Interference or Electrical ground loop

[Vivek Batra]

Just now I did the quick test I kept my finger on the ground terminal bare foot and tried to turn on/Off the lights, no leakage detected even with tester.

Sorry, didn’t have time to go through all the pages but sooner or later you will have to so, get a good servo stabilizer now, should solve.

Trying to find one with conditioning if anything like that exists?

 

[keith_correa]

Just now I did the quick test I kept my finger on the ground terminal bare foot and tried to turn on/Off the lights, no leakage detected even with tester.

Leakage?

 

[Vivek Batra]

Leakage?

If I got you right on leakage, I didn't feel any current bare foot or with tester. Not even slightly

 

[keith_correa]

Yes from company website, its have 3 pin power connector..

L-590AXII | INTEGRATED AMPLIFIERS | PRODUCTS | LUXMAN | Seeking higher sound quality

www.luxman.com

If his Luxman is the EU model, it will not have the blade for the ground.

If I got you right on leakage, I didn't feel any current bare foot or with tester. Not even slightly

No, no! I [or anyone else here] would never ask you to test leakage with your body!!! What I meant was, let your body be the conduit for the ground - then switch the lights on/off - does the noise or whatever still persist?

As backpanel is phono ground touching it will lower the noise anyway by making way for leakage to ground. Isn't it ?

It's Signal ground!

 

[Vivek Batra]

If his Luxman is the EU model, it will not have the blade for the ground.

View attachment 44715

No, no! I [or anyone else here] would never ask you to test leakage with your body!!! What I meant was, let your body be the conduit for the ground - then switch the lights on/off - does the noise or whatever still persist?

It's Signal ground!

Oh ok. I was also thinking why would you give me this dare I just tried it again. Even while touching the ground terminal, the popping comes with light.

About the model, if it's a European one, I would expect the cord to be European as well? No?

 

[Surrealistix]

My Luxman pre and power both have two pin power sockets. I too get a thump when I use the fan regulator. I have gotten into the habit of switching off the fan and then turning the regulator.

I have one phase of the three phase power supply dedicated for audio gear with dedicated wiring running from the mains.

I guess, I should replace that regulator and check if the problem goes away

 

[drkrack]

I am not facing any hum/hiss so far. Its just that when any light/mixer/grinder is turned on or off, I hear a disturbance from both speakers. Thats it. I called up my electrician lets see whats the solution. I will definitely go for a stabilizer may be if with some kind of conditioning as well. Do you know any with conditioing as well?

It looks like a wiring problem to me, The home appliances are leaking the noise to your audio system. Get a dedicated line and Stabilizer now.
Power Conditioning and Stabilizer are two different tasks, I'm not aware of anything that can do both the jobs with equal efficiency. Power regenerators from the PS Audio may fit the bill, but I'd go with two separate devices instead. Servo Stabilizer is pretty economical <15k and that should solve your problem I guess. Another option is isolation transformers but any decent power conditioner should work equally well.

 

[Vivek Batra]

My Luxman pre and power both have two pin power sockets. I too get a thump when I use the fan regulator. I have gotten into the habit of switching off the fan and then turning the regulator.

I have one phase of the three phase power supply dedicated for audio gear with dedicated wiring running from the mains.

I guess, I should replace that regulator and check if the problem goes away

Hi Ronnie

So you are saying even with dedicated line, still there is an interference? Is the dedicated line for your listening room including the culprit fan or just for the audio system. I am almost decided on getting the dedicated line but if it didn't resolve the issue for you then it would be a wastage of effort and money I think.

 

[Surrealistix]

Hi Ronnie

So you are saying even with dedicated line, still there is an interference? Is the dedicated line for your listening room including the culprit fan or just for the audio system. I am almost decided on getting the dedicated line but if it didn't resolve the issue for you then it would be a wastage of effort and money I think.

The dedicated wire is only for my audio equipment. However, it does run through the switchboard which has the rogue fan regulator. I wonder if that has anything to do with it.

 

[firearm12]

The dedicated wire is only for my audio equipment. However, it does run through the switchboard which has the rogue fan regulator. I wonder if that has anything to do with it.

Is it only live wire or both live and neutral from mains

 

[Vivek Batra]

The dedicated wire is only for my audio equipment. However, it does run through the switchboard which has the rogue fan regulator. I wonder if that has anything to do with it.

Hmm, in my case it would be overhead with no interference from old wiring probably both live and neutral, if that makes a difference.

 

[Surrealistix]

Is it only live wire or both live and neutral from mains

Live, neutral twisted in one direction and ground twisted over the pair in counter clockwise direction.

 

[Shinto]

Hi Vivek,
I am assuming this happens only when the switch for the light/grinder is turned on/off.If so, it is a spike or surge due to switching.Please track the circuits by turning on and off the MCB in your switchboard.The idea is to find out if the grinder and/or the culprit light is on the same circuit as your audio setup.If they share the same circuit,you could try using a different nearby circuit(if practical) for audio to see if the problem goes away. I recommend this,otherwise you might be surprised to find out that the problem still persist even after you have gone with a dedicated line.Please do not remove ground etc on devices unless you are an Electrician and analysed the situation/wiring.Also please accept the fact that if Luxman comes without a ground pin, then it is designed to be so.

Hi Vivek ,
Please consider the above before doing anything with your wiring. A dedicated line may not solve your problem.However relacing the switches for grinder and light may solve your problem.And with the power cord issue,if the Luxman has 3 pins at its rear power input socket, then it needs a 3 pin power cable.Otherwise the amplifier should be a double insulated Class II device and will be labelled so at the rear of the unit.Please do not do disconnect grounds etc or connect one to the body of the equipment etc.By the way I am a qualified Electrical Engineer and works in the power industry.The issue with ground disconnect etc is much more complicated than you think.

 

[Vivek Batra]

Hi Vivek ,
Please consider the above before doing anything with your wiring. A dedicated line may not solve your problem.However relacing the switches for grinder and light may solve your problem.And with the power cord issue,if the Luxman has 3 pins at its rear power input socket, then it needs a 3 pin power cable.Otherwise the amplifier should be a double insulated Class II device and will be labelled so at the rear of the unit.Please do not do disconnect grounds etc or connect one to the body of the equipment etc.By the way I am a qualified Electrical Engineer and works in the power industry.The issue with ground disconnect etc is much more complicated than you think.

Hi @Shinto

Just for my understanding, I would like to clarify few things with you before I take any step. As you have suggested to isolate the Audio system from the problamatic circuit. I have two lights in the room where the system is, both the switches are on different switch boards. Both lights cause problem while turning on or off.

The same distrurbace was caused by the grinder in the kitchen. I can do a quick test my self what is connected where.

Regarding the amplifier, its 2 pin everywhere on dac and amp. But I am using a 3 pin plug for the dac, I guess it shouldn't be a issue? Since there is no ground pin in dac either?

Now my question, you said even a dedicated line (from that I mean, direct overhead running line (live and neutral) from the power box outside and terminate near the system and use it) may not solve the problem. Then how would isolating the circuit of Audio system would solve the problem for me? Onething I am dead sure is that the wiring is not right in my house being a 4 decades old house. This is just to be more clear on what to do and what not to.

Regards
Vivek

 

[Shinto]

Hi @Shinto

Just for my understanding, I would like to clarify few things with you before I take any step. As you have suggested to isolate the Audio system from the problamatic circuit. I have two lights in the room where the system is, both the switches are on different switch boards. Both lights cause problem while turning on or off.

The same distrurbace was caused by the grinder in the kitchen. I can do a quick test my self what is connected where.

Regarding the amplifier, its 2 pin everywhere on dac and amp. But I am using a 3 pin plug for the dac, I guess it shouldn't be a issue? Since there is no ground pin in dac either?

Now my question, you said even a dedicated line (from that I mean, direct overhead running line (live and neutral) from the power box outside and terminate near the system and use it) may not solve the problem. Then how would isolating the circuit of Audio system would solve the problem for me? Onething I am dead sure is that the wiring is not right in my house being a 4 decades old house. This is just to be more clear on what to do and what not to.

Regards
Vivek

What I meant was, check if the system is in the same circuit as the culprit lights ,grinder etc by turning ON/OFF the MCB's in your board one by one.Establish which circuit is which.Now let us look at two cases as below.

Case 1: Audio system and light /grinder are not on the same circuit now.If this is the case, highly likely that the problem will persist even after a dedicated circuit is established.

Case 2: They are on the same circuit.If this is the case, try to move your audio setup to a different circuit temporarily( even with an extension cord ) and see if the problem goes away.If it goes away, then a dedicated line will help.If the problem still exists , then a dedicated line may not help. The power cord is fine even if t is 3 pin.

Hope this helps.Let me know how it goes.

 

[balavignesh002]

Hi @Shinto

Just for my understanding, I would like to clarify few things with you before I take any step. As you have suggested to isolate the Audio system from the problamatic circuit. I have two lights in the room where the system is, both the switches are on different switch boards. Both lights cause problem while turning on or off.

The same distrurbace was caused by the grinder in the kitchen. I can do a quick test my self what is connected where.

Regarding the amplifier, its 2 pin everywhere on dac and amp. But I am using a 3 pin plug for the dac, I guess it shouldn't be a issue? Since there is no ground pin in dac either?

Now my question, you said even a dedicated line (from that I mean, direct overhead running line (live and neutral) from the power box outside and terminate near the system and use it) may not solve the problem. Then how would isolating the circuit of Audio system would solve the problem for me? Onething I am dead sure is that the wiring is not right in my house being a 4 decades old house. This is just to be more clear on what to do and what not to.

Regards
Vivek

Try an isolation transformer.

 

[Vivek Batra]

What I meant was, check if the system is in the same circuit as the culprit lights ,grinder etc by turning ON/OFF the MCB's in your board one by one.Establish which circuit is which.Now let us look at two cases as below.

Case 1: Audio system and light /grinder are not on the same circuit now.If this is the case, highly likely that the problem will persist even after a dedicated circuit is established.

Case 2: They are on the same circuit.If this is the case, try to move your audio setup to a different circuit temporarily( even with an extension cord ) and see if the problem goes away.If it goes away, then a dedicated line will help.If the problem still exists , then a dedicated line may not help. The power cord is fine even if t is 3 pin.

Hope this helps.Let me know how it goes.

I'll do this test today and will report back.

Thanks a lot.

 

[Vivek Batra]

What I meant was, check if the system is in the same circuit as the culprit lights ,grinder etc by turning ON/OFF the MCB's in your board one by one.Establish which circuit is which.Now let us look at two cases as below.

Case 1: Audio system and light /grinder are not on the same circuit now.If this is the case, highly likely that the problem will persist even after a dedicated circuit is established.

Case 2: They are on the same circuit.If this is the case, try to move your audio setup to a different circuit temporarily( even with an extension cord ) and see if the problem goes away.If it goes away, then a dedicated line will help.If the problem still exists , then a dedicated line may not help. The power cord is fine even if t is 3 pin.

Hope this helps.Let me know how it goes.

Hi @Shinto

I did a quick test its Case 2, all the culprits are on the same MCB (Lights, Kitchen and Wall outlet of Audio system). I do not have any near by speaprate circuit wall outlet. Not that long extension to test from any other room. But will check this before getting the dedicated line .

 

[arunkvivek]

It is a good exercise to get the electrician to test the grounding starting from main meter box to all the sockets in the house for leaks.
If possible, you can even draw a separate ground & mains from the meter to AV plug point. It is laborious task to draw a new uncut line but did make difference in my case. I also found that the there were two rooms where earthing line was dead as the wire was too thin and joins got worn of due to heat.

Electrician & his helper took about 4-5 hours to replace the entire line by and paid him about 3K (including other ground checking/ petty work) + two 4 sq mm coils of Finolex ~2300Rs per coil (I still have about 50M cable per coil left).

If I were to redo the exercise, I would have done two things differently. One - draw a separate earth line from the panel to the switchboard. Use Lapp cables instead of Finolex. Probably would have costed another 3-5K extra but would have had solved the issue once for all.

 

[Shinto]

Hi @Shinto

I did a quick test its Case 2, all the culprits are on the same MCB (Lights, Kitchen and Wall outlet of Audio system). I do not have any near by speaprate circuit wall outlet. Not that long extension to test from any other room. But will check this before getting the dedicated line .

It is worth checking if you don't want to spend unnecessarily.You can ask the Electricians opinion too.But again if it is not going to cost too much ,and as you have already mentioned that the house wiring is old,may be you can consider a separate circuit.