Making baby steps into Hi-fi

[hydra]

Thanks guys!

Prem, I'm still using the same speaker cables I started out with: Chord Carnival Silverscreen. I'm planning to borrow a pair of Rethm Silver cables from Jacob once the new amp comes in, just to try them out. Every Rethm speaker I've listened to (except mine, heh heh) has used these. There must be a reason for this.

For interconnects, I'm using a pair that Virenji made for me. I like how they sound very much. I'll most likely stick with these till I find something that sounds markedly better.

 

[prem]

Hi Hydra

Rethm speaker cables are the way to go. For interconnects look at Nanotech.

 

[reignofchaos]

Congrats hydra. Now that you have a seriously good amp, its time to change the source to something serious. I am sure you will now be held back by the rega DAC.

Best regards.

 

[denom]

Congrats Anup! Pls take note of Prem's advise on the cables front

:cheers:

 

[hydra]

Prem, I've been reading up on Nanotec #207 since I saw your post. They seem very interesting, all right! Have you used them before?

roc, thanks! Yep, the next step is indeed going back to square one, and getting a better DAC. The AMR DP777 is the top contender now. I guess another year or so of saving...

Dave, thank you! The speaker cables are almost locked in indeed, but a lot of homework awaits for the interconnects!

 

[prem]

Hi Hydra

I have never used the Nanotech. But a few whose ears I trust do. I use the Liveline Reference

 

[prem]

Hi Hydra

On the dac front try and hear the Antelope Audio. With the Rethms it might be a better bet. Geoffrey of Sound Galleries in Monaco strongly recommends this combo. He is a Rethm dealer. Knows his stuff

 

[reignofchaos]

The zodiac with the voltikus might be a good bet if you can tolerate delta sigma converters. However if you are like me and have a strong distaste for oversampling and noise shaping, it may not be up your alley.

 

[prem]

Hi ROC, all top end dacs do oversampling. Be it Esoteric or DCS or Weiss. Done right, its stellar. The problem is in most cd players a 44.1 signal was oversampled to 196. That will never sound good. Hear a 44.1 signal oversampled to 176.4. Its brilliant. As long as oversampling is a integer multiple of the signal, it should be fine. I have heard the AMR 77 cd player. I was strongly considering it. The Esoteric is way better.

Pl note these comparisons are all between cd players. I have never compared dacs.

 

[reignofchaos]

Hi ROC, all top end dacs do oversampling. Be it Esoteric or DCS or Weiss. Done right, its stellar. The problem is in most cd players a 44.1 signal was oversampled to 196. That will never sound good. Hear a 44.1 signal oversampled to 176.4. Its brilliant. As long as oversampling is a integer multiple of the signal, it should be fine. I have heard the AMR 77 cd player. I was strongly considering it. The Esoteric is way better.

Pl note these comparisons are all between cd players. I have never compared dacs.

There are quite a few that don't not go the oversampling+delta sigma route in the high end space. Msb, light harmonic, stahltek, total dac and of course the philips based zanden, audio note, amr. There might be more that I do not recollect from the top of my head.

In the CD player space, there is also the question of a quality transport. I believe esoteric is far ahead of others in that area. Dcs and a few others end up buying the vrds neo from esoteric.

Similarly in a DAC, the quality of usb implementation matters equally.

 

[prem]

Hi ROC, all studio based dacs do upsampling. Its very important to note that because all your albums are mastered on these machines. None of the dacs you have mentioned are used in studios, with the exception of MSB. I think the MSB top end dac does upsampling. For the lower end MSB models, you have the option of buying an upsampler module.

Since i have heard only the cd players, as you mentioned, it could be the transport which is making all the difference. The AMR 77 cd player also has 5 filter options. But their oversampling sounds bad.

 

[prem]

Hi ROC

Do try and hear a MSB or an Esoteric top end DAC with old hindi music upsampled to 176.4. You will be amazed. It sounds very very close to vinyl. The tonal density it adds is amazing

 

[reignofchaos]

Hi ROC, all studio based dacs do upsampling. Its very important to note that because all your albums are mastered on these machines. None of the dacs you have mentioned are used in studios, with the exception of MSB. I think the MSB top end dac does upsampling. For the lower end MSB models, you have the option of buying an upsampler module.

Since i have heard only the cd players, as you mentioned, it could be the transport which is making all the difference. The AMR 77 cd player also has 5 filter options. But their oversampling sounds bad.

Up sampling is an option on all DACs - some have it enabled by default, some do not. More than up sampling, my distaste is with 1 bit noise shaping delta sigma converters. They sound universally horrible to my ears. Ladder DACs with or without oversampling sound are much more natural sounding.

As for the amr, for CD content one has to use bit perfect ii filter with up sampling turned off for the best sound.

 

[prem]

If you buy AMR, its pointless even considering their upsampling.

Proper upsampling and noise shaping costs. Which is why the MSB Diamond top of the line costs $ 27000. The DCS Scarlatti and the top of the line Esoteric all cost upwards of $20000. Done right its a great improvement.

In the $2000-$5000 range, it might be a different ball game and boil down to a matter of personal taste. One should hear both a AMR 777 dac and an Antelope Audio dac and figure out what floats your boat. The choice will also depend on the kind of music one listens to. In this price range i might personally go for the AMR since i listen to a lot of old Hindi music and classic rock. But if i were into post 90s music, i would go for the Antelope Audio

 

[reignofchaos]

If you buy AMR, its pointless even considering their upsampling.

Proper upsampling and noise shaping costs. Which is why the MSB Diamond top of the line costs $ 27000. The DCS Scarlatti and the top of the line Esoteric all cost upwards of $20000. Done right its a great improvement.

In the $2000-$5000 range, it might be a different ball game and boil down to a matter of personal taste. One should hear both a AMR 777 dac and an Antelope Audio dac and figure out what floats your boat. The choice will also depend on the kind of music one listens to. In this price range i might personally go for the AMR since i listen to a lot of old Hindi music and classic rock. But if i were into post 90s music, i would go for the Antelope Audio

Never heard the esoteric or the dcs. Would love to some day and if I like them, maybe I'll eat my words

 

[ranjeetrain]

Agree with you Prem. Upsampling done right sounds stellar. "Done right" is the key plhrase here.

I have had dCS in my system for last few months. For new recordings, for great recording it doesn't matter which DAC. I can live with any of my DACs. They sound different and acceptable. But for oldies (both Indian and western) dCS is not even touchable by other DACs. dCS eats them for breakfast. And of course it's due to it's processing, whatever it is, including upsampling.

 

[prem]

Hi Ranjeetrain

I never knew you had a DCS. Which model do you have

 

[ranjeetrain]

Hi Prem, it's relatively a new addition to my system. Got it early this year.

I am using Elgar Plus with Purcell upsampler. I have heard a good clock makes a great difference to the whole sound. Now I am keeping an eye out for a good clock for a price I am comfortable paying.

 

[prem]

Hi Ranjeetrain

That's cool. Get the Antelope Audio clock. It's seriously good

 

[ranjeetrain]

Hi Prem, yeah I have following Antelope for years. Came darn close to getting Zodiac Gold + Voltikus. But the luck had dCS written in my palm, so. Antelope clocks are seriously good. But for the sake of visual uniformity, I am looking for a dCS.

Sorry for OT, Hydra