Help me correct bass

[liverpool_for_life]

Audyssey set delay at 18.2 feet and that’s what gave the best results with no phase issues

Did you try other subwoofer distances? Audyssey doesn't integrate your mains with your subs, AFAIK. If it were up to me, I'd try the procedure listed in my post above.

If you are happy with this response though, cool. Sit back and enjoy your movies.

 

[Love4sound]

Did you try other subwoofer distances? Audyssey doesn't integrate your mains with your subs, AFAIK. If it were up to me, I'd try the procedure listed in my post above.

If you are happy with this response though, cool. Sit back and enjoy your movies.

I tried with other distance values but while taking measurements lot of dips in the cross over and low bass region. Audysey sets delay for sub output and seems lik it got the value correctly.

 

[liverpool_for_life]

I tried with other distance values but while taking measurements lot of dips in the cross over and low bass region.

With the minidsp in the chain? And starting off with the average of the 2 subwoofer distances?

Audysey sets delay for sub output and seems lik it got the value correctly.

It sets the subwoofer distance, yes. However, it doesn't set the subwoofer distance that is optimum for integration with your mains. As I said, if it works for you, good. Based on the FR you posted, I expect you can do better.

 

[Love4sound]

With the minidsp in the chain? And starting off with the average of the 2 subwoofer distances?



It sets the subwoofer distance, yes. However, it doesn't set the subwoofer distance that is optimum for integration with your mains. As I said, if it works for you, good. Based on the FR you posted, I expect you can do better.

Yeah with the mini dsp in chain. Sub 1 delay in dsp is 0 and 4 on the 2nd subwoofer. The green graph(mains) in the 1st image and the red graph (subwoofer) in the second image seems to match. That’s how I assumed it’s integrated. What else I am missing interms of integrating it with the mains

 

[liverpool_for_life]

What else I am missing interms of integrating it with the mains

Already posted: https://www.hifivision.com/threads/help-me-correct-bass.81900/page-6#post-941411

 

[Love4sound]

Ok I’ll try integrating the center experimenting different values in the avr. Now if I change the values that give the best response for center but affects the front should I leave it as it is? Cause when I tried random values the response of LR where horrible with massive dips.

 

[liverpool_for_life]

Now if I change the values that give the best response for center but affects the front should I leave it as it is?

Yes. Integrating the center with your subs makes the biggest difference for HT.

Cause when I tried random values the response of LR where horrible with massive dips.

If your AVR allows for it, you can set up a different profile with either your L/R integrated with the subs. HST, once you integrate the center, I don't expect the L/R integration to be terrible, TBH. In my case, I only needed to adjust the subwoofer distance by a foot from where it was for the center.

 

[Love4sound]

Yes. Integrating the center with your subs makes the biggest difference for HT.




If your AVR allows for it, you can set up a different profile with either your L/R integrated with the subs. HST, once you integrate the center, I don't expect the L/R integration to be terrible, TBH. In my case, I only needed to adjust the subwoofer distance by a foot from where it was for the center.

Ok I’ll give it a shot. LCR and front sub is at 8-9 feet from MLP. The rear sub is placed 1-2 feet from MLP. Avr sets sub distance at 18.2 and LCR at 8.9-9.1 feet.

 

[ankitbhargava]

Okay, cool.



For HT, I'd focus on integrating the center with the subs.

a. Set the subwoofer distance in the sub 1 pre-out of your AVR to be the average of your 2 subwoofer distances from the MLP.
b. Confirm that the center and sub have phase integration issues (dips that aren't there in either center or sub alone appear in the combined response).
c. Adjust the subwoofer distance (1 ft at a time) and measure the combined response to see if you get an improvement in/around the xover region.
d. Leave the subwoofer distance at whatever produces the best combined response for the center. You shouldn't have to go past an overall change in distance of 7 ft to get the best response.

Enjoy!

would really love to understand why its more important to integrate the Subs with Center in HT setup?

 

[Love4sound]

So I watched Wonder Woman1984 and played few of my regular test scenes. It was the crappiest experience I ever had. No bass and muddy boomy crap all over. But the graphs here I shared yesterday means I should get good bass and smooth response at certain scenes atleast. With huge disappointments I thought let’s integrate center so before doing that I ran sub response and was totally shocked. The graph was so crap and full of nulls in every frequencies. I made no changes so I reloaded the saved settings and again same response. So I tested delay 0 for sub 1 and 1 for sub 2 compared to the old 0 and 4 and got the best pure direct graph. Not sure why the huge change. Till last night 0 and 4 gave the best results and today 0 and 1. So deleted the old settings and applied a 70db house curve with some dB gains in 3 frequencies where there was dip in the input pew.I also level matched the subs to 85 dB. Results are shocking. Please find the new response of sub after eq using mini dsp. Well I am going to leave it as it is for now and check tonight if I am getting the same response and run audysey.

 

[liverpool_for_life]

would really love to understand why its more important to integrate the Subs with Center in HT setup?

In a multi-channel movie soundtrack, which channel is likely to provide the greatest content to the subwoofer in a bass managed system? A good (educated) bet would be the center, which is tasked with the reproduction of 70-80% (depending on who you're asking) of a movie's soundtrack. Which is why the integration of the center with the sub is paramount, as compared to the integration wrt to the other speakers.

 

[Nitin K]

would really love to understand why its more important to integrate the Subs with Center in HT setup?

Hi Ankit,

In the movie "Virtuoso", when the professional hitman is narrating, his voice carries a nice bass weight. At first I thought my center speaker was adding that bass in the voice. But when I switched off the sub, the difference in the voice was very noticeable and not so engaging. Since the center was active mostly throughout the movie, the sub made a big difference with the center by complimenting it.

 

[liverpool_for_life]

Till last night 0 and 4 gave the best results and today 0 and 1.

Subwoofers don't have "moods". Unless you figure out why you aren't getting consistent measurements, this won't go anywhere. Anywhere good at any rate.

Are you using a mic stand with the UMIK? Are you pointing the UMIK at the ceiling? Are you loading the 90 degree correction file that is specific to your UMIK's serial number? Do you make sure you are measuring from the same position each time?

 

[Love4sound]

Subwoofers don't have "moods". Unless you figure out why you aren't getting consistent measurements, this won't go anywhere. Anywhere good at any rate.

Are you using a mic stand with the UMIK? Are you pointing the UMIK at the ceiling? Are you loading the 90 degree correction file that is specific to your UMIK's serial number? Do you make sure you are measuring from the same position each time?

I am 100% sure that no changes where made. Yeah I am using a mic stand and load the 90 degree file.

 

[liverpool_for_life]

I am 100% sure that no changes where made.

Something’s different though, otherwise the measurements should be consistent. How do you get to an identical mic position for all measurements?

 

[Love4sound]

Something’s different though, otherwise the measurements should be consistent. How do you get to an identical mic position for all measurements?

I have measured the height and distance from rear wall. Also since it’s a motorised recliner I can easily get the MLP every time. Not sure why such huge variations in measurements. Minor peaks or null fine but change in delays I don’t know. Either issue with u mic or mini dsp or the new sub. New sub is faulty for sure as it makes a static noise 24/7 through the port. Even when avr is off with LFE cable removed it makes the static noise through both ports. Spoke to dealer and he assured to get a new sub once lock down is over. But when I measure the new sub alone it gives consistent measurements so I am guessing even with this issue it’s performing. One doubt I have is when subs level matched at 75 dB it’s barely audible. The volume knob is kept at just a point above minimum. So may be the sub is not kicking in at such low levels. So I got this new graph after level matching at 85 dB which is also the best so far. I also kept the u mic as it is after taking measurements. Will do it every day and see if getting same values. If not definitely one of the chain in mic, dsp or the new sub is the culprit

For example the first image is pure direct graph of delays set at 0 for front sub and 4 for rear sub in the mini dsp yesterday. Today with no changes made I get the graph in the second image.

So something is definitely broken in the chain. Today morning 6am I was able to get the response as shared in the first image. I shut down only the laptop and system. Left everything as it is from mic to sub positions. So 11 pm I ran 3 sweeps and each time I got the different responses as shared in the image 2,3 and 4. So again I cleared every thing and was able to create a house curve smooth as image one. Only once I get that. So immediately after getting that smooth curve when I run another 3-4 sweeps it’s the same. The response is messed up. What can be the issue ?

 

[ankitbhargava]

I did not touch my setup and MiniDSP settings since November 2020 since I was happy with exercise I did and posted the result at https://www.hifivision.com/threads/venturing-in-rew-umik-1.81299/post-914275

Today just to experiment, I followed

as you did.

One of the parts which was different in this Video and I have never done earlier during MiniDSP setup earlier was to set the Level of Sub on AVR as "0".

Today after I did it and I approached level matching ... I had to really cut down on the gain on both Subs (to bring the level to 75 while Master Volume on AVR was -18db. This was followed by the Gain on MiniDSP plugin (to the sub placed near me).

This messed up all my subsequent measurements. Thankfully I was experimenting in Config 2 tab and I immediately shifted back settings to original Config 1 which I achieved in November.

 

[Love4sound]

I did not touch my setup and MiniDSP settings since November 2020 since I was happy with exercise I did and posted the result at https://www.hifivision.com/threads/venturing-in-rew-umik-1.81299/post-914275

Today just to experiment, I followed

as you did.

One of the parts which was different in this Video and I have never done earlier during MiniDSP setup earlier was to set the Level of Sub on AVR as "0".

Today after I did it and I approached level matching ... I had to really cut down on the gain on both Subs (to bring the level to 75 while Master Volume on AVR was -18db. This was followed by the Gain on MiniDSP plugin (to the sub placed near me).

This messed up all my subsequent measurements. Thankfully I was experimenting in Config 2 tab and I immediately shifted back settings to original Config 1 which I achieved in November.

Ok so if ur not bringing the sub volume to 0 in avr Wat level one should normally keep for the sub in avr for level matching? And also I am taking about the pure direct graph. Why every time it is different. Only once the eq curve is smooth.

 

[ankitbhargava]

Ok so if ur not bringing the sub volume to 0 in avr Wat level one should normally keep for the sub in avr for level matching? And also I am taking about the pure direct graph. Why every time it is different. Only once the eq curve is smooth.

I just suspected that this step might be messing up something
Earlier I never touched the Level of Sub on AVR before configuring the MiniDSP

The steps I followed earlier

Venturing in REW + UMIK 1

Ok so seems like it will be useful for single sub as well. Yeah absolutely.

www.hifivision.com

Check at 11.15 time stamp here, he is keeping the Level of Subwoofer to almost lowest so that later enough headroom is available not unlike the video you are following which asks to keep the level all the way upto "0" in AVR for Sub.

 

[Love4sound]

I just suspected that this step might be messing up something
Earlier I never touched the Level of Sub on AVR before configuring the MiniDSP

The steps I followed earlier

Venturing in REW + UMIK 1

Ok so seems like it will be useful for single sub as well. Yeah absolutely.

www.hifivision.com

Check at 11.15 time stamp here, he is keeping the Level of Subwoofer to almost lowest so that later enough headroom is available not unlike the video you are following which asks to keep the level all the way upto "0" in AVR for Sub.

Ok but how does gain affect the response each time I measure for the same settings. See here for example. The 1st image is the corrected graph. Each time I apply eq I get a smooth output. The next time I run the same it affects 48hz. Either a dip or a peak. Some times entire 45-50 will be full of peaks and nulls. I make no change to mic, sub positions or any settings. Got my issue? In the image bottom right u will have the time stamp as well. These measurements where taken at the same time. For each sweep I am getting different response.so something in the chain is broken