Help in choosing a 5.1 setup

[Love4sound]

I have a hard floor. So adding a carpet would only benefit I suppose? At least to prevent reflections from the LCRs?

If yes, my doubt was if the kind of carpet matters.

You can definitely try. A regular floor carpet should be good enough

 

[Marakk]

I have a hard floor. So adding a carpet would only benefit I suppose? At least to prevent reflections from the LCRs?

If yes, my doubt was if the kind of carpet matters.

Depends on the speaker and its characteristics. As measurements from Audiosciencereview have shown, sometimes floor bounces actually help. So can't be sure whether it'll help unless your speakers get tested.

 

[liverpool_for_life]

I have a hard floor. So adding a carpet would only benefit I suppose? At least to prevent reflections from the LCRs?

I have had a carpet in my HT for a long time. Recently rolled up during the lock down. Definitely like it better now. The highs have a sparkle that I like better.

I do have a few absorption panels on the ceiling, though. If you can't do something for the ceiling, a carpet may be helpful for you. I'd try without for starters and add one if you feel the need.

 

[nubinstanley]

Ok. Thanks for the advice guys.

I'll get a carpet anyhow. I have two sections in my living room and so I can use it anyway. Will try with/without it in the HT area and then decide. I'll have to run the Audyssey calibration with/without it I suppose?

One more unanswered question : 14 or 16 AWG wires?

 

[Nitin K]

One more unanswered question : 14 or 16 AWG wires?

16 awg is commonly used but would be better to go for 14 awg in case if you plan to upgrade in the future. The speaker wiring is one thing which you won't change for years hence better to go for the best you can afford
You can try Kabel Direkt on Amazon India which is a good made in Germany brand and is 100% copper.
Pls stay away from the copper clad aluminium wires widely sold online as they are not as good.

 

[nubinstanley]

16 awg is commonly used but would be better to go for 14 awg in case if you plan to upgrade in the future. The speaker wiring is one thing which you won't change for years hence better to go for the best you can afford
You can try Kabel Direkt on Amazon India which is a good made in Germany brand and is 100% copper.
Pls stay away from the copper clad aluminium wires widely sold online as they are not as good.

Wokie. Will take a look at 14AWG "Kabel Direkt" cables. Just out of curiosity - C&E and AmazonBasics ones are also advertised as OFC cables and has very good reviews as well. Ever tried those?

 

[nubinstanley]

@Nitin K

Not in stock on Amazon (or anywhere else) .

AmazonBasics or C&E 14 AWG? And BTW, I am not setting up in anything permanent, as in, no wiring through walls or anything.

 

[Nitin K]

Wokie. Will take a look at 14AWG "Kabel Direkt" cables. Just out of curiosity - C&E and AmazonBasics ones are also advertised as OFC cables and has very good reviews as well. Ever tried those?

No have not tried both of those brands. But had considered C&E before purchasing 14 awg Kabel Direkt to replace my 25 year old 16 awg speaker wire. Assuming Kabel Direkt will be better than both of them as per reviews. You get them in 50 ft and 100 ft length.
On Amazon India, pls see a good reliable seller since cart2india has user complaints. I had purchased from Amazon UK but shipping and customs duty will add to the cost.
In any case pls see user reviews and carefully decide before purchasing any brand since speaker wire is one thing you won't change in a long time if you get it right.
For the short term, you can try C&E. After the Covid situation eases, I am sure Kabel Direkt may be available with other sellers if you can wait.

 

[nubinstanley]

No have not tried both of those brands. But had considered C&E before purchasing 14 awg Kabel Direkt to replace my 25 year old 16 awg speaker wire. Assuming Kabel Direkt will be better than both of them as per reviews. You get them in 50 ft and 100 ft length.
On Amazon India, pls see a good reliable seller since cart2india has user complaints. I had purchased from Amazon UK but shipping and customs duty will add to the cost.
In any case pls see user reviews and carefully decide before purchasing any brand since speaker wire is one thing you won't change in a long time if you get it right.
For the short term, you can try C&E. After the Covid situation eases, I am sure Kabel Direkt may be available with other sellers if you can wait.

Wokie. Makes sense.

 

[Sean de Silva]

Q Acoustics certainly seems to be the flavour of the season lol! I am a proud owner of the mellifluous Q3050i floorstanders for 2ch stereo. Since you have heard the whole package and like the sound, I'd suggest you stick to the same brand for the remaining HT channels. The Denon avr that you have shortlisted is a good match for this setup. You could also look at Marantz SR5014 avr. I'd recommend that you get italian eurocable 2.5mm2 or german klotz ly225 2.5mm2 for the speaker wire. I don't know if they're available online as I had bought them locally in Mumbai.

 

[nubinstanley]

Q Acoustics certainly seems to be the flavour of the season lol! I am a proud owner of the mellifluous Q3050i floorstanders for 2ch stereo. Since you have heard the whole package and like the sound, I'd suggest you stick to the same brand for the remaining HT channels. The Denon avr that you have shortlisted is a good match for this setup. You could also look at Marantz SR5014 avr. I'd recommend that you get italian eurocable 2.5mm2 or german klotz ly225 2.5mm2 for the speaker wire. I don't know if they're available online as I had bought them locally in Mumbai.

Lemme take a look at those cables. Just out of curiosity - I have been reading quite a lot these days, and the general recommendation I have been seeing is that, as a noob, there is no need to invest heavily in cables. And I personally feel that too, as in, I most probably would not be able to tell the difference.

 

[nubinstanley]

I also had a question on speaker placement. As i had mentioned, my room size is 30x14. The TV is set up parallel to one of the shorter walls and we use half the room for the HT. As I understood, the surround speakers will come on either side of my couch (90 - 110 degree). Now, the problem is that, the couch is a 3-seater and so one of the surround speakers will need to be positioned such that it is in the middle of the area where we walk to get around. I am certain that it is bound to be dropped at some point in time.

I saw an alternate 5.1 layout where the surrounds are kept behind the couch, in line with the front L/R and equidistant from the couch. So, if I draw a circle with the couch as the center, all speaker would fall on it and the front L/surround R line and the front R/surround L line would form a symmetrical X.

Any opinions about the second setup ? I will anyhow try out all these options. But if anyone has tried such a setup, would love to know how it sounds.

 

[superczar]

Lemme take a look at those cables. Just out of curiosity - I have been reading quite a lot these days, and the general recommendation I have been seeing is that, as a noob, there is no need to invest heavily in cables. And I personally feel that too, as in, I most probably would not be able to tell the difference.

amazonbasics all the way for all cables.
16awg will suffice if the cable runs are short e.g 10-15 feet
14 awg if greater than 20-25 ft.
I measured the DC resistance of a 50ft run and it came to 0.31 ohms for a pair (I.e 100 ft).
The ac resistance will be slightly higher

 

[nubinstanley]

amazonbasics all the way for all cables.
16awg will suffice if the cable runs are short e.g 10-15 feet
14 awg if greater than 20-25 ft.
I measured the DC resistance of a 50ft run and it came to 0.31 ohms for a pair (I.e 100 ft).
The ac resistance will be slightly higher

Thanks for the input.

 

[nubinstanley]

I also had a question on speaker placement. As i had mentioned, my room size is 30x14. The TV is set up parallel to one of the shorter walls and we use half the room for the HT. As I understood, the surround speakers will come on either side of my couch (90 - 110 degree). Now, the problem is that, the couch is a 3-seater and so one of the surround speakers will need to be positioned such that it is in the middle of the area where we walk to get around. I am certain that it is bound to be dropped at some point in time.

I saw an alternate 5.1 layout where the surrounds are kept behind the couch, in line with the front L/R and equidistant from the couch. So, if I draw a circle with the couch as the center, all speaker would fall on it and the front L/surround R line and the front R/surround L line would form a symmetrical X.

Any opinions about the second setup ? I will anyhow try out all these options. But if anyone has tried such a setup, would love to know how it sounds.

Any takers for this question?

 

[Marakk]

Any takers for this question?

Well, I have been looking into this myself, as my room won't allow for positioning on the sides. So while this alternative is done, even manual of many speakers I have been through mention it, the problem becomes that listeners will be severely off-axis. You'll need tilt the speaker down or get speakers like Dali Alteco which can be pointed down 45°.

Earlier the recommendation was that bipoles will work for such scenarios, creating a diffuse soundfield, but now recommendations by ITU, on which Dolby recs are also based, mention the surround speakers at ear level or slightly higher, between 0-15°. Object based audio formats will also need it.

But immediately behind the couch, speakers being at ear level just doesn't work. 2 feet above is better as it'll create some distance between listeners and the speakers. This is why downfiring becomes essential.

 

[nubinstanley]

Well, I have been looking into this myself, as my room won't allow for positioning on the sides. So while this alternative is done, even manual of many speakers I have been through mention it, the problem becomes that listeners will be severely off-axis. You'll need tilt the speaker down or get speakers like Dali Alteco which can be pointed down 45°.

Earlier the recommendation was that bipoles will work for such scenarios, creating a diffuse soundfield, but now recommendations by ITU, on which Dolby recs are also based, mention the surround speakers at ear level or slightly higher, between 0-15°. Object based audio formats will also need it.

But immediately behind the couch, speakers being at ear level just doesn't work. 2 feet above is better as it'll create some distance between listeners and the speakers. This is why downfiring becomes essential.

Hi Marakk

This is what I have understood so far :

When on either side : 90 - 110 degree off axis, 1 - 2 feet above ear level.

When placing at the back : I guess, you were talking about the case where the surrounds would be placed immediately behind the couch ? In which case, you are suggesting that the surrounds be placed 2 feet above ear level and also in an angled down-firing positing. Is this understanding correct ?

I was talking about the case where the surrounds would be placed at the back such that the couch is equidistant from the front speakers and the surrounds. Please check this link. If you scroll down a little, there would be a 5.1 configuration marked as "Alternate Configuration". It suggests that, in such a config, the surrounds should not be pointed towards the listening position. Unfortunately, it does not give any guidance related to heights/distances.

 

[Marakk]

Hi Marakk

This is what I have understood so far :

When on either side : 90 - 110 degree off axis, 1 - 2 feet above ear level.

When placing at the back : I guess, you were talking about the case where the surrounds would be placed immediately behind the couch ? In which case, you are suggesting that the surrounds be placed 2 feet above ear level and also in an angled down-firing positing. Is this understanding correct ?

I was talking about the case where the surrounds would be placed at the back such that the couch is equidistant from the front speakers and the surrounds. Please check this link. If you scroll down a little, there would be a 5.1 configuration marked as "Alternate Configuration". It suggests that, in such a config, the surrounds should not be pointed towards the listening position. Unfortunately, it does not give any guidance related to heights/distances.

Hi Marakk

This is what I have understood so far :

When on either side : 90 - 110 degree off axis, 1 - 2 feet above ear level.

When placing at the back : I guess, you were talking about the case where the surrounds would be placed immediately behind the couch ? In which case, you are suggesting that the surrounds be placed 2 feet above ear level and also in an angled down-firing positing. Is this understanding correct ?

I was talking about the case where the surrounds would be placed at the back such that the couch is equidistant from the front speakers and the surrounds. Please check this link. If you scroll down a little, there would be a 5.1 configuration marked as "Alternate Configuration". It suggests that, in such a config, the surrounds should not be pointed towards the listening position. Unfortunately, it does not give any guidance related to heights/distances.

Lol. I clearly misunderstood.

I remember reading research about Quadrophonic setups though, where the surrounds are placed like that image, without a center though. Anyway, the research showed that Quadrophonic setups aren't rated to sound as good as side surround setups. Let me see if I can dig it out.

Placing the side surrounds backwards can mess up with imaging, especially for object based audio formats that have been mastered in a studios with the recommended setup and rely on users to have that or something similar.

 

[superczar]

Any takers for this question?

My living room setup is almost exactly similar thus leaving me no choice but to mount the surrounds on the wall behind the couch about a foot above the MLP plane.
The couch is far from equidistant. The MLP distance from surrounds is almost half that of the fronts.

Is it perfect? certainly not.
Is it good enough - I’d say yes.

In any case, most of the db level mismatches and at least some of the frequency response issues will get managed by the AVR so you should be fine with option 2

 

[nubinstanley]

Lol. I clearly misunderstood.

I remember reading research about Quadrophonic setups though, where the surrounds are placed like that image, without a center though. Anyway, the research showed that Quadrophonic setups aren't rated to sound as good as side surround setups. Let me see if I can dig it out.

Placing the side surrounds backwards can mess up with imaging, especially for object based audio formats that have been mastered in a studios with the recommended setup and rely on users to have that or something similar.

Mmmm. Let me experiment.