 'free' and avant garde your music the greater the degree of hipness associated with it....
as for me i always value sincerity over slickness and hence have at times appreciated lesser acts over AR Rehman and Steely Dan.....
i think this discussion will go on...and in the mean time i request you to savor Bill Evans Live at the Village Vanguard...
 
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On the subject of Indian bands, my strictly personal take is that I prefer to listen to Indian bands do covers. Like I said, it is strictly personal. It is not a prejudice.... I have been to a number of concerts and I have always felt that there was more energy and spirit in those concerts that featured bands doing covers. For example, I immeasurably enjoyed those Parikrama concerts where they did Van Halen covers like Jump, Deep Purple, ACDC, etc. In a particular Parikrama concert I was at, many years ago, the band that opened for them was Them Clones. Insisting on originality, this band played only original numbers and refused to entertain requests for popular covers. You know how many people were on their feet? Zero. All, including me, were sitting on grass, waiting for the main act to come on. Not that their music was particularly bad or anything. It's just that it did not strike the right chord for me, as also for the rest of the crowd. How many people sat down during the Parikrama concert? Zero.... if only for fear of being trampled by the enthusiastic crowd.
Then on to another great Indian cover band..... Moksha. I can't begin to describe the thrill that swept the crowd as the speakers blared out the opening notes of Aces High.

No doubt, Indian bands doing originals are good. But when it comes to originals I prefer fusion bands like Indian Ocean. No idea about NH7, but I watched a programme on Channel [V] (or was it MTV?) awhile back, something to do with a battle of the bands or something. They all performed original numbers, and well, all I can say is that it was incompetence masquerading as originality. There was neither rythm nor melody to their numbers, just an overusage of guitar effects, topped off with vocals that would do well in a fish-market to attract the most number of customers.

About covers putting originals to shame it is really quite subjective (as all music is). Because I have heard covers that made me wonder why the original artist would ever willingly allow such a cover to be made. For example: a cover of Bryan Adams' "Everything I do...", I recently heard. As to doing retakes of covers, it is akin to riding on the popularity of the original. And even though the covers may actually sound better, it is because of the original that we listen to them in the first place. I have also heard Brahma, (are they Pune based?) doing a rock version of Imagine and it went down quite well, due in no small part to the fact that everyone in the audience had heard the original, and were pleasantly surprised to hear it put to a rock tune. As it is, Imagine is one such song that can sound good with any accompaniment, even with a sitar, largely due to its lyrics.
 
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