Help me to choose between these MEGA MONSTERS!!!

[denom]

Go to delhi & listen to FM avidyarthy's Krypton K-300 ATL Speakers, am sure you will like them.
http://www.hifivision.com/av-lounge/25562-evening-spent-tweaking-avidyarthys-atl-speakers.html

 

[rishiguru]

Yamaha DSP-Z9 [Titanium Version]

After spending & week or two with my newly beloved DSP-Z9, I thought its time to provide an update of my thoughts & findings. Hence below are the pros & cons that I was able to inspect & find uptil now:

Pros

1) The DSP-Z9 is built to last forever with the types of materials and build quality you expect from a significant investment in your home theater system. The DSP-Z9 is built like a Panzer tank and runs like a Swiss watch. Terrific build quality and a robust feature set make the DSP-Z9 a class leader among the competition. It is about the most trouble-free, easy-to-use, intuitive A/V amplifier I've encountered.

2) The casework on the DSP-Z9 is gorgeous, comparing with the best in the business. The faceplate is formed from a 10 mm thick piece of beautifully machined extruded aluminum, finished in a striking brushed titanium treatment reminiscent of Krell amps. The faceplate & side panel quality are above reproach and beyond anything I have seen on an A/V amplifier. In fact, it felt much more like a handcrafted high-end component than a mass-produced one.

3) The DSP-Z9 internal amplifiers are so good and so musically right, that unless you're willing to fork over some major dough one wouldn't look to separates if you can afford the DSP-Z9. I found the DSP-Z9's power on tap to be bountiful and robust, making it one of the best-sounding A/V amplifiers in the game even today, with overall audio performance not unlike what I heard from many high-end integrateds. In Pure Direct Mode it has a smooth, rich textured sound that is rife with air and possesses striking dynamics that bring songs to life. In Straight Mode a slightly warm midrange and solid bass impact make the DSP-Z9 one of the most musical solid-state A/V amplifier ever made.

4) Incredible power output, capable of powering any speaker on the market today with juice to spare making the DSP-Z9 a very versatile amplifier for a variety of system and needs. It has the power and headroom to be able to drive even tough impedance-load speakers to beyond-cinema levels, even from the most demanding sources. THX's Ultra2 certification backs those claims up with third-party verification that you can trust.

6) During auditioning setup the most stand out & appreciated feature was DSP-Z9s unexpectedly large gold plated 2-way extruded speaker terminals. The plain jane speaker terminals of Denon & DSP-Z11 while being a real pain to use, I was really impressed with DSP-Z9s binding posts as they easily accommodated those rather heavy speaker wires for the nine channels. DSP-Z9 has a genuine upper hand here.

7) The DSP-Z9 except for HDMI, possesses more features and customizable options than even the most fanatical home theater enthusiast is ever likely to need and/or use.

8) The DSP-Z9 possesses a natural, lively and energetic sound that adds a bit of swing to music and punch to movies. It simply excels as a multi-channel listening device, be it for music or movies. The bass on DSP-Z9 was the best in comparison with DSP-Z11 & Denon AVC-A1SRA. Low, fast and tight only start to describe the sound.

9) Yamaha's various DSPs sound remarkably good for an A/V amplifier. To find significantly better surround sound DSP modes, you need to look at A/V preamps costing 200 percent more or higher than this Yamaha DSP-Z9.

10) 1080i video quality is topnotch with the Faroudja processing and up-conversion actually improves the look of legacy video sources, although it is important to note that the video processor is no miracle worker.

11) The DSP-Z9's dual subwoofer outputs, are nice features that more users are bound to employ.

12) The onboard GUI display is essential, not only for making adjustments to the DSP-Z9, but because it is hugely beneficial and easy to use.

13) While the DSP-Z9's initial price was on par with a mid-fi separates system, its performance is more high-end than that of most A/V amplifiers in almost every conceivable way.

14) The DSP-Z-9s pre & power amplifier circuit design architectures & PCB layout are exotic in nature and are found on US $10,000 plus separates. The pre-amplifier section uses a fully balanced wiring for audio signal transmission with high quality gold plated relays to achieve low noise & distortion and feeds the symmetrical driven fully discrete push-full power amplifier circuit configuration with a complementary FET input stage. This ensures fully balanced power output with no signal interference and highest slew rate (rate at which signal changes; affects high frequency response) and balanced clipping. Furthermore, the massive 1,500 watts low impedance toroidal transformer and a pair of high-grade Nichicon 28,000uF/ 80 volts power capacitors ensure a consistently stable power supply. This type of design architectures are extremely rare for A/V amplifiers and are superior as well as more costly to implement than those found in Yamaha DSP-Z11 & Denon AVC-A1SRA.

15) From 1990 onwards to this date, Yamaha has released eight Top Of The Line (TOTL) A/V amplifiers ranging between US $2,000 to US $5,500. From a technical standpoint and purely in terms of internal circuit design architecture & layout I found six of them namely DSP-A1000, DSP-A2070, DSP-A3090, DSP-A1, DSP-AX1 & DSP-AZ1 follows the same design philosophy/ architecture/ pattern as laid out by Mr Izumi Ozeki back in 1990 with his award winning DSP-A1000. I reached to this conclusion after critically analyzing all of their service manuals. With time they successively released newer models which were just a gradual evolution of the former with some more refinement & added features. On closer inspection I found though Mr Masaya Kano designed DSP-Z11 (an engineer working under Mr Ozeki) having a very different circuit design layout & positioning, have abundant traits that clearly sticks to the same design philosophy of DSP-A1000 chalked out by Mr Ozeki back in 1990. DSP-Z11 is more or less like the same candy in a different & more shineier wrapper.

However, DSP-Z9 is an exception to this case, having absolutely nothing in common in term of design philosophy to the rest of the bunch. DSP-Z9's design philosophy & architecture is completely different being far more exotic, pure, unadulterated & performance oriented than its counterparts and it seems to be designed from a completely new ballpark with no relevance to its sisters to achieve never before attained performance levels. Mr Ozeki wanted a revolution for his masterpiece rather than an evolution of his previously designed models. This was also evident when I auditioned DSP-Z9 & DSP-Z11, the DSP-Z9 being a clear winner as far as performance goes.

16) Just the bragging rights of owning the masterpiece of Yamahas legendary A/V guru & engineer Mr Izumi Ozeki.


Cons

1) Heafty price. The Yamaha DSP-Z9 is an A/V amplifier in the traditional sense, but follows the lead set by the separates camp as well. For starters, it's not cheap. At US $4,500 retail, it was one of the most expensive A/V amplifiers one could buy back in 2004. Here there was no Yamaha India back then, so their Indian importer after adding (international freight charge + import duty + warranty + profit + VAT) with its retail price charged a whooping INR 4.75 lakhs for the titanium version. The golden/ black versions used to cost 10/ 20 grand less.

2) Weight is always a consideration with an amp at this level. DSP-Z9 weighs a hefty 30 kilos.

3) Heat is always an issue with big, powerful A/V amplifiers. My experience with Yamaha DSP-Z9 is a prime example. Even properly ventilated, the Z-9s brawny Class AB amplifier with multiple high current outputs ran super hot, while the huge low flux 1500 watts toroidal power transformer located dead center stays cool.

4) Yamahas huge but space efficient twin sided horizontally mounted & uniquely designed anodized extruded alumunium heatsinks are works of art. But there is simply no way of escaping waste heat generated by those sixteen pairs of ubiquitous Sanken 2SA1492/ 2SC3856 power transistors capable of producing 2,080 watts max. The two 80mm silent precision fans situated at the bottom of these heatsinks run at low speed under extreme heat generation to insure temperatures don't melt nearby audio equipment.

 

[rishiguru]

Two images of my Yamaha DSP-Z9 [Titanium Version]:

 

[olly42]

Good write up Rishi the AVR is a killer

 

[rishiguru]

Good write up Rishi.....

Thanks to you & all hifivians out there for the incredible support.

.....the AVR is a killer

Those like me that have fallen in love with surround sound, the search begins for components that create a sense of immersion within a musical presentation. Often, that search results in "separates," i.e. a separate processor and amplifier. Over the past decade with the advent of Denon AVC-A1 series a new type of component, which blurred the line between separates and the average mass-market A/V amplifier, came into the home theater market. These so called "Uber A/V Amplifier" market generally started with a US $4,000 price sometime around 2000 and with time went on climbing US $6,000 in 2006 when Denon released the AVC-A1XV. According to many so called A/V pundits this was the era of A/V amplifier war between four main players in the home theater market namely Denon, Yamaha, Pioneer and Onkyo.

On a very special day this month I was given a really tough task of choosing one of these Uber A/V Amplifier. One on them was the immaculate golden hued Denon AVC-A1SRA while the other two belonged to the Yamaha stable, namely the DSP-Z9 & DSP-Z11. At the end of a five hour long auditioning session, I went with my heart and choose the Yamaha DSP-Z9.

I admit to be a self-proclaimed music lover, not an audiophile. Audiophiles often complain about the sound of digital audio, but I seldom agree with their blanket condemnations. For me, the clarity, low noise, and consistency of digital audio far outweigh any coldness or brittleness exhibited by the medium. And with the advent of high-resolution formats such as DVD-Audio and SACD, the naysayers' concerns might finally be laid to rest for good.

The DSP-Z9 is about as digital as they come, with the aim is to provide the highest possible sound purity; based on a design concept Yamaha calls Digital ToP-ART (Total Purity of Audio Reproduction Technology) design philosophy: to maximize digital quality while minimizing analog circuitry, and also maintains a straight and logical circuit layout for optimum signal purity. This not only holds distortion to practically zero, it ensures that massive amounts of digital sound data can be transmitted at speeds of up to 192kHz.

Yamaha DSP-Z9's Digital ToP-ART

Digital ToP-ART includes a variety of sophisticated technologies, beginning with six ubiquitous & ultra exotic Burr-Brown PCM1792DBR, 192kHz/24-bit DACs for all channels with DSD (Direct Stream Digital) compatibility. These PCM1792DBR belong to their elite DAC category even by Burr-Brown standards and costs more than four times than their lesser counterparts generally implementation by DSP-Z9s competitors.

Burr-Brown PCM1792DBR

These PCM1792DBRs (INR 1,421/- per piece) sums up to INR 8,526 for the six used in DSP-Z9. DSP-Z11s seven Burr-Brown PCM1796DBRs (INR 343/- per piece) sums up to INR 2,401. Unfortunately performance comes at a price, so when used with the same digital audio source an immediate difference can be noticied. Comparing the two the DSP-Z9s sound had achieved an openness and depth greater than the DSP-Z11. There was greater, deeper and richer bass, and the top end had even greater clarity.

The recently released Yamaha Aventage RX-A3010 (INR 1.2 lakhs all included) uses DACs of same category of DSP-Z11. The front, center, surround & surround backs are handled by four Burr-Brown DSD1796DBR (INR 343/- per piece) while the front presence & subwoofer channel gets two lower quality Burr-Brown DSD1791. Rear presence channels provided for external amplification use an ancient Burr-Brown PCM1781DBR.

The Accurate-Touch Volume Control LSIs (Yamaha YAC520) allows us to make adjustments within a narrow range with extreme accuracy having a negative gang error of less than 0.5dB. The volume control has a very wide control range extending from 80dB to +16.5dB, with narrow 0.5dB steps throughout the entire range for delicate control.

The digital bass and treble tone controls have turnover frequencies for the front L/R and centre channels too. This is all fine with me; the DSP-Z9 amply demonstrating with sound clean, clear, crisp, and finely detailed throughout the audible range all the qualities I really like about digital audio.

DSP-Z9 also provides a choice of five specialized signal paths, ensuring that you can obtain the purest signal quality possible. Pure Direct mode is dedicated for pure analog audio enjoyment and provides the shortest signal path and eliminates as many control, processing and display functions as possible while accepting SACD and DVD-Audio inputs. Straight mode is for original channel audio enjoyment without any post-processing. This mode accepts both analog and digital sources, providing decoding but no post-processing. It can handle two channel and multi-channel sources, and the YPAO speaker configuration, tone control and speaker level functions are applicable. The Direct Stereo mode designed for direct two-channel enjoyment. This mode accepts two-channel analog and digital sources, bypassing the DSP and other processing circuits with a dimmed display. i.LINK provides a digital connection for DVD-Audio Linear PCM, Super Audio CD DSD (Direct Stream Digital) and other high quality audio sources.

While Pure Direct, Direct & Straight modes are prevalent even on low end A/V amplifiers, the improvement in sound quality is rarely noticeable. On this Yamaha, however, engaging these modes significantly improved the sound quality. At this price point, it makes sense that Yamaha offers this feature as I suspect most people will use it, or at least try it.

When powering up a top class A/V amplifier like DSP-Z9 one expect beautiful sound and video quality, but also want plenty of raw power. Especially at dynamic peaks, such as explosions or the climax of rock songs, all wants to be thrilled and awed, without a hint of distortion marring the moment.

When DSP-Z9 was released some reputed audio/ video publications did some technical measurements of power output capability and returned with some insanely high figures rarely found in A/V amplifier history. Mind you these publications do not follow the power specs as specified by the manufacturer and instead use personal measurement gear following the strict mandates of Federal Trade Commission (FTC) for both 8 ohm as well as 4 ohm loads. Here are the outcomes:

Max power output before clipping:

2-channel [1 kHz, 1%THD, 8/ 4 ohms] = 224/ 382 watts
5-channel [1 kHz, 1%THD, 8/ 4 ohms] = 201/ 280 watts
7-channel [1 kHz, 1%THD, 8/ 4 ohms] = 168/ 221 watts
7-channel [20 Hz, 1%THD, 8/ 4 ohms] = 165/ 207 watts

While being just awed by this amazing power output figures one had to keep the feet on ground since these have very little significance in real world scenarios. After all who is going to listen at 1% distortion when the amp just starting to clip? I suppose no one. Unclipped continuous power figures with respectable 0.1% THD provided a much clearer picture:

2-channel [1 kHz, 0.1%THD, 8/ 4 ohms] = 211/ 318 watts
5-channel [1 kHz, 0.1%THD, 8/ 4 ohms] = 167/ 235 watts
7-channel [1 kHz, 0.1%THD, 8/ 4 ohms] = 138/ 200 watts

Finally below are the minimum continuous power output figures taken throughout the entire audible bandwidth at Yamahas standard ultra low 0.015% THD levels:

2-channel [20 Hz to 20 kHz, 0.015%THD, 8/ 6/ 4 ohms] = 170/ 215/ 290 watts
5-channel [20 Hz to 20 kHz, 0.015%THD, 8/ 6/ 4 ohms] = 150/ 180/ 220 watts
7-channel [20 Hz to 20 kHz, 0.015%THD, 8/ /6 /4 ohms] = 130/ 153/ 190 watts

Thats a total of 190 X 7 = 1,330 watts of continious power, DSP-Z9 is set to impress even the maddest of the hardcore power buffs out there. Adding to the fact the two additional front presence channels are capable to of delivering 50/ 80 watts @ 8/ 4 ohms each, you get the picture that DSP-Z9 is built to satisfy our lust for power, surrounding from all sides with its seven channels plus two presence (front effect) channels. During audition movies sounded as if I am in the directors chair. One can even enjoy multi-channel sources from only four or five speakers (even without a subwoofer, although this is not recommended), thanks to a 6-4 mixdown mode.

The most impressive fact that DSP-Z9 is capable of delivering large amounts of reserve power for accurate reproduction of the high energy peaks that are especially prevalent in digital audio sources. This emphasizes the musics dynamic qualities and provides a sharper sound image.

Dynamic Power with 2-channels driven simultaneously at 8/ 6/ 4/ 2 ohms = 210/ 260/ 340/ 580 watts

Another point to consider is that because of this high power capability, at normal listening levels the amplifier wont be working as hard, so distortion levels are virtually zero.

For all those power crazies out there here are few continuous power output comparisons:

Yamaha DSP-Z9 [Price: US $4,500]

2-channel [1 kHz, 0.1%THD, 8/ 4 ohms] = 211/ 318 watts
5-channel [1 kHz, 0.1%THD, 8/ 4 ohms] = 167/ 235 watts
7-channel [1 kHz, 0.1%THD, 8/ 4 ohms] = 138/ 200 watts

Cambridge Audio Azur-650R [Price: US $1,800]

2-channel [1 kHz, 0.1%THD, 8/ 4 ohms] = 158/ 201 watts
5-channel [1 kHz, 0.1%THD, 8/ 4 ohms] = 129/failed watts
7-channel [1 kHz, 0.1%THD, 8/ 4 ohms] = 92/failed watts

Marantz SR7005 [Price: US $1,600]

2-channel [1 kHz, 0.1%THD, 8/ 4 ohms] = 122/ 200 watts
5-channel [1 kHz, 0.1%THD, 8/ 4 ohms] = 91/failed watts
7-channel [1 kHz, 0.1%THD, 8/ 4 ohms] = 75/failed watts

NAD T-757 [Price: US $1,600]

2-channel [1 kHz, 0.1%THD, 8/ 4 ohms] = 94/ 147 watts
5-channel [1 kHz, 0.1%THD, 8/ 4 ohms] = 75/failed watts
7-channel [1 kHz, 0.1%THD, 8/ 4 ohms] = 71/failed watts

Yamaha RX-A2000 [Price: US $1,500]

2-channel [1 kHz, 0.1%THD, 8/ 4 ohms] = 171/ 236 watts
5-channel [1 kHz, 0.1%THD, 8/ 4 ohms] = 71/failed watts
7-channel [1 kHz, 0.1%THD, 8/ 4 ohms] = 63/failed watts

Yamaha RX-A1010 [Price: US $1,100]

2-channel [1 kHz, 0.1%THD, 8/ 4 ohms] = 117/ 150 watts
5-channel [1 kHz, 0.1%THD, 8/ 4 ohms] = 54/failed watts
7-channel [1 kHz, 0.1%THD, 8/ 4 ohms] = 34/failed watts

 

[denom]

@ Rishi,

click some pics with the speakers too

 

[rishiguru]

@ Rishi, click some pics with the speakers too

I will, only after I let go of my Sony/ Sharp/ Aiwas and get some good ones. Till now all my listening experiences were based on the auditioning experience I had with those majestic Axiom Audio M80 v3 floorstanders. By now I would have already got the Polk Audio RTi A9 for my DSP-A2070 but DSP-Z9 arrived in the scene and it was a once in a blue moon offer and the money was gone.

After auditioning in ProFX, I have almost narrowed down to Polk Audio RTi A9s for the fronts but you never know. I admit my techno wizardry have mellowed down a lot due the indomitable force from my better half, but still I saved out some time for my hobby and came out with some very interesting discoveries regarding the oh-so-important power supply sections of all the eight TOTL Yamaha amplifiers. The DSP-Z-9 is simply so superior in comparison to the rest you will be just amazed.

Yamaha DSP-Z9 Internal View

DSP-Z9 once again proved to be designed from a completely new ballpark with no relevance to its sisters with the implementation of a 1500 VAC toroidal transformer weighing 10 kilos, with a 47.55VAC X 2, 15A secondary for the power amplifier section. All the rest uses cheaper & smaller E-I Core transformers.

This is just insane power for any A/V amplifier pumping out 47.55 X 2 X 15 = 1,426.5 watts for the power amplifier alone!!! In comparison the DSP-Z11 have 47.2VAC X 2, 10A for the main channels & 26.6VAC X 2, 3.2A for the presence channels sums up to (47.2 X 2 X 10) + (26.6 X 2 X 3.2) = 1114.2 watts. DSP-AZ1 being the DSP-Z9s predecessor has an even lower 44.05VAC X 2, 9.5A secondary with a 12A, 250 volts fuse.

In the end DSP-Z11 with its 10 ampere secondary, having a 15A/ 250V fuse for the power amp section can be rightfully called a high current A/V amplifier but DSP-Z9s 15 ampere is just insanely high and thus comes fitted with a 20A/ 250V fuse for the power amp section!!! This are amazingly high current levels for any A/V amplifier and can be easily compared to high end dedicated multi channel power amplifiers!!!

But when I started thinking about DSP-Z9s fully symmetrical driven, balanced power amplifier section having those sixteen pairs of Sanken 2SA1492/ 2SC3856 power transistors in Darlington Pair Configuration (with a complementary FET input stage) doing duty, easily capable of gobbling those 1427 watts with a sniff and then take some additional 653 watts of steroids if available, all of a sudden everything started to make sense.

DSP-Z9's Power Amplifer High Level Block Diagram

The voltage rails of the power amplifier as denoted by B+/ B- in the above diagram are rather high 65VDC X 2.

The Importance of High Current

Although power rating is often the first thing people look at in an A/V amplifier, high power output does not necessarily mean good sound. High current level is a much more important factor, so DSP-Z9 uses High Current Amplification System with a 15 ampere transformer secondary to overcome two problems common to ordinary A/V amplifiers. In brief, Yamaha High Current Amplification technology achieves low impedance, high current power from input (power supply circuit) to output (speaker terminals). This drives the speakers much more smoothly and dynamically, for better sound from all sources, including 2-channel audio.

Yamaha DSP-Z9's High Current Amplification Technology

This design overcomes the difference in voltage between the power supply and amplifier circuits caused by current fluctuations. This was solved by using a pair of custom-made, high-grade Nichicon 28,000uF/ 80 volts block electrolytic capacitors and a copper grip for one point grounding. Another current drop is generally seen between the amplifier circuit and the speaker terminals, caused by the cables, speaker output relays, copper circuit boards, and so on. To avoid this problem, they used a massive & quite costly 1,500 VA low flux, low impedance toroidal transformer instead of cheaper E-I Core counterparts for DSP-Z9 and gold-plated speaker relay contacts. The result is DSP-Z9 achieves low impedance, high current power from input (power supply circuit) to output (speaker terminals). This drives the speakers much more smoothly and dynamically, for better sound from all sources, including 2-channel audio.

High Grade Construction with Independent Chambers and Anti-Vibration Design

As I found out DSP-Z9 uses a heavy-duty, thick, rigid chassis construction in order to support all the large & heavy duty components and prevent any vibration from occurring. The chassis containing six individual chambers and electromagnetic shielding prevent any chance of internal interference.

Yamaha DSP-Z9's 6-Chambered Construction with Symmetrical Circuit Layout

Two of these electromagnetically shielded chambers contain symmetrical laid out left and right power amplifier modules with the central power supply chamber being dominated by a large toroidal transformer where it ought to me, dead center. The control, pre-amp, video & DSP sections are located at separate chambers as well.

Yamaha DSP-Z9's Chambers

The large aluminum extruded heat sinks have anti-resonance characteristics and ensure effective heat dissipation.

Only the Finest Parts are Used in DSP-Z9

At this degree of extreme sound quality, only the finest parts are used in this amplifier coz each and every part in the amplifier makes a difference in attaining the ultimate sound quality. Particularly noteworthy parts include:

1) Class leading low-flux, l,500 VA Toroidal Power Transformer.
2) High-grade Nichicon 28,000uF/ 80 volts power capacitors.
3) The absolute best quality Nichicon Gold Tune capacitors specifically designed for high end audio are used in circuit boards.
4) High sound quality Schottky Barrier diodes allow fast switching for high gain S/N ratio.
5) Thick PC board wiring with 1.6mm diameter copper jumper cables.
6) Speaker relays with gold plated crossover connections and shielding.
7) 24-carat hard gold plated extruded, large 2-way speaker terminals.
8) Uniquely designed space efficient twin sided horizontally mounted anodized extruded aluminum anti-resonant heatsinks.
9) Exotic Burr Brown PCM1792DBR DACs.

 

[avidyarthy]

hooooooo ... hummmmm ... a lotta data to digest, but, read through ... thanks. Coming to think of it ... our observations:

Whats your room size ... dimensions, I mean? Since, anything less than 400 sq.ft, this acquisition would remain a waste other than giving ownership kicks!

If the AVR is giving off this kinda heat, then you HAVE to keep it out in the open. It seems you have put it inside an open (front-back) cabinet. This won't do! The heat generated would go up ... and the available 4" free space (what I make out in the pic) is grossly insufficient.

Polk Rti9 would give out 'loose' bass, if bass is what you are after. Then, you would have to know which is loose and what is 'tight' bass! Check that out first.

 

[rishiguru]

Polk Rti9 would give out 'loose' bass, if bass is what you are after. Then, you would have to know which is loose and what is 'tight' bass!

avidyarthy, thanks again for your suggestions.

It will nice if you kindly explain between loose & tight bass.

Do you mean to say your DIY transmission line speakers with a single 5.25 inch driver produce better, deeper and tighter bass than a INR 82K, 500 watt floorstander designed by Polk Audio having three dedicated 7 inch bass drivers having a cumulative surface area more than a 12 inch bass driver?

And you are saying this after auditioning the RTi A9's I suppose?

I am confused.

 

[avidyarthy]

The drivers play MAX 10% role in creating either the SQ or bass in ANY speaker .... The SQ is primarily created by the type or design of the cabinet / dabba / enclosure .. whatever you call it!

A Transmission line speaker (any make) would eat alive a Polk RTi9 in ALL departments ... in fact, blow a hole through the Polk! . Don't go by the money spent or asked for .... go with the technology. Also, ask yourself the question as to why Transmission Line speakers are seldom commercialized ... very very few are present .. namely, PMC, Salk Sound, Sugden ... A detailed study to this effect (from you) would be immensely beneficial for all of us ... as to why so few manufacturers with TL products are present nowadays?

 

[rishiguru]

A Transmission line speaker (any make) would eat alive a Polk RTi9 in ALL departments ... in fact, blow a hole through the Polk! .

Have you auditioned the Rti A9? Your comments are incredibly assertive.

Also, ask yourself the question as to why Transmission Line speakers are seldom commercialized ...

This is my question to you as of why such an incredible loudspeaker technology was thrown off in water by hi-end loud speaker companies when this technology, being so cost effective have reaped more & better bass from a 5.25 inch driver than three 7 inch ones?

Companies like B&W, Monitor-Audio, Morudant-short, Polk Audio, Yamaha and a thousand others would have made millions of dollars out of it by saving number of bass drivers which cost a lot. Yet they did not for some reason.

Any yes all the subwoofers companies would have used transmission line technology. According to you a six inch driver would have created 15 to 20 Hz frequencies with ease. What's the use of 15 inch bass drivers then?

Are they mad? I think not.

Wonder why they never implement it. Is it some thing like the wankel engine technology which is found only in Mazda Rx-8 and people buys it coz the car has a wankel engine & they are proud to say that, while top sports car manufactures like Ferrari, Porsche along with all the other cars in the world use reciprocating engines.

 

[avidyarthy]

Have you auditioned the Rti A9? Your comments are incredibly assertive.

Companies like B&W, Monitor-Audio, Morudant-short, Polk Audio, Yamaha and a thousand others would have made millions of dollars out of it by saving number of bass drivers which cost a lot. Yet they did not for some reason.

Are they mad? I think not.

Wonder why they never implement it.

Obviously, I would have ... not only Polks (3 models incld this one) but also Wharfs, MA (Br, Silver, Gold), MS (2 FS), KEF (700 & 900). I somehow was'nt liking their SQs and obviously the pricing (for a 'brand' purchase). Time and again, I was being drawn to the SQ of the TL (a different design) heard at the Navi Mumbai meet last year. If Hari remembers, I had told him there itself that I wanted one of 'his' in the immediate future. Such was the impression created!

By just fitting drivers to a box would provide you with a certain 'sound'. So, till the time you heard 'that' particular sound, you won't ... shan't know what you are missing out on. In TL ... you have to get 'everything' right in the design to get 'almost' everything right. A lotta mathematics is involved here than anything else. Only a person who reveres mathematics would see the significance. Just this aspect makes it a very difficult design to implement ... cut and paste cannot be executed in such a scenario.

It was an invitation to you to carry out the research as to why? A look at the Yamaha details quite easily justifies your expertise at net surfing ... so, try finding out more on the TL thing for the rest of us to digest!

 

[rishiguru]

It was an invitation to you to carry out the research as to why? A look at the Yamaha details quite easily justifies your expertise at net surfing ...

Have no such time now to devote on net surfing. I go by the easy way of downloading the service manual which contains all the every information you will ever need for a particular electronics/ electrical product & get some good internal shots of my amp.

With my trusty Canon I have taken some 100+ pictures of DSP-Z9 internal layout & circuitry which makes it easy to digest the fact and food of thought of the Yamaha engineers while designing it.

 

[rishiguru]

... so, try finding out more on the TL thing for the rest of us to digest!

Flamed by you I did a google search and came up with contradictory comments.:sad:

It seems TL designs are capable of producing trouser flapping bass (I just LOVE that) from just a 6 inch driver due to their inherent design. But they have serious flaws in terms of SQ.

I went to surf diyaudio, the world famous website for internationally acclaimed DIY Audio experts.

Here is a interesting thread : DiyAudio: Opinions ?- Transmission Line over Reflex and Acoustic Suspension ?

When I was a novice and did no nothing about loudspeaker, I posted the details of my Sony SS-GN88D there, and I was fortunate that a very special senior member by the name Ron E took up the thread and explained me the details.

Link: DiyAudio: Sony SS-GN88D power handling capacity

In the end I am no loudspeaker designing expert, but I take Ron E's comments very seriously.

And Ron E says no to TL design.

But you never no. I am just thinking... trouser flapping bass from a six incher. What would happed if there is a 15 incher? Earthquake? hyeah:

Man I am feeling dizzy.:indifferent14:

 

[avidyarthy]

Maybe, this should clear all your doubts ..........

Main Speaker Design Theory compared to Transmission Line - The Classic Speaker Pages Discussion Forums

http://www.buyingloudspeakers.com/Speaker Enclosure.htm

 

[rishiguru]

Maybe, this should clear all your doubts ..........

Main Speaker Design Theory compared to Transmission Line - The Classic Speaker Pages Discussion Forums

forgive me avidyarthy, but the second post to the thread you pointed out says: "Most articles on TLs are seriously flawed, as is the one above."

This means the OP's discussion is seriously flawed and should not be taken into consideration.

 

[avidyarthy]

Univ of Michigan versus an Electrical Engg novice ..... :lol:

 

[rishiguru]

Univ of Michigan versus an Electrical Engg novice ..... :lol:

Unfortunately the "Univ of Michigan" link is not opening.

 

[avidyarthy]

Hmmm, so it is ....

Why not take a peek into yet another TL speaker doing the rounds in this Forum? Resurrection!

Better still ... go and hear one ..... other than more exposure, you would stand to save @ 15K when comparing to the Polks!

 

[rishiguru]

Hmmm, so it is ....

Seems that the "Univ of Michigan" have also closed their chapters on TL design. :lol: