Help in choosing a 5.1 setup

Audiolab 7000A Integrated Amplifier
superczar said:
My living room setup is almost exactly similar thus leaving me no choice but to mount the surrounds on the wall behind the couch about a foot above the MLP plane.
The couch is far from equidistant. The MLP distance from surrounds is almost half that of the fronts.

Is it perfect? certainly not.
Is it good enough - I’d say yes.

In any case, most of the db level mismatches and at least some of the frequency response issues will get managed by the AVR so you should be fine with option 2
Click to expand...

Well, that's reassuring. :)

Will try out some configs (until my wife kicks me out of the house :P).
 
My initial budget was 2.5L. As of now the quote is 2.3 and I am hoping to bargain a little more. Due to the Covid scene, I haven't been able to place the order yet. So, was considering 5.1.2 system.
  1. Was thinking of getting an extra pair of 3010i or 3020i.
  2. If my house owner allows, I could mount them on the wall, near to the ceiling, angled down. Will this be enough for the height channels ? If yes, where exactly do I place them ? On either side of the couch or a little in front of the couch ?
  3. If my house owner does not allow, I could try placing them on top of the front towers in an up-firing position. I read somewhere (audioholics ?) that 2-way bookshelf speakers could work for this (not ideal, I agree).
  4. If options 2/3 does not work, I could just use them for a 7.1 setup.
  5. OR, get a pair of Dali Alteco C1 (A lil more expensive).
  6. Points 2/3/4 apply here as well.
Note : I will most probably get the extra pair only if my house owner allows wall mounting. But it would be great to get opinions on the other listed options as well. :)
 
nubinstanley said:
My initial budget was 2.5L. As of now the quote is 2.3 and I am hoping to bargain a little more. Due to the Covid scene, I haven't been able to place the order yet. So, was considering 5.1.2 system.
  1. Was thinking of getting an extra pair of 3010i or 3020i.
  2. If my house owner allows, I could mount them on the wall, near to the ceiling, angled down. Will this be enough for the height channels ? If yes, where exactly do I place them ? On either side of the couch or a little in front of the couch ?
  3. If my house owner does not allow, I could try placing them on top of the front towers in an up-firing position. I read somewhere (audioholics ?) that 2-way bookshelf speakers could work for this (not ideal, I agree).
  4. If options 2/3 does not work, I could just use them for a 7.1 setup.
  5. OR, get a pair of Dali Alteco C1 (A lil more expensive).
  6. Points 2/3/4 apply here as well.
Note : I will most probably get the extra pair only if my house owner allows wall mounting. But it would be great to get opinions on the other listed options as well. :)
Click to expand...

Angling normal bookshelf speakers up won't be that effective, especially when placed over speakers. You'll still get a good amount of sound directly from the speakers. Dolby Atmos enabled speakers use head-related transfer function to enhance the overhead effect. Dali Alteco doesn't use this, but if you'll notice, they are using foam padding to counteract the effects of angled drivers, and the AV receiver will have to provide the HRTF for Atmos, but I'm not sure if receivers are doing that. Reviews are still good though.

What you can also try is mounting the speakers a bit below the ceiling, and letting them bounce on the ceiling from a short distance. You can get speakers like Polk Atrium 4 or Polk Atrium 5, and then calculate the exact angle of the bounce that will send the on-axis reflected sound to MLP, and turn them to that angle. That should work better than speakers bouncing sound from way below. You can even experiment and label these height speakers as Top Fronts instead of Dolby Enabled or Front Heights to see which performs better.
 
Marakk said:
Angling normal bookshelf speakers up won't be that effective, especially when placed over speakers. You'll still get a good amount of sound directly from the speakers. Dolby Atmos enabled speakers use head-related transfer function to enhance the overhead effect. Dali Alteco doesn't use this, but if you'll notice, they are using foam padding to counteract the effects of angled drivers, and the AV receiver will have to provide the HRTF for Atmos, but I'm not sure if receivers are doing that. Reviews are still good though.

What you can also try is mounting the speakers a bit below the ceiling, and letting them bounce on the ceiling from a short distance. You can get speakers like Polk Atrium 4 or Polk Atrium 5, and then calculate the exact angle of the bounce that will send the on-axis reflected sound to MLP, and turn them to that angle. That should work better than speakers bouncing sound from way below. You can even experiment and label these height speakers as Top Fronts instead of Dolby Enabled or Front Heights to see which performs better.
Click to expand...

OK. That's about the "bouncing configuration" which, I agree, is sub optimal. But why bounce at all, if I can mount them close to the ceiling ?

I am a little confused, when it comes to directly mounting them on the wall. That is one of the possible atmos configurations ? That is, having angled elevation speakers ? The Dali Alteco C1 (or SVS Prime Elevations), for example, is made for this specific use case ? - fire at an angle to the MLP ?

I was just wondering, if this could be done by just getting a pair of 3010i or 3020i. And then their positioning as well (that is the positioning of the wall mounted elevation channels).
 
nubinstanley said:
OK. That's about the "bouncing configuration" which, I agree, is sub optimal. But why bounce at all, if I can mount them close to the ceiling ?

I am a little confused, when it comes to directly mounting them on the wall. That is one of the possible atmos configurations ? That is, having angled elevation speakers ? The Dali Alteco C1 (or SVS Prime Elevations), for example, is made for this specific use case ? - fire at an angle to the MLP ?

I was just wondering, if this could be done by just getting a pair of 3010i or 3020i. And then their positioning as well (that is the positioning of the wall mounted elevation channels).
Click to expand...

Because of the angle. If you mount them close to the ceiling, you'll be within 30-50° angle, which means they'll act as front heights. A bounce from short distance will be much stronger than bounce from above the towers speakers, and that bounce will mean you'll have phantom ceiling speakers at angle crossing 55°, which means they can be configured as Top Fronts, without actually being on the ceiling.

Any speaker that you can mount close to the ceiling and then adjust the tilt +/- 45° angle can work.

Downfiring speakers are made with angle for the purpose you stated. Dali Alteco seems more flexible as you can change the angle, and you have two options, about 20° and 45°. I mentioned Polk Atrium as they'll be cheaper than Alteco too, and you can freely adjust them to whatever angle works best.
 
nubinstanley said:
My initial budget was 2.5L. As of now the quote is 2.3 and I am hoping to bargain a little more. Due to the Covid scene, I haven't been able to place the order yet. So, was considering 5.1.2 system.
  1. Was thinking of getting an extra pair of 3010i or 3020i.
  2. If my house owner allows, I could mount them on the wall, near to the ceiling, angled down. Will this be enough for the height channels ? If yes, where exactly do I place them ? On either side of the couch or a little in front of the couch ?
  3. If my house owner does not allow, I could try placing them on top of the front towers in an up-firing position. I read somewhere (audioholics ?) that 2-way bookshelf speakers could work for this (not ideal, I agree).
  4. If options 2/3 does not work, I could just use them for a 7.1 setup.
  5. OR, get a pair of Dali Alteco C1 (A lil more expensive).
  6. Points 2/3/4 apply here as well.
Note : I will most probably get the extra pair only if my house owner allows wall mounting. But it would be great to get opinions on the other listed options as well. :)
Click to expand...
If you ask me plan a good 5.1 set up with your budget or 2.5L. Invest in a very good subwoofer as you can always install a pair of height speakers later for atmos. A good 5.1 set up will be way better then a compromised atmos set up. Upfiring speakers is a waste of money. I wouldn’t even advice front heights as I myself have tested it in my place and heard it in many places. The height effects is never satisfying. Only best place to install atmos speakers is the ceiling Over your head to get the best effects. I have svs elevations installed over my head which is one of the best speakers for atmos and I myself not fully satisfied and feel I shout install 2 more to get the best of atmos. So if I where you I will set up the best 5.1 available for a 2.5L budget and later upgrade for atmos
 
At the risk of sounding pedantic, I'll ask a few more specific questions. :P

1) I'm talking about wall mounting these on either side of the couch. Please check this link. If you scroll down a little, a picture of this config is shown (speakers in blue), They are there for "height effects" ?
2) So, with this config, they cannot act as front heights as they are not in the front ?
3) The next question was, if I could get a pair of "cheaper" 3020i-s instead of the Alteco, for the same purpose.
 
nubinstanley said:
At the risk of sounding pedantic, I'll ask a few more specific questions. :p

1) I'm talking about wall mounting these on either side of the couch. Please check this link. If you scroll down a little, a picture of this config is shown (speakers in blue), They are there for "height effects" ?
2) So, with this config, they cannot act as front heights as they are not in the front ?
3) The next question was, if I could get a pair of "cheaper" 3020i-s instead of the Alteco, for the same purpose.
Click to expand...

I think they are installed as surrounds.Any surround speakers or bookshelf speakers can be used for atmos
 
Love4sound said:
If you ask me plan a good 5.1 set up with your budget or 2.5L. Invest in a very good subwoofer as you can always install a pair of height speakers later for atmos.
Click to expand...

I am kinda happy with the Q Acoustics speakers. If I can get them (along with the AVR) for < 2.3L, I think I'll be "satisfied". Which is why I thought about adding a height channel (even if not perfect - but have the option to build on top of).

Love4sound said:
Upfiring speakers is a waste of money. I wouldn’t even advice front heights as I myself have tested it in my place and heard it in many places. The height effects is never satisfying.
Click to expand...

I agree, I won't be considering the up-firing speakers.

Love4sound said:
I have svs elevations installed over my head which is one of the best speakers for atmos and I myself not fully satisfied and feel I shout install 2 more to get the best of atmos.
Click to expand...

What I understood is that, even with speakers on the ceiling, a ".4" config is what you prefer over a ".2" config ? If yes, this is ok for me. As in, I could survive with a 5.1.2. :) How about placing the speakers on the side wall as in this link (picture with blue speakers) ? This might be my only shot at a height channel. :P
 
Love4sound said:
I think they are installed as surrounds.Any surround speakers or bookshelf speakers can be used for atmos
Click to expand...

This is what is written in that link : "Place it high on a wall near the ceiling and height effects can be enjoyed at full fidelity in any room, without the compromises of ceiling bounce or in-ceiling speakers".

As I said, I am not looking for the perfect Atmos setup. Was just looking at the config that seems to be my only option to get a height channel. :)

Anyhow, thanks for all the inputs. Looks like its going to be a tough decision for me. :P Most probably, I'd end up setting up just the 5.1 for the time being.
 
nubinstanley said:
I am kinda happy with the Q Acoustics speakers. If I can get them (along with the AVR) for < 2.3L, I think I'll be "satisfied". Which is why I thought about adding a height channel (even if not perfect - but have the option to build on top of).



I agree, I won't be considering the up-firing speakers.



What I understood is that, even with speakers on the ceiling, a ".4" config is what you prefer over a ".2" config ? If yes, this is ok for me. As in, I could survive with a 5.1.2. :) How about placing the speakers on the side wall as in this link (picture with blue speakers) ? This might be my only shot at a height channel. :p
Click to expand...
If you do not have the option of installing the speakers in your ceiling you can try installing dali c1 in the side top corner above your MLP. I have heard a 5.1.2 set up in one fm house where he installed the Dali c1 in the side top corner to his MLP.
 
Not willing to divert the OP from his speakers option but just for his information. Q Acoustic 3000i series is very good and I have myself auditioned Q Acoustic 3050i with Marantz SR5013 avr and speakers perform very well for movies as well as music. Recently Paradigm has phase out their Monitor v7 series and introduced Premier series. Now Paradigm monitor series is under very good discounted price . Similarly Monitor Audio has phase out their Bronze series and introduced Bronze G6 speakers in the market. Old Bronze series is also under very good bargain price. OP may audition them before final purchase. He may get a step above speakers in his existing budget. Before purchase, wait and audition minimum 5 different speaker. You will learn a lot and you will know which sound signature like you.....
 
rpmahale said:
Not willing to divert the OP from his speakers option but just for his information. Q Acoustic 3000i series is very good and I have myself auditioned Q Acoustic 3050i with Marantz SR5013 avr and speakers perform very well for movies as well as music. Recently Paradigm has phase out their Monitor v7 series and introduced Premier series. Now Paradigm monitor series is under very good discounted price . Similarly Monitor Audio has phase out their Bronze series and introduced Bronze G6 speakers in the market. Old Bronze series is also under very good bargain price. OP may audition them before final purchase. He may get a step above speakers in his existing budget. Before purchase, wait and audition minimum 5 different speaker. You will learn a lot and you will know which sound signature like you.....
Click to expand...

Thank you for the suggestion. Lemme check 'em out. :) However, auditioning is difficult these days...

Any vendor you would recommend for the speakers you mentioned ?
 
Love4sound said:
If you do not have the option of installing the speakers in your ceiling you can try installing dali c1 in the side top corner above your MLP. I have heard a 5.1.2 set up in one fm house where he installed the Dali c1 in the side top corner to his MLP.
Click to expand...

At this FM's house, the Dali C1-s are on the top corner on either side of the couch. How are the surrounds positioned ? On either side of the couch (in which case they would be almost on the same axis as the heights) or behind the couch ?
 
nubinstanley said:
At this FM's house, the Dali C1-s are on the top corner on either side of the couch. How are the surrounds positioned ? On either side of the couch (in which case they would be almost on the same axis as the heights) or behind the couch ?
Click to expand...
He installed it in the top side corners to his MLP. Not on ceiling but on the wall
 
Don't think about atmos speakers now. Surround sound experience in horizontal plane is more than enough at beginning. You may think about vertical plane later on . You will not miss movie experience without Atmos but with poor sub you can definitely. You may wait for few months, you may get better atmos speakers within reasonable price from FM in our classified section. Invest that money is good quality subwoofer from SVS or XTZ.
 
rpmahale said:
Not willing to divert the OP from his speakers option but just for his information. Q Acoustic 3000i series is very good and I have myself auditioned Q Acoustic 3050i with Marantz SR5013 avr and speakers perform very well for movies as well as music. Recently Paradigm has phase out their Monitor v7 series and introduced Premier series. Now Paradigm monitor series is under very good discounted price . Similarly Monitor Audio has phase out their Bronze series and introduced Bronze G6 speakers in the market. Old Bronze series is also under very good bargain price. OP may audition them before final purchase. He may get a step above speakers in his existing budget. Before purchase, wait and audition minimum 5 different speaker. You will learn a lot and you will know which sound signature like you.....
Click to expand...

I did some searching online.

Paradigm Monitor v7 : I could not find any pricing in any of the sites. And were out of stock in a few places. I did find a few other paradigm products that were in line with my budget :
  • Paradigm Monitor SE 3000F
  • Paradigm Monitor SE 2000C
  • Paradise Monitor SE Atom Bookshelf
  • Paradigm Defiance V12
Monitor Audio Bronze Series : I found these in HiFiMart. I have received a quote for my current setup from them. When looking at HiFiMart, the Q Acoustics were marked at a certain price and as a bundle I was offered a lower price. I would assume that the same would be true for the Bronze series speakers as well. But, the marked price of these are higher than the Q Acoustics - high enough to go above my budget even if I get a discount when bought as a bundle ?

Are these v7/bronze series speakers a big step up from the new 3000i line-up ? Being a noob, would I perceive the difference ? :)
 
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