HT in a small 10x12 room at around Rs 3.5L

[k-pad]

Ghee, shakkar and what not, brothers, @raghupb @prateekatasniya!
Finally got a display and tried doing a mock up of the future set-up in current room. (Blessedly my current room and planned room are same dimensions)

Hooked up my desktop L-R (3.5" woofers) and the sub (8" ported) to the TV and boy, they already are filling the room so nicely! Especially at the MLP (7.5').

Am typing this sitting another two feet further, slightly off-axis, faced away from the TV, and I can still clearly hear all the dialogue, and *feel* the LFs rumbling (in a good way)
Towers in this space are probably going to be blowing hot air some three feet behind me, and then hit me on their way back!

Unfortunately, I also realised I am not going to be having any space for anything on the floor. No towers, no stand-mounts
Journey goes on, headed towards on-walls.
From what I had earlier shortlisted, this leaves me with:
1. Klipsch RP series on-walls
2. Revel M series on-walls (very kind of Prateek to suggest; have so far loved everything I have read about them)
3. ML-SLMs (found them tinny)
4. Dali Phantoms (Expensive)
5. GoldenEar Supersats (Read some good stuff about them too, but wanna listen to them defo)

Have heard the Klipsch and MLs and have a fair idea of how they sound. Now, need to audition the rest.
Raghu-bhai, will definitely give some compact bookshelves a listen!
But, having got a realistic idea of the room and where the couch is gonna be, and the space between screen and feet, I really need something that can be nailed to the wall and leave the floor clean.

Thanks to you both and every single person who keeps nudging people in the right direction here. Thaler Zindabad
(I think @amrutmhatre90 is the other among I have interacted who has been telling people to check out satellites/Bookshelves for small rooms)

Now, I don't even know if I want surrounds and atmos, cos, this only has been so overwhelming in terms of experience.
Kidding, of course I want.
Whether I need them in such a space is different question. For another day.

Hi all, missed the edit time limit: so here's an edit:

EDIT OPENS:
After typing this, I spent some time at the MLP and I could swear I experienced nulls there. <Where is the facepalm Emoji when you need one> Played it back again, and I swear it is true!
MLP: 90 inches from L-R, sub placed bang in between them a foot in front.
Rough typing spot:
25 inches behind MLP (Makes it 115" in a 144" room!)
25 inches from the end wall
25 inches from where the sidewall meets the rear wall.
Someone please tell me I have not found some holy non-null grail. (Though I can nicely watch the screen from this point)
:EDIT ENDS

 

[raghupb]

@k-pad
I'm assuming the storage cabinets are movable.
Can the TV and front speakers be hosted on the wall opposite the door?
This will give you some separation between the front speakers.
If so, you may still have a chance at decent stand mounts (5"-7" drivers).

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[k-pad]

@k-pad
I'm assuming the storage cabinets are movable.
Can the TV and front speakers be hosted on the wall opposite the door?
If so, you may still have a chance at decent stand mounts (5"-7" drivers).

Cheers,
Raghu

Hey, sorry man.
The entire layout's changed...
Convinced HM to get cabinets out.
And plan to shift the door.
Attached. (The grids are 2' squares)
Can tell you it's quite scary looking at the distance. In my mock up today (sub another feet ahead of the phantom centre in the pic) I could almost lay my feet on the sub

It's quite clear to me that there is no putting FS or BS at that distance. Will really be hard to do anything on the floor....
And these tiny cheapster/pretenders of an L-R are doing quite well in the mock up...

"This will give you some separation between the front speakers."
And this point, today I understood when I took my cheap desktops which used to be separated by one metre and placed them at 2 metres cos of the TV. Those puppies are singing!

 

[liverpool_for_life]

Someone please tell me I have not found some holy non-null grail.

While nothing beats actual in-room measurements, running the room simulator in Room EQ Wizard (REW) ought to give you a rough idea of the in-response room. Enter your room dimensions, subwoofer placement, MLP and enjoy. Or cry, as the case may be

 

[k-pad]

While nothing beats actual in-room measurements, running the room simulator in Room EQ Wizard (REW) ought to give you a rough idea of the in-response room. Enter your room dimensions, subwoofer placement, MLP and enjoy. Or cry, as the case may be

That's damn cool! Downloading now....Need a mic and SPL meter?

But to to the unscientific ear, all the above stands true, okay.

 

[raghupb]

Yeah. It is very tight with the work desk and recliners.
If checking on-wall, try to hear out:
- PSB Imagine W1
- KEF T series

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[k-pad]

Yeah. It is very tight with the work desk and recliners.
If checking on-wall, try to hear out:
- PSB Imagine W1
- KEF T series

Cheers,
Raghu

Will add these two, too...
The work desk is the thorn in the backside.
Nowhere else to put. Cleared the room much as I could.
But today's experiment with the deskies gave me a lot of hope. Can definitely do at least a 3.1.
A clear centre and a clean sub could work in this room.
Hope floats.

 

[raghupb]

An 8" sealed sub may be able to pressurize the room to acceptable levels.
You will not get the grunt/thump/whack, but you will be able to enjoy your movies and music.
Someone in Mumbai will have a REL T/5 or equivalent.
Check if you can borrow and play it out in your room.

I know an FM who heard the KEF KC62. He said it was unbelievable. But it is very expensive.
Cheers,
Raghu

 

[amrutmhatre90]

That's damn cool! Downloading now....Need a mic and SPL meter?

But to to the unscientific ear, all the above stands true, okay.

You will need umik it is specially made for this, check online YT videos. They will surely help calibrate your system.

Measurement Gear - Home

shop.avenuesound.in

 

[hpdinesh]

That's damn cool! Downloading now....Need a mic and SPL meter?

But to to the unscientific ear, all the above stands true, okay.

For running the room simulator, you don't need a mic and SPL meter. Just give your room dimensions and place the LR and subwoofer at your desired position. You will see how the response will look like.

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

Convinced HM to get cabinets out.

Is that home minister or her majesty? I hear the sound of a hen

 

[k-pad]

For running the room simulator, you don't need a mic and SPL meter. Just give your room dimensions and place the LR and subwoofer at your desired position. You will see how the response will look like.

View attachment 63259

Quite helpful.
This is what I got for current room set up.

 

[k-pad]

An 8" sealed sub may be able to pressurize the room to acceptable levels.
You will not get the grunt/thump/whack, but you will be able to enjoy your movies and music.
Someone in Mumbai will have a REL T/5 or equivalent.
Check if you can borrow and play it out in your room.

I know an FM who heard the KEF KC62. He said it was unbelievable. But it is very expensive.
Cheers,
Raghu

Will check them both.
Was thinking of Rythmik L12 earlier.
I think GoldenEar too had an 8" forcefield available in India. But I don't think it is sealed.
Wish there was better range in small subs...
Regards

 

[k-pad]

Yeah. It is very tight with the work desk and recliners.
If checking on-wall, try to hear out:
- PSB Imagine W1
- KEF T series

Cheers,
Raghu

Should be able to find the kefs for audition.
Will look out for the imagines too...

 

[k-pad]

Hey, sorry man.
The entire layout's changed...
Convinced HM to get cabinets out.
And plan to shift the door.
Attached. (The grids are 2' squares)
Can tell you it's quite scary looking at the distance. In my mock up today (sub another feet ahead of the phantom centre in the pic) I could almost lay my feet on the sub

It's quite clear to me that there is no putting FS or BS at that distance. Will really be hard to do anything on the floor....
And these tiny cheapster/pretenders of an L-R are doing quite well in the mock up...

"This will give you some separation between the front speakers."
And this point, today I understood when I took my cheap desktops which used to be separated by one metre and placed them at 2 metres cos of the TV. Those puppies are singing!

The SPLs too have gone down from 75 dB avg/85 peak to 65 dB avg, and 75 peak...
And, bleed out of room too has vastly reduced.

 

[saurabhpach]

May become a long one soliciting suggestions and advice.

Dear all,
Been passively reading this forum ever since I decided to set up an HT. Trust me I have read so much in the last three months, and now I am left with more questions than when I knew nothing and started over. So, I thought I would share my thoughts here and request suggestions and opinion from the veterans.
Quick details: Room size: 10x12; Aiming to build: 5.1.2; Budget: 3.5L-4L, all incl.

The space:
Like I said, it's a 10x12 room, with concrete floor, and block concrete walls, the long (12') sides of which will be shared with the living room on the one side, and the main bedroom on the other side. Flats above and below.
Have attached drawings of a few options. (Behind the recliners is a small work area. Also, I just saw one of those drawings say Gear Cabinet. It is not to house A/V gear, but motorcycle gear. )

1. The first is a horizontal set up and almost everyone says it is not advisable.
2. The second is a vertical set up, and I did not like the problem the room door was posing.
3. So, got the okay from the home minister for the repositioning the door to open into the living room, so that the TV-LCR wall can be fully utilised. (I have drawn extra rear and ceiling speakers, which will be a later upgrade. So kindly ignore them)

Questions about space:
1. Can I go ahead with the speakers, set up the place and take a leap of faith that the sound will not leave the room - either to the main bedroom or to the neighbour downstairs. (Am a bit of an owl and, besides some 30 minutes of music in the afternoons, mostly play movies late in the night -- not loud, generally at 60ish dB with dynamic sounds touching around 75 dB) The sub I most likely will pick up is the SB Pro 1000.

2. Or should I just blindly spend the first money on sound-proofing the room and then start building the sound system as and when money is available. If I go down this route, could FMs suggest some good, affordable people?
I live in Mumbai, and currently have a rough verbal quote of Rs 550 per square feet including the window and door. (At 636 sq-ft of wall area, the cost comes to 3.5L)

Speakers:
So, I hope to set up a 5.1.2 within a budget of 3.5L with the following rough break-up: 1L for L-R, 30-50K for the centre channel, and 30K each for a pair of surrounds and ceilings, 75K for the sub, and hopefully 80K for the Denon X2700 if I settle on the Klipsch. If the final speaker demands it, then may have to bump up to the X3700.

I decided to go with floorstanders for their obvious advantages and also because commonly available stands bump up the price of any good bookshelf to that of an equivalent floorstander.

The rains have been bonkers in Bombay this month, and with the Covid restrictions, I have only so far listened to the Klipsch RP-4000F and 5000F so far. I quite like them. The main thing I noticed was that when I heard them I did not feel they were as bright as many say. The mid-range and bass were a world better than the RP-4000F. I really liked the RP-5000F. So, it's a definite option.

Once the rains abate and restrictions are lifted, I plan to request demos from sellers in both Bombay and Pune for the following speakers in my budget:
Dali Oberon 5, Paradigm Monitor SE 6000F, the Q Acoustics 3050i, Emotiva T1+, KEF Q550s, and the Focal Chorus 716s. And though it will shred my budget, I also hope to listen to the Martin Logan Motion 20i.

Questions about speakers:
1. Would you all suggest anything else that you personally like in this budget?

Finally, a couple of general questions:
1. Will this set up be an overkill for this room?
2. And, of course, the room sound-proofing, the cost of which will push back the project by a few months. But if it is the only way to ensure peaceful nights for the missus and no complaints from the downstairs neighbours, I will spend this first and look at the rest later.

Thanks in advance and look forward to what I know will be good advice from this forum.

I had a place similar to you. Don’t worry just go ahead and insulate the place. There is adequate material available to that without spending much. An end to end rug will also help.

 

[k-pad]

I had a place similar to you. Don’t worry just go ahead and insulate the place. There is adequate material available to that without spending much. An end to end rug will also help.

Thanks, Saurabh.
What have you tried out for insulation?
Will definitely need some kind of proofing, for reasons explained above.
Right now, thinking of mass + decoupling + isolation + dampening (coming to approx Rs 500/sq feet)

The rug's definitely doable for floor reflections.
Regards

 

[rshri]

Watching your thread, Bro! Exact same conditions and preferences - 10 X 11 home-office room with little space and in a flat where I see movies after around 11:30PM or so. I already have a very old Onkyo HTiB set up here though . Subwoofer is too weak to disturb family/neighbours. Sometimes I think I should not upgrade, otherwise I will be constantly worried about sound levels and not really enjoy the movies.

 

[k-pad]

Watching your thread, Bro! Exact same conditions and preferences - 10 X 11 home-office room with little space and in a flat where I see movies after around 11:30PM or so. I already have a very old Onkyo HTiB set up here though . Subwoofer is too weak to disturb family/neighbours. Sometimes I think I should not upgrade, otherwise I will be constantly worried about sound levels and not really enjoy the movies.

Haha!
Good to know one is not alone in such madness
Will keep you posted, bro.
In current set up, moving the speakers from long wall to short wall has gone a huuuuge way in ensuring very little LF leaks out of the room. It definitely has become inaudible three walls away, which used to not be the case earlier.
Regards

 

[ankitbhargava]

Haha. The missus thinks I have gone mad.
Since you mentioned it, please suffer through the next iteration also
Really sorry to inflict this upon you all

The 3D demonstrations are killer