Interesting Objective test on Cables

[doors666]

Absolutely - you are free to have your own opinion, but I tend to give more credit to a person who has experience vs an opinion. And since we are generalizing considering all things in the world - would you go to a surgeon who has a lot of experience for surgery or one who has an opinion on how the surgery has to be done - worse by googling it or reading on internet.

On the other hand, would you try cocaine if a drug addict friend tells its much better than single malt as he has tried both or would you use your wisdom based on what you have read on the net.
we can argue all day over it, still would be equally pointless.

Not sure that I quite follow your question doors666.
Cheers,
Sid

Just trying to see if there is a pattern in the two camps.

There you go - we have an armchair expert :lol::lol:

As I said, I have tried the cable thingie. No need to try vodoo dolls to know they dont work. Do I have to try rings on cd made with magic markers to know they dont work. or taveez or special stone rings or astrology.

90% of the homes in the US - except florida, hawaii (and elsewhere where they have termite problems) are built using wooden frame. On top of the frame wooden boards are placed, and on top of this sub floor of boards finished flooring of either tiles, wood, linoleum or carpet is placed. Regardless of what the final finish layer is, mechanical vibration travels quite alarmingly through the wooden frame and is conveyed up through the 1 st layer of boards and into the finish layer and on upward. Consequently very vibration sensitive equipment such as TT's - that skip even when people walk floors adjoining the listening room - are recommended to be attached to wall mounted stands. So mechanical vibration in a US room is quite existent regardless of carpet and is a detriment to good sound. Also I have seen concrete floor in upper levels of homes/apartment in India vibrating because vibration can travel through steel I beams as well.
So any and all devices that help reduce/neutralize vibration, regardless of floor type will help IMO. Of-course what component is effected and what is not is, by how much, and is it audible is an individual's call, but simply stating that there is no vibration, or it does not matter is not an informed/logical statement.
Cheers,
Sid

Oh I agree to TTs getting impacted, speakers not on proper stands, even cd players, but they have mechanical moving parts. A vacuum tube gear due to microphony. A cable does not have microphony or moving parts. There is good scientific explanation for these, but not for cables. How come with respect to cables all scientific logic goes out of the window.

when i last researched it there was a science to it called the triboelectric effect where an electric charge is generated by high frequency rubbing between materials like those used in the shielding of cables and the cable itself. many audio companies (most famaous being Be Yamamura..an audio legend/recluse) who identified ways of removing it..I believe Prana Wire does it now...i guess they charge also for the research + knowing that they sell only low qtys try to make as much margin as they can

Not sure what you are saying. speaker cables dont carry low level signal. is it about interconnects. is the charge between the top level shield and the inner cover or between inner cover and the copper layer itself. Anyway, this would be static charge, not moving current, so there should not be a difference.

Leaving all that aside, there are perhaps even other scientific explanation to not having cables vibrate..especially those carrying Low Signals. While I could not find too much of a difference but then My system is not as resolving a system as those those who have found a difference.

usually the interconnects are not on the floor, its the speaker cables.

"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence "

Right, and that also applies to god, aliens, magic, harry potter, astrology etc...

Anyway, this is pointless excercise. we all have been through this plenty of times. the only way for you to convince me is pick the right cable in a double blind test ten out of ten times. If someone wants me to spend lots of money on it, there should not be any room for error. For all we know, you might change your mind if you cant identify it correctly.

 

[sidvee]

Anyway, this is pointless excercise. we all have been through this plenty of times. the only way for you to convince me is pick the right cable in a double blind test ten out of ten times. If someone wants me to spend lots of money on it, there should not be any room for error. For all we know, you might change your mind if you cant identify it correctly.

Exactly - no one needs to convince anybody - the ones who have passion to experiment will continue to do so and those who don't won't. Somehow at the end of the day I feel that the experimenter comes out richer (for his/her passion).
Cheers,
Sid

 

[reignofchaos]

Forgive me if you found it offensive doors - was not my intention.

Anyway, coming to the point, I'd be glad to subject myself to the DBT - my only condition being - it'll be in my system, with my cables and my music.

You get your interconnect or speaker cable that you'd want to DBT with.

Cheers!

 

[sidvee]

How come with respect to cables all scientific logic goes out of the window.

BTW the link at the beginning of this post was precisely to point out that there are some valid scientific tests in Respected Publications to prove cables make a difference - not specifically in the area of the current discord - vibration, but in other areas, which btw a lot of people have trouble relating to as well.

Cheers,
Sid

 

[doors666]

Exactly - no one needs to convince anybody - the ones who have passion to experiment will continue to do so and those who don't won't. Somehow at the end of the day I feel that the experimenter comes out richer (for his/her passion).
Cheers,
Sid

I dont know man, whenever I experiment, I come out poorer with a lighter wallet:lol:, but I know what you mean.

Forgive me if you found it offensive doors - was not my intention.

Anyway, coming to the point, I'd be glad to subject myself to the DBT - my only condition being - it'll be in my system, with my cables and my music.

You get your interconnect or speaker cable that you'd want to DBT with.

Cheers!

nope, didnt find it offensive, nothing to worry.

I would be glad to see such a test. a few interconnects being tested would be good. I would also like to measure the lcr values of the cables in question with an lcr meter (i ofcourse dont have one).

Of course such a test should be with your system and your choice of music. if a person does not intimately know the system or music, there is no point of the test. maybe a few of us could get together and do this. anyone has experience in conducting a dbt?

 

[sidvee]

On the other hand, would you try cocaine if a drug addict friend tells its much better than single malt as he has tried both or would you use your wisdom based on what you have read on the net.

Yes if I want to relate to my drug addict's friend statement, I would try it. Otherwise I would be lying if I say that cocaine tastes bad. Personally I do not want to try it, not because of its addiction, taste, or what I have read on the Internet, because it is illegal, not easily available and getting "high" on a substance is not my passion. Audio and Video and golf to some extent are my passions.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[sidvee]

I dont know man, whenever I experiment, I come out poorer with a lighter wallet:lol:, but I know what you mean.

Just as cocaine good Audio can lighten a lot of things:lol:
Cheers,
Sid

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

I miss my floors getting excited!

Really not sure which is the "hifi," but stuff like my favourite Mahler's 2nd, with that huge finale, is just not the same with concrete and tiles. Unfortunately, having my cables on the floor doesn't seem to affect this.

Sid, I'm with you on the spirit of discovery and exploration, but I'm with Doors too, on stuff having to make sense. I can also instantly argue against myself, saying that what "makes sense" is not necessarily true, what is "intuitive" is not necessarily right. It's often said that "common sense" is not actually very common --- but it's also true that it can be just plain wrong!

I'm speaker-cable agnostic --- but I still use cables that are thick enough to carry power to an AC machine! Why is that? Why am I not using coat hangers?

Ahhh ... life is complicated. And the biggest, most powerful gadgets we all play with are our brains and our minds, and I find them very fascinating.

 

[sidvee]

Sid, I'm with you on the spirit of discovery and exploration, but I'm with Doors too, on stuff having to make sense.

Thad no contest on things making sense or common sense - my issue is simple - one cannot make an informed, logical, non-judgemental statement on any topic unless one has experienced said topic, especially when compared to someone who has had that experience, however illogical or asinine as it may be. That is all. Cannot understand why all the lines being written on a common sense fact such as this.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[arj]

Anyway, this is pointless excercise. we all have been through this plenty of times. the only way for you to convince me is pick the right cable in a double blind test ten out of ten times. If someone wants me to spend lots of money on it, there should not be any room for error. For all we know, you might change your mind if you cant identify it correctly.

No not sure if i want to..its your decision , your opinion and your choice /entitlement
i was just posting some info which i had found interesting..I am happy with my findings and my system

 

[srinisundar]

My finding is this http://www.hifivision.com/av-lounge/30603-chennai-mini-hifi-meet-captain-rajesh-house.html which is purely related to speaker cable

Member who have attended this can enlighten more

 

[square_wave]

Absolutely true! I do not understand this attitude of writing off a product simply based on preconceived notions without actually trying it out. If it floats one's boat, great! Go ahead and get them if you wish. If they don't, tough luck - its time to move on. Many tweaking products like cables are available for trial so there's no buying involved either. It is the arm chair experts who read half information on the internet and drumroll the same that really annoy me.

++++++1 from me too

 

[Staxxx]

Thats crap. I wont ever try the cable lifters, magic markers, vodoo dolls. I dont give a damn who says it makes a difference. If it doesnt make sense to me, I wont buy it. Just like I dont need to try heroin, crack cocaine etc to know they are no good.

About cables, I have limited experience. Havent tried the expensive stuff. I have a pretty resolving system (alpair speakers, topping, ODAC, essence, b1 pre). Have a decent ear (could hear a diff when I added b1 pre, can differentiate between odac and essence, different speakers, headphones etc). I replaced my cheap 100-300 bucks mx cables with diy cables. I used belden 1694 and 1505 cables (same stuff used by bluejean cables except connectors) with neutrik 373 connectors. I dont hear a difference. I gave up. I recently got some wire from apexjr, so might make a few more cables and give it another shot though.

maybe cables make a difference to bad systems.:lol:

So you see, I am talking from experience, not an arm chair critic. Though I am flexible, you are free to convert me by giving me a demo.

I had a little credit left over at a hifi store when I sold my Weiss Audio Jason transport and Medea DAC. I had already put together a rather comprehensive system so with the additional credit I ended up buying cable lifters, I think they are from Shunyata and seem to be made of foam and thermacol. Do they make a difference?.....I don't know. My system is fairly resolving (as a system costing well past the mid seven figures should) but I must say they look cool and they keep my cables neat ))
I also use HRS pads under my equipment (which definitely make a difference in my system, although very subtle I think) ......many of the tweaks I have tried have changed the character of the sound subtly and I have only stuck with the things that at the end of the day contributed to a system with a sound I liked to hear.
Since I only buy on the above approach I have no issues with trying out tweaks and am still looking forward to trying Shakti Holographs, Stein Music active cubes etc. all of which I don't know how or if they work...but when I hear them I will know whether I like what they do or not.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Do they make a difference?.....I don't know. My system is fairly resolving (as a system costing well past the mid seven figures should) but I must say they look cool and they keep my cables neat ))

This is a perfectly valid point of view. Appearance counts.

Accepted that some are open-minded enough, and have sufficient time, energy, cash, devotion and so forth, to try anything. For others, what puts you off? Where, and how, do you draw the line? For me, one example is the kind of pseudo science that marketing departments write: sketchy details, technical-sounding snippets, but no coherent case or argument, and so on. Unfortunately, even the best companies have marketing departments, so this can result in false negatives about an actually good product.

 

[Staxxx]

This is a perfectly valid point of view. Appearance counts.

Accepted that some are open-minded enough, and have sufficient time, energy, cash, devotion and so forth, to try anything. For others, what puts you off? Where, and how, do you draw the line? For me, one example is the kind of pseudo science that marketing departments write: sketchy details, technical-sounding snippets, but no coherent case or argument, and so on. Unfortunately, even the best companies have marketing departments, so this can result in false negatives about an actually good product.

I see your point...I just have to ignore it...or read it and appreciate someone's imagination or expressive capabilities!

As a person, and therefore as an audiophile, I am gullible. Therefore I learnt the hard way that the only way to be happy is to listen and love. There are enough products for me that will give me that and there are many that are not for me, but perhaps for others. But I am fickle too and today's love is perhaps sometimes not forever ! Ahh being an audiophile is complicated....

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

As a person, and therefore as an audiophile, I am gullible. Therefore I learnt the hard way that the only way to be happy is to listen and love. There are enough products for me that will give me that and there are many that are not for me, but perhaps for others. But I am fickle too and today's love is perhaps sometimes not forever ! Ahh being an audiophile is complicated....

Woa! Getting too close to Absolute Truth! Whatever will happen to debate if we actually reach it? :lol:

LATER...


Oh, and here's something that might even fix my hearing... I didn't think people believed in this sort of thing for a hundred years, but I'm not surprised to find they still do. Of course, I am saying this without actually trying it.