HT in a small 10x12 room at around Rs 3.5L

[k-pad]

Hi ssf, filters are usually not brick wall but come with a slope, if you have a 80Hz HPF filter you will likely get sound at 60Hz, same goes for a 60Hz LPF filter, you will likely get sound at 80Hz. Also speaker specifications don't indicate a brick wall either usually. They often roll off gently below the stated cut off unless it is a ported deign, in which it might drop steeply after tune. Best to see measured response if interested in these things to understand if a speaker with a stated 80Hz cut off spec will actually have any usable output at 60Hz.

So, ran a few of those frequency range youtube videos after switching off the sub.
1. There was not much noticeable roll off between 80Hz and 70Hz,
2. A gentle roll-off from 70Hz to 65Hz,
3. The sound was faint but audible between 65Hz-60Hz, and
4. Nothing below 60Hz.

Am actually thinking I should try the crossover to the sub at 80Hz, which I had never tried, assuming the speakers just dropped off at 80Hz.

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

So, ran a few of those frequency range youtube videos after switching off the sub.
1. There was not much noticeable roll off between 80Hz and 70Hz,
2. A gentle roll-off from 70Hz to 65Hz,
3. The sound was faint but audible between 65Hz-60Hz, and
4. Nothing below 60Hz.

Am actually thinking I should try the crossover to the sub at 80Hz, which I had never tried, assuming the speakers just dropped off at 80Hz.

Sure, whats the harm in trying?

You could also try downloading REW, IIRC it has some tone generators which might help in testing if you have a PC connected.

 

[k-pad]

If that is your goal definitely run extra lines.

Seems a better way to do things, considering the room is bare as of now. Kindda can settle for whatever comes later, but was thinking I'd do the basics before moving in.

If your interested in Atmos, have you read their papers? If I am not mistaken they have some papers on this to help people understand/setup.

You mean their guidelines, or a proper technical paper kind of thing.
The former, I have. Never took them seriously (in terms of angles; but I did read up a bit after Rajith said it all goes south if one couldn't adhere to the angles, either using a combination of elevation and ceiling. And I kindda see how aspiring for front and rear effects could actually end up ruining the experience. Also, having gotten this 3.1 up and running, I do see the practical problems in wanting both front and rear heights.)

So, right now, am in the 'gotta respect physics' boat

The latter, I haven't. Would love to check them out.
A cursory search returned this:

https://www.hollandfilmnieuws.nl/files/whitepaper-dolbyatmos.pdf

 

[k-pad]

Hi all, besides all the above questions, another thing I really wanna lock soon is, *cough cough*, cable.
Sorry Emoji, Aghast Emoji. Curious Emoji.
I really am not a fan of expensive stuff in this particular department.
I currently run 30-bucks-a-metre polycab 2.5 sq mm electricals.
What I am looking for is dual core 2.5 sq-mm electricals, branded as speaker wires, which I am finding difficult to source as of now.

I'll be running them behind false walls in a small room.

Anyone has any tips or places to look at?

(I have done the yards in Bandra East and Irla; but not found them yet)

 

[raghupb]

Try Vashi Electricals

India's Largest Industrial Supplier online

Vashi Integrated Solutions Limited is a One-Stop Integrated Solution Provider for the Industrial Supplies like Wires -Cables - Switchgears - MCB- MCCB - ACB - Motors - Gearbox - MRO Products Online.

vashiisl.com

You may have to buy a roll, but it is worth it since you are doing in wall installation.

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[k-pad]

Try Vashi Electricals

India's Largest Industrial Supplier online

Vashi Integrated Solutions Limited is a One-Stop Integrated Solution Provider for the Industrial Supplies like Wires -Cables - Switchgears - MCB- MCCB - ACB - Motors - Gearbox - MRO Products Online.

vashiisl.com

You may have to buy a roll, but it is worth it since you are doing in wall installation.

Cheers,
Raghu

Best sir!
Never would I have thought there could be a solution like this!
Thanks a ton.
Now, only if they did room correction also

 

[rshri]

Best sir!
Never would I have thought there could be a solution like this!
Thanks a ton.
Now, only if they did room correction also

I dont see any 2.5 sq mm dual core there

 

[k-pad]

I dont see any 2.5 sq mm dual core there

Hi @rshri, @raghupb bhai

I thought this would fit.

Anyone knows if they are good/bad to run behind false walls?

Finolex 2.5 SQMM X 2 CORE PVC Insulated & SHEATHED COPPER FLEXIBLE CABLE BLACK (100 Meters)

Buy Finolex 2.5 SQMM X 2 CORE PVC Insulated & SHEATHED COPPER FLEXIBLE CABLE BLACK ✔ Branded Wires & Cables, Multicore Flexible Cables ✔ Genuine Products with Warranty ✔ Lowest Prices ✔ Free Shipping ✔ EMI ✔ Authorised Finolex Dealer

vashiisl.com

 

[rshri]

Hi @rshri, @raghupb bhai

I thought this would fit.

Anyone knows if they are good/bad to run behind false walls?

Finolex 2.5 SQMM X 2 CORE PVC Insulated & SHEATHED COPPER FLEXIBLE CABLE BLACK (100 Meters)

Buy Finolex 2.5 SQMM X 2 CORE PVC Insulated & SHEATHED COPPER FLEXIBLE CABLE BLACK ✔ Branded Wires & Cables, Multicore Flexible Cables ✔ Genuine Products with Warranty ✔ Lowest Prices ✔ Free Shipping ✔ EMI ✔ Authorised Finolex Dealer

vashiisl.com

I don't see any reason why these will be unsuitable for running behind false wall. You are lucky that false wall is an option for you.

In my case, only on-wall white cable was suitable option for me. I tried everywhere (shops and online) but couldn't find white 2.5 sq mm cable anywhere at all. White electric cables were only available up to size 1.5 sq mm.
After waiting for several weeks, I finally relented and bought C&E 14 AWG white speaker cable. Costed me 3.5K for 100ft. I know that extra cost associated with "speaker wire" label for a copper wire isn't giving me any audible advantage. Sort of paid the high price only for white color..lol

Finished laying it yesterday. Doesn't look as bad as I thought it would -

 

[k-pad]

I don't see any reason why these will be unsuitable for running behind false wall. You are lucky that false wall is an option for you.

In my case, only on-wall white cable was suitable option for me. I tried everywhere (shops and online) but couldn't find white 2.5 sq mm cable anywhere at all. White electric cables were only available up to size 1.5 sq mm.
After waiting for several weeks, I finally relented and bought C&E 14 AWG white speaker cable. Costed me 3.5K for 100ft. I know that extra cost associated with "speaker wire" label for a copper wire isn't giving me any audible advantage. Sort of paid the high price only for white color..lol

Finished laying it yesterday. Doesn't look as bad as I thought it would -
View attachment 66614
View attachment 66617

Looks damn cool.
You could also later try molded raceways in white around these cables...

Also, how are the speakers doing, in that corner placement?

 

[rshri]

Also, how are the speakers doing, in that corner placement?

Actually I am still not sure what these speakers really sound like
At first try, they sounded dull, and the resulting buyer's remorse nearly killed me. Next movie sound was surprisingly better than before. By third movie viewing, it sounded really good. I then realized what's happening - the speakers need time to open up. Manual says that it needs around 50-100 hours to optimize -

The moving parts of a newly manufactured XTZ loudspeaker have been acoustically checked after production,
but nevertheless are not as flexible as they need to be for optimum results to be realized. The higher the
quality of any driver system, the more demanding the loudspeaker will be regarding time for running-in the
system. A newly unpacked XTZ loudspeaker therefore requires 50 – 100 hours of running/ playing to reach
its optimum performance capability. After that period, a couple of minutes before every listening session will
be helpful to “warm up” the loudspeakers

So it will take me around one more month to see how they really sound. However, I m happy with what I am hearing these days.
I think Audyssey is dampening higher frequencies on front left/right speakers to avoid wall reflection. No such problem seen in same rear speakers, which are away from side wall.
Although these speakers are not known to handle sound below 100Hz well, I have set cut-off 80Hz for fronts/rears and 60Hz for Center for the break-in period.

 

[k-pad]

May become a long one soliciting suggestions and advice.

Dear all,
Been passively reading this forum ever since I decided to set up an HT. Trust me I have read so much in the last three months, and now I am left with more questions than when I knew nothing and started over. So, I thought I would share my thoughts here and request suggestions and opinion from the veterans.
Quick details: Room size: 10x12; Aiming to build: 5.1.2; Budget: 3.5L-4L, all incl.

The space:
Like I said, it's a 10x12 room, with concrete floor, and block concrete walls, the long (12') sides of which will be shared with the living room on the one side, and the main bedroom on the other side. Flats above and below.
Have attached drawings of a few options. (Behind the recliners is a small work area. Also, I just saw one of those drawings say Gear Cabinet. It is not to house A/V gear, but motorcycle gear. )

1. The first is a horizontal set up and almost everyone says it is not advisable.
2. The second is a vertical set up, and I did not like the problem the room door was posing.
3. So, got the okay from the home minister for the repositioning the door to open into the living room, so that the TV-LCR wall can be fully utilised. (I have drawn extra rear and ceiling speakers, which will be a later upgrade. So kindly ignore them)

Questions about space:
1. Can I go ahead with the speakers, set up the place and take a leap of faith that the sound will not leave the room - either to the main bedroom or to the neighbour downstairs. (Am a bit of an owl and, besides some 30 minutes of music in the afternoons, mostly play movies late in the night -- not loud, generally at 60ish dB with dynamic sounds touching around 75 dB) The sub I most likely will pick up is the SB Pro 1000.

2. Or should I just blindly spend the first money on sound-proofing the room and then start building the sound system as and when money is available. If I go down this route, could FMs suggest some good, affordable people?
I live in Mumbai, and currently have a rough verbal quote of Rs 550 per square feet including the window and door. (At 636 sq-ft of wall area, the cost comes to 3.5L)

Speakers:
So, I hope to set up a 5.1.2 within a budget of 3.5L with the following rough break-up: 1L for L-R, 30-50K for the centre channel, and 30K each for a pair of surrounds and ceilings, 75K for the sub, and hopefully 80K for the Denon X2700 if I settle on the Klipsch. If the final speaker demands it, then may have to bump up to the X3700.

I decided to go with floorstanders for their obvious advantages and also because commonly available stands bump up the price of any good bookshelf to that of an equivalent floorstander.

The rains have been bonkers in Bombay this month, and with the Covid restrictions, I have only so far listened to the Klipsch RP-4000F and 5000F so far. I quite like them. The main thing I noticed was that when I heard them I did not feel they were as bright as many say. The mid-range and bass were a world better than the RP-4000F. I really liked the RP-5000F. So, it's a definite option.

Once the rains abate and restrictions are lifted, I plan to request demos from sellers in both Bombay and Pune for the following speakers in my budget:
Dali Oberon 5, Paradigm Monitor SE 6000F, the Q Acoustics 3050i, Emotiva T1+, KEF Q550s, and the Focal Chorus 716s. And though it will shred my budget, I also hope to listen to the Martin Logan Motion 20i.

Questions about speakers:
1. Would you all suggest anything else that you personally like in this budget?

Finally, a couple of general questions:
1. Will this set up be an overkill for this room?
2. And, of course, the room sound-proofing, the cost of which will push back the project by a few months. But if it is the only way to ensure peaceful nights for the missus and no complaints from the downstairs neighbours, I will spend this first and look at the rest later.

Thanks in advance and look forward to what I know will be good advice from this forum.

Hi all,
Been exploring interior options and redoing the door is proving to be a bit of pain (cost and effort-wise)
Have been enjoying my set up with the display on the short wall of an anyway squarish room.
Was wondering if moving the display and LCR to the long wall would be more economical.
So, today redid the orientation and tried it (pic attached). Re-reran Audyssey.

Pros:
1. Everything works great at LP.
2. Room looks and feels spacious (pls ignore the clutter in attached pic )
3. This would save me a considerable sum (30K-40K from quotes I have)
4. No need to break and remake a very well built room door.
5. Music sounds really good at LP. (But nowhere else)
6. Gives my LP great immersion without putting me in a major null.

Cons:
1. Low Frequencies are terrible outside of MLP, especially the corners. I assure you, standing there even for a few seconds is a pain.
2. Consequently, a lot of it escapes out of the room.
3. There is only a sliver of space to mount surround speakers - two feet (pic 2; left side, by the window) This will place the surround speakers a tad behind my LP.

Quick questions:
1. Those with horizontal set ups, what are your biggest pros and cons, audio-wise?
2. Other experts, in an almost squarish room (12x10) if the horizontal option saves me a few bucks, is it worth putting the side surround speakers slightly behind LP? (The speaker I am looking at is the MA Bronze, which is a wide dispersion dipole)

Thanks and regards

 

[k-pad]

Hi all,
Been exploring interior options and redoing the door is proving to be a bit of pain (cost and effort-wise)
Have been enjoying my set up with the display on the short wall of an anyway squarish room.
Was wondering if moving the display and LCR to the long wall would be more economical.
So, today redid the orientation and tried it (pic attached). Re-reran Audyssey.

Pros:
1. Everything works great at LP.
2. Room looks and feels spacious (pls ignore the clutter in attached pic )
3. This would save me a considerable sum (30K-40K from quotes I have)
4. No need to break and remake a very well built room door.
5. Music sounds really good at LP. (But nowhere else)
6. Gives my LP great immersion without putting me in a major null.

Cons:
1. Low Frequencies are terrible outside of MLP, especially the corners. I assure you, standing there even for a few seconds is a pain.
2. Consequently, a lot of it escapes out of the room.
3. There is only a sliver of space to mount surround speakers - two feet (pic 2; left side, by the window) This will place the surround speakers a tad behind my LP.

Quick questions:
1. Those with horizontal set ups, what are your biggest pros and cons, audio-wise?
2. Other experts, in an almost squarish room (12x10) if the horizontal option saves me a few bucks, is it worth putting the side surround speakers slightly behind LP? (The speaker I am looking at is the MA Bronze, which is a wide dispersion dipole)

Thanks and regards

Hi all, really loving the LCRs on the long wall in my experience of the past four days.
Besides everything I have mentioned above, there is an openness to the audio that I never got in the narrow set up (LCR on the short wall)

Would be much grateful if you all could point me to the pitfalls of horizontal set up.

(No, if it works for you, keep it ideas please Am trying to find drawbacks before I nail the speakers to either wall )

 

[k-pad]

Hi all, really loving the LCRs on the long wall in my experience of the past four days.
Besides everything I have mentioned above, there is an openness to the audio that I never got in the narrow set up (LCR on the short wall)

Would be much grateful if you all could point me to the pitfalls of horizontal set up.

(No, if it works for you, keep it ideas please Am trying to find drawbacks before I nail the speakers to either wall )

What! No suggestions for the noob?! Come on people, save me from myself!
Jokes apart, dearest friends, finally moving in, by the way. D Please wish us well.

And as of today, I am favouring a horizontal set up (TV and LCR on long wall) in a small room.

@prateekatasniya @Decadent_Spectre Horizontal set up seems to give me an openness in overall sound after room correction (crisper dialogues at seating position, and greater ambient sound), while allowing me to sit where I want to sit in front of the TV.
This was never the case with the vertical position. So, what are the trade-offs per you?

@Nitin K @amrutmhatre90 Am moving closer to you all bros> Please come over and critique the set up soonest.

@raghupb @mbhangui what would I do without you two elders! I am not gonna do anything but put some two-core polycab cables only...This is your last chance to stop me. Sorry to be imposing on you!

For wellwishers only:
Plan being:
1. TV and LCRs on the long wall.
2. That means the side surrounds are gonna be far out (4 feet on each side from the ear at the least) and I am thinking the dipole/bipole monitor bronze is better than a focused MA45 or 90).
3. Ceiling speakers: C165 (Cheapest MA speakers with pivoting tweeters.)
4. So I am very sure that in my room I can't follow Dolby guidelines.
But I can definitely twist the MA tweeter to listening position. I think the angles don't matter as long as we can pivot the tweeter? Please tell me it is so, @RajithKumar[/USER

 

[liverpool_for_life]

I think the angles don't matter as long as we can pivot the tweeter? Please tell me it is so

Unfortunately, the angles matter. Dolby specifies a fairly wide range for the elevation angles, though, so you might be able to still get it within spec. If not, get them as close as possible to it and enjoy. The pivoting of the tweeter boils down to getting on-axis sound from the overheads. If those have a good off-axis response and wide enough dispersion, pointing them straight down is more in-line with Dolby's original recommendations.

Congratulations and good luck with your move!

 

[k-pad]

If those have a good off-axis response and wide enough dispersion, pointing them straight down is more in-line with Dolby's original recommendations.

Kind of what I am thinking I gotta do!
And also, apologies for not mentioning you in the new question, but you have been as supportive as anyone else mentioned.
My Apologies for the missing mention! Terribly sorry.
You, and @insane79 also, come to think of it.

 

[liverpool_for_life]

My Apologies for the missing mention! Terribly sorry.

Wot?! Light le le, bhai. We're all at different stages of a similar quest towards quality audio and video. I try to help where I can, no acknowledgement necessary.

 

[k-pad]

Unfortunately, the angles matter. Dolby specifies a fairly wide range for the elevation angles, though, so you might be able to still get it within spec. If not, get them as close as possible to it and enjoy. The pivoting of the tweeter boils down to getting on-axis sound from the overheads. If those have a good off-axis response and wide enough dispersion, pointing them straight down is more in-line with Dolby's original recommendations.

Congratulations and good luck with your move!

Even if atmos speakers woofers are flat on the ceiling where we can tilt the tweeters?

 

[k-pad]

Wot?! Light le le, bhai. We're all at different stages of a similar quest towards quality audio and video. I try to help where I can, no acknowledgement necessary.

No, bro, you have always helped.

 

[liverpool_for_life]

Even if atmos speakers woofers are flat on the ceiling where we can tilt the tweeters?

Ideally, you want the entire driver unit angled. With a coaxial, this is by default. For the rest, you want the driver for the most directional stuff (HF, so tweeter) at least tilted.