Is LG a crappy company ?

[god2007]

For the past few weeks for a plasma TV. My questions were answered by the good members of the forum. I have almost finalised in favour of panasonic P42U30D, then I came to notice that there are two low cost 3D plasma TVs costing Rs. 40K. They are samsung 43D490 and LG PW450 42 inch. I had a demo of the samsung at two shops in Kochi and found ok but have no glass with it and of 1024x768 resolution.

I had done a wide search for a demo of the LG PW450 model. I was told that it is a 2011 model and is a very good set. the reviews in the net by foreign viewers also are found good. There are half a dozen LG Shoppes and dozens of dealers in and around Kochi. But the model is not in demo at any of them. At one LG Shoppe at Ravipuram, I was told that they have the item in stock but LG have specifically directed that the model should not be put on display. At all places I was pushed towards the LED 3Ds saying that plasmas are old thing and LED is the in thing. I told them that I am after a plasma and 3D is only a bonus and hence not interested in LCD / LED. After hearing this the sales men flee from me. I have to wander around the shop and leave.

Therefore I finally called the LG office at Palarivattom directly and asked where I can have a demo of this model. The lady who attended the phone after some consultation and 3-4 calls later informed that the model is on display at G MART at Edappally. I went there and asked for a demo. They repeated the old story. They said that the model is in display at BISMI, Kaloor. Although I went there earlier and not found the model, I again went there to confirm. They repeated the story.


My question is, IS LG A CRAPPY COMPANY WHO NOT EVEN DARED TO DISPLAY A MODEL THEY CLAIMED TO BE A GOOD ONE AND FIRST 3D CLAIMED TO BE THX CERTIFIED ?


It is too bad and shameful for LG and bad for THX as well having certified it ?


I do know that we are not willing to purchase display pieces and hence the company's reluctance to widely display the model. But they should have it displayed at least in one shoppe and can/ may direct the prospective customers seeking demo to that shop.

Or if the model has problems, they should be frank to admit and tell the customers that "the model have some problems and is withdrawn from the market." We have no objections. Even Toyotas and Hondas have problems and withdrawing models.

Most importantly this is the onam festival season in Kerala and it is estimated that almost half of the annual sales are done the two weeks period. All companies, popular and less popular ones, are doing there best to maximise there sale. And buyers are blindly buying whatever the sales men are pushing to them. I cannot understand the logic behind the attitude of LG in such a time.

I thought my experience to be posted here so that other members of this forum and other prospective LG buyers be aware of this.

 

[BLASTO]

IS LG A CRAPPY COMPANY ?

Yes. (10 chars)

 

[borg]

this experience regarding the plasma is very common , especially kerala, and the issue is plasma not the company( lg or samsung or panny)
every body asks,why you want to buy plasma? are you crazy? it is very old technology and what not , last year i had gone through the same ordeal and had to promise the dealer i will take the unit , if they bring it from samsung warehouse (without getting demo)

 

[mabhi10]

I do agree

 

[thirurajesh]

this experience regarding the plasma is very common , especially kerala, and the issue is plasma not the company( lg or samsung or panny)
every body asks,why you want to buy plasma? are you crazy? it is very old technology and what not , last year i had gone through the same ordeal and had to promise the dealer i will take the unit , if they bring it from samsung warehouse (without getting demo)

That's true. Its mostly against plasmas. Even in Chennai whenever I enquire about plasma TV's I always get a stare from the salesman.

 

[allajunaki]

Even with city full of AV Enthusiasts like Bangalore, Chennai and Mumbai, we have to fight a lot of ignorance. And 2 years back when I picked up LG42PQ60, I had to buy it blind.

This year is a bit better, they put some basic plasma on display. understand that they will only put stuff that sells on display. its only when more and more people like you start demanding, do they start putting television on display.
Next time if some sales perspn says Plasma is outdated, ask him why the best and discerning customers and video enthusiasts still buy the "outdated" plasma? Is it because years of owning various equipment, they don't know which is better. Or is it that some one who comes to a shop 9-5, selling television in an environment that looks nothing like a home setting and nothing about the underlying technology knows better. I have heard "outdated" argument for past 2 years, why are you still selling them?

One trivia for you : Between LCD and Plasma, LCD is the older technology.

 

[echo77]

In Margao Goa LG brand shop, LG 42PW450 was on display along with 2 other HD plasmas - 42PT560 (the jazz model with side speakers) and 42PT350. He also indicated availability of all corresponding 50" models. Prices indicated were approx 5-6k more than what people have mentioned here, which is kind of expected in Goa (at a samsung showroom, the plasmas were 8-10k more expensive and they didn't have any on display)

The salesman realized I was interested only in plasmas and gave me the 3D demo along with showing me different settings. He was co-operative, even after I told him that I am just checking out LG plasma and will be checking out Panasonic as well before making a choice (Not able to find samsung plasma on display yet)

3D on PW450 is ok, not very great. Anyway I am not interested in 3D at this moment - I feel the technology is still premature and I would prefer to wait for a breakthrough with lightweight passive glasses and more content.

 

[god2007]

When I decided to seek a plasma I was ready for the negative attitude of the salesmen. But what infuriates me is the attitude of the so called "LG shops" which are supposed to be show casing LG products for the awareness of the buying public. In fact it is the "LG shop" salesmen who told me that the company has specifically told them not to put the item on display.
On the other hand the people in the samsung exclusive showroom just opposite the LG shop was more cooperative. Even though I told them that I am only evaluating not buying right now, they showed me all the settings and also played the USB I carried with.

This is the first time that exclussive shop personnel themselves told me that the company directed them not to display a product, which are newly introduced.

 

[god2007]

In Margao Goa LG brand shop, LG 42PW450 was on display along with 2 other HD plasmas - 42PT560 (the jazz model with side speakers) and 42PT350.
........................................

3D on PW450 is ok, not very great. Anyway I am not interested in 3D at this moment - I feel the technology is still premature and I would prefer to wait for a breakthrough with lightweight passive glasses and more content.

How was the 2D experience on the model. As told I am not after 3D. I consider 3D as a bonus on a decently performing 2D plasma. Although I am getting many HD channels, the malayalam channels are SD only. So SD and HD performance matters.
Can you check and post the 2D performance of this model in comparison with other plasmas in the 40K range (panasonic 42X30, 42U30, samsung 43D490) to ensure that I am not missing a good set due to ignorant salesmen. For the time being I am in favour of 42U30 of panasonic. PW450 ought to be a good TV as it is clamed as THX award winning.

 

[echo77]

Note that I haven't seen samsung or panasonic yet, so cannot compare.

2D performance is quite good compared to LCD, esp for SD content. Checked with demo HD content and they had Dish fake HD, so checked out the only proper HD channel - Discovery along with upscaled HD and regular SD channels. The mighty 55" LCD cinema model was next to the plasmas and I could see distinct jagged lines even on the upscaled HD channels on the LCD, but quality on the plasma in comparison was pretty good, probably because it was HD and not Full HD.

The showroom had a glass facade, so switching to cinema mode (it's quite dark - pretty ideal for movies) showed how reflective the glass surface is. You will need a dark room to watch in cinema mode. The vivid/standard modes performed fine - there was hardly any reflection shown, and I had forgotten about the reflection issue until it was switched to cinema mode, so you can definitely watch with lights on in those modes.

 

[god2007]

Note that I haven't seen samsung or panasonic yet, so cannot compare.

2D performance is quite good compared to LCD, esp for SD content. Checked with demo HD content and they had Dish fake HD, so checked out the only proper HD channel - Discovery along with upscaled HD and regular SD channels. The mighty 55" LCD cinema model was next to the plasmas and I could see distinct jagged lines even on the upscaled HD channels on the LCD, but quality on the plasma in comparison was pretty good, probably because it was HD and not Full HD.

The showroom had a glass facade, so switching to cinema mode (it's quite dark - pretty ideal for movies) showed how reflective the glass surface is. You will need a dark room to watch in cinema mode. The vivid/standard modes performed fine - there was hardly any reflection shown, and I had forgotten about the reflection issue until it was switched to cinema mode, so you can definitely watch with lights on in those modes.

So can I take a risk of ordering the model without having a demo ?
Or still I remain with pana 42U30, which is full HD ?

 

[echo77]

If you watch SD content a lot, it may be good to have HD tv instead of full HD. That's my opinion.

As I said earlier, I haven't demo'd panasonic. The showroom is in another city and I hope to do so in the next few weeks. LG is considered 3rd *best* after panasonic and samsung by many, which is the reason I want to compare first and then buy.

Can you wait for Dussehra/Diwali? There may be better offers as well...

 

[echo77]

Btw, Check this: TV Calculator

If I was buying 42" then I would easily go for HD instead of Full HD.

Since I am considering 50", I am a bit worried about the pixels per inch because image area of 50" is 40% more than 42" TV, so you have corresponding 40% less pixels per inch.

 

[venk61176]

I really dont think so. It may vary from state to state I guess.

With regard LG Plasma, I am quite satisfied user so far, it looks great and the bonus is I have LG service visiting me free of cost every two months to fine tune parameters and check TV health.

Its been a good experience so far and not even had any issues with TV for past 2 years.

Thanks
Venkat

 

[god2007]

Btw, Check this: TV Calculator

If I was buying 42" then I would easily go for HD instead of Full HD.

Since I am considering 50", I am a bit worried about the pixels per inch because image area of 50" is 40% more than 42" TV, so you have corresponding 40% less pixels per inch.

I did not agree. For larger distance there may not be any difference. But at 8-10 feet there is difference between full HD and HD ready. In the panasonic brand shop at Kochi ( incidently it was fine tuned for plasmas with low light, no reflection etc) there is marked difference when showing full HD contents. As more HD channels are coming up, (1080i format), I think for a difference of Rs.6K, I choose to go the full HD set. The number of pixel is nearly three times, which will show the picture in greater detail if you sit close, and the source is good. With a plasma I think we can sit colser.

Since you are buying a 50 incher IMO full HD is the way, unless you are watching predominently SD stuff. For this an LCD / plasma is not required. a 29 inch conventional TV is best, despite being out of fashion.

 

[god2007]

If you watch SD content a lot, it may be good to have HD tv instead of full HD. That's my opinion.

True and I agee. But I am planning this set mainly for HD. 1080i channels are growing in number. Presently I have connected my 22 inch LED monitor to a HDTV set top box using HDMI - DVI cable. The views are simply brillient. Even may local SD channels are brillient. the monitor is viewed at a distance of 3 ft.

Can you wait for Dussehra/Diwali? There may be better offers as well...

No problem. But in Kerala the festival season will end and the companies and dealers will withdraw the offers and discounts.

 

[allajunaki]

In Kerala Onam is as big as Diwali elsewhere.
And this IS onam Season in Kerala (Onam on Friday ).

FullHD makes a difference at ~ 6 to 8 feet. I have a FullHD and HD Ready Plasmas But only for Full HD Content. ( PS3 and HTPC Text looks much sharper on FHD panel). Video PQ, I cannot comment, since my HD Ready panel is a basic one, and my FHD panel is fairly high end.

No problem. But in Kerala the festival season will end and the companies and dealers will withdraw the offers and discounts.

 

[echo77]

Ah I forgot about Kerala festivals. If you have demo'd the panasonic and like it, then you should go ahead with panasonic IMO. Based on the content you want to watch and the price difference, The 42U30 is definitely VFM over the 42X30. Check the price-ratio-per-pixel-inch

Most of my content will be HD TV and HD movies. All HD TV content i.e. 1080i is interlaced, which means 540 lines of picture. All 720p TVs support 1080i format.

If most of your content is FullHD, then FullHD is the way to go. I have FullHD on my laptop... from a foot away, i can see absurd amount of detail in FullHD movies.

Yeah CRT is definitely better for SD content. I was thinking of another 37" HD for parents but they only watch regional SD channels, so will probably stick to the 29" CRT.

 

[god2007]

A

Most of my content will be HD TV and HD movies. All HD TV content i.e. 1080i is interlaced, which means 540 lines of picture. All 720p TVs support 1080i format.

I think this statement need some correction. I have seen this comment many a times. So I think following clarification is in order. If there is any factual error in what I am explaining, please correct me. I will edit this post accordingly.

It is not true that 1080i means 540 lines of picture. It simply means 540 lines are drawn at a time to form the picture. The picture resolution shall remain 1920x1080 pixels. What changes is the method by which the TV draw the picture.

In the interlaced scan mode (1080i) alternate lines drawn first. That is the lines 1,3,5,7 up to 1079 are drawn first. Then the lines 2,4,6,8 up to 1080 is drawn. Only after this the the changes in the odd lines are drawn.

But in the progressive scan mode (1080p) all the lines are drawn successively. That is 1,2,3,4,5 up to 1080.

Thus in the progressive mode, double amount of data is required than interlaced mode. But at any time the screen resolution remain 1920x1080. Normally it does not affect us as the scanning is done very fast and the changes are not detectable by naked eye. It matters only when there is very fast change in the successive frames ( not necessarily speed sports).

All LCDs and plasmas are basically progressive scan sets. So they de- interlace the 1080i video to form a 1080p video. These sets generally doubles the frame rate to convert the interlaced video to progressive video. Plasmas are good at it as they are capable of 600 screen refreshes per second, while the videos are mostly 24 frames per second. This the reason behind the advice to look for higher refresh rates while buying LCD / LED. Typical LCD /LED refresh rates are 60/120 refresh per second only.

It true that some details are lost during the de-interlacing. The blue ray disks are in the progressive scan format. Hence no de-interlacing is necessary. That is why they look brilliant. As of now all HD channels are 1080i format to minimise bandwidth.

So a HD ready set still requires to down convert the 1080i video to draw on the screen. The belief that 1080i is truly 540p and the HD ready set upscales it to 720p /768p is false.

Just like we resize still images, the sets can accept any formats and convert it in to its native resolution and refresh rates if suitable circuitry is provided on board.

 

[echo77]

I understand what you are trying to say... in 1080i, 540 lines are available in the image at a time for a fraction of a second and the next 540 lines in the next fraction that completes the picture.

Then, it depends on the algorithm used by the TV, whether it displays 540 interlaced lines directly with alternate black lines (IIRC this happens only in CRT TVs of NTSC type), de-interlaces with the next frame by ?halving?* the frame rate or upscales the 540 lines to avoid black lines.

* Btw I don't get how you say that frame rate is doubled for the de-interlacing method you mentioned. Shouldn't it be halved from the signal rate, to wait for the next alternate interlaced frame? For eg if 1080i is at 60fps it can be de-interlaced to form 1080p at 30fps.

Btw, here is a somewhat technical article that explains various algorithms used in upscaling/downscaling 1080p and 1080i signal on 720p display: Rescaling 1080i to 720p

So, some information can be lost in scaling 1080i to 720p, so it is possible that 1080i signal may be displayed better on 1080p display. But again, it depends on the input signal rate in frames per second as well as the algorithm used by the TV to de-interlace.

Here is another nice article: http://www.highdefinitionblog.com/?page_id=237