Making baby steps into Hi-fi

rikhav,

most music afficionados ( or audiophiles ? ) do not have the wallet to afford the MRP of the Trishna's either :lol:

sorry hydra .. a bit OT ..

mpw

Mahesh its under 2 lacs if i am not wrong

If you see for sure its much cheaper then making a dedicated music room with treatment

See it this way.

Being in this hobby for some years our tastes do mature , our understanding also increases about various electronics, speakers, music.

What remains constant for 90 percent of us is real estate. I think for 4th or 5th upgrade of our setup we can surely aim for a speaker like trishna price wise

If you like the rethm then there is added bonus of not to worry too much about room treatment

This is just my take and how an audiophile with limited real estate is at advantage with such speakers
 
Hi Magma

It's with reference to the Rethm speakers only. The side walls are not an issue with the Rethms. Would recommend a rug or carpet on the floor and maybe some simple silk panels on the wall behind the listening chair. Again this is only for the Rethms.

thanks prem

the reason i asked will be evident soon

Most of us here concur that the speakers and electronics are 50% and the room is another 50%

well diff guys have diff %'s but you get my drift

but many do seem to agree that proper room treatment many a times costs more than your setup
(and by proper i mean professionally done by a consultant who knows what hes doing rather than a cut paste job of recron , panles, glass wool and foams)
especially if you are gonna "create" the room - ( i.e build the walls etc )

i just took a dive in "creating" such a room

sorry for the OT hydra
had to make sure sure of what prem was saying + thank him
 
i think prem would be the appropriate guy here to make remarks on the rethm and room treatment. His years of owning the Saadhanas have led him to many a tweak to get that sound.

having said that.. to assume a complete bare room would be a mistake. ( no body assumed that here i suppose )

so i think its time for me to come back to hydra's topic and his wonderful musical
world

:-))

no more OT from me here on this thread..

regards,
mpw
 
Hi Sid
In a way that's a boon for audiophiles who can't have a dedicated listening room:ohyeah:

Makes me wonder what things were incorporated in the design of the speaker which makes it what it is

It's like a sports car which goes more faster on broken Tarmac

Not really sure Rikhav, but I talked to the designer/manufacturer himself of these highly regarded speakers so perhaps he has voiced them as such. I also took the trouble to audition the Trishnas as well in an ordinary room, but really did not discern any voicing that would render acoustic treatment superfluous or even detrimental, but it was a quick 1 hour audition so IMO not really comparable to experiences of FM' s here who have really built their system around these. That 1 hour however was a nice experience and visually they are a treat compared to the the prosaic black, or wooden boxes that we always see.
Cheers,
Sid
 
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Hi Magma

I use Franck Tchang acoustic resonators to tune the room. So its not like i do not have room treatment. What i wanted to get across was that unlike other normal speakers where standard panels work, with the Rethms its a disaster. Prior to having the Rethms i used to use Real Traps for treatment.
 
The Rethm Gaanam Hybrid amp went into production last week. So the folks at Rethm asked me if I could let them have the proto back. I took it back to them with a heavy heart.

However, they had something very nice planned for me in replacement.

Yesterday, they gave me a somewhat battle-tested prototype of the current Gaanam Valve amp, that uses 6C33C tubes in the power section, and 6922 tubes in the preamp section. The pre, power and the power supply are 3 separate units. The Pre has a separate on-board power supply, and the main power supply unit and the power amp unit are connected by a beefy umbilical cord. This is a proto amp, and so the three units are built on plywood boards, with the innards open to the elements. The power amp and the power supply units weigh a ton, even without cabinets!

The good folks at Rethm have also been really gracious enough to let me have this amp as a long term standby, till I can comfortably save up enough to buy an amp.

2my0qqs.jpg


I set things up yesterday night, and even after substantial cable rerouting, things are a bit ugly. But, for the first time, thanks in part to Magma's Barracuda power distribution box and to a really long (and nice) power cord bibin3210 made for me, I've been able to have all RCAs and digital cables and speaker cables run fairly distant from all power cables. Even the RCAs or speaker cables or the digital cables don't run too close to each other! (Not that it matters, I guess).

A friend's brother who records in a studio and sets up venues for live sound had suggested that I not coil up the speaker wires, and leave them running long with loose 'U' bends where necessary to run them in the opposite direction. I set this up too yesterday (though it looks ugly).

Except for the way things look, the wire management is now, I think pretty perfect.

I'll spring for a good rack, and wall-mount the TV once I make my amp purchase, and the "prettification" of the wire management can wait till then.

Now about how it sounds! I thought the Gaanam Hybrid sounded great, but the Gaanam Valve sounds even better! You simply can't beat a tube-based power section!

The Gaanam Hybrid had excellent control over the speakers, and percussions were extremely precise and delineated, with great slam. And bass was really tight and impactful, without being physically intrusive. It also had a nicely extended high-frequency response.

The Gaanam Valve I'm using now is a beast of a different character. It seems to have a wee bit less control over the speakers, and the percussion section does not have the kind of visceral slam the Hybrid did. I'm not saying the percussions don't sound good with the Gaanam Valve, but I'm saying the Hybrid had set a pretty high bar for me, for how drum sections should sound, and the Gaanam Valve falls a bit short of that standard. The bass is tight, but lesser so, than the Hybrid. The Hybrid also had noticeably better imaging.

BUT, and this is the 'but' that really matters to me, the Gaanam Valve imparts a certain texture and delicacy and sense of freedom to the music that the Hybrid can't quite manage. And, as important, the Gaanam Valve is more musical and open sounding. The emotions in the vocals come out oh-so-easily! The bass slam is lesser than the Hybrid, but the bass feels more tuneful and enveloping, and more in sync with the sense that the overall music is trying to being out. The Gaanam Valve is also slightly more laid back and warmer sounding than the Hybrid, which is very much to my personal taste.

The stage width of the two amps is identical, but the Hybrid definitely images better, with instrument placements far better etched out. I'm not saying the Gaanam Valve images badly, it images really well! I'm just saying the Hybrid images better. How the system images is something quite important to me, and normally that would have tilted me in favour of the Hybrid. But the Gaanam Valve is so much more musical to my ears that I can definitely take images that are a bit less etched out.

I'd originally planned to pick up a Gaanam Hybrid once I could afford one. Based on the indicative pricing of the Hybrid that Rethm had told me about confidentially, the Hybrid would also have been more within my reach. The Gaanam Valve is significantly (to me) more expensive, but for my tastes, the extra will be worth it. So, the savings account head has now been changed from Gaanam Hybrid to Gaanam Valve :)
 
The Rethm Gaanam Hybrid amp went into production last week. So the folks at Rethm asked me if I could let them have the proto back. I took it back to them with a heavy heart.

The good folks at Rethm have also been really gracious enough to let me have this amp as a long term standby, till I can comfortably save up enough to buy an amp.

That's very nice of them!

The setup looks very nice... even with all the wires. I have 2 home theaters so I know how jumbled it can all get... not to mention the difficulty in cleaning. I remember when my maid "slapped" the sub with the mopping stick... it has been pretty much a "no cleaning zone" since then.
 
Hi Hydra

With the valve you may have to reset your bass crossover and vol settings
 
Thanks, mpw :) I clean the entire house myself, so it's safe. Even if there were somebody else cleaning, I wouldn't let them into this room!

The wires lying about like that are a dust-bunny magnet! I'l probably have to vacuum more often to keep up.

Prem, you're right, as usual! I had to reduce the subwoofer bass levels somewhat. The Trishnas don't have a crossover, only the Maargas and Saadhanas do.

It took me a few minutes to think of this. When I connected the Gaanam Valve, initially things didn't sound right, but then I remembered that the sub-level could be changed. :)
 
Hydra, I am a little surprised. I think the valve amp should image better than the hybrid. Have a word with Jacob about this. It doesn't sound right
 
Hi Hydra, switch off the bass system. Reposition your speakers a wee bit till you get the desired imaging. Try both moving them a little closer and a little further. Chances are you may have to move them by about an inch closer to the side walls. Then switch on the bass and adjust vol to suit your taste
 
Hydra, I am a little surprised. I think the valve amp should image better than the hybrid. Have a word with Jacob about this. It doesn't sound right

Hi Hydra, switch off the bass system. Reposition your speakers a wee bit till you get the desired imaging. Try both moving them a little closer and a little further. Chances are you may have to move them by about an inch closer to the side walls. Then switch on the bass and adjust vol to suit your taste

I'll definitely try doing this, Prem.

I should have thought of re-positioning the speakers myself when the imaging was affected. This slipped my mind completely. I'd kept the speakers exactly as they were, when the Hybrid was being used. The stage width is still the same (perhaps a bit better), it was just the imaging that was in lesser focus (like the focus ring of the camera was turned down by just a half-notch).

BTW, the Hybrid is one pretty good amp, Prem. Regardless of the romantic feel and musicality of the Valve amp, the Hybrid's sound somehow feels better put together: Something like a good looking person who dressed well, but conservatively, and then went to a designer and got a very fab makeover, heh heh. This feel is especially so as far as the midbass & bass response is concerned. I still prefer the Gaanam Valve, though! :)
 
Hi Hydra

I am sure the Hybrid is a great amp. Jacob would not have made one if he felt it was not upto the mark
 
Thanks for your wisdom again, @prem! The imaging is back to "razor-sharp" mode now. :)

I spent some time today playing around with the speaker placement and seating placement. After a bit of playing around, moving the speakers an inch closer to the wall behind them, moving each speaker closer to the side walls by a bit more than an inch & a half (less than 2 inches), and moving the listening seat closer to the speakers by a bit (did not measure how much -- it's more than 2 inches for sure) locked everything in perfectly. The imaging is now razor sharp, and as a bonus now the bass sounds much tighter and faster at the seat too! Because of this, the goose-bump inducing magic of the drum sections is very much back!

I've been playing a 24/96 version of Charlie Haden's "The Private Collection" non-stop for a few hours just to savor the extra magic of the imaging, the bass, and the drums, heh heh! The tubes make things sound so much better!

This position feels permanent enough, so I've marked all the final positions with small squares of insulation tape. I have to note down the exact measurements for posterity now, just in case!
 
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Another update. I placed an order for the Rethm Gaanam Valve amp yesterday. I'm convinced the Rethm sound is what floats my boat. It is a BIG investment for me, but I'm certain I'll only stick to Rethm speakers for future upgrades. So it makes sense for me.

I've asked for the amp to be made to match the finish of the Trishnas - - Southern Oak and Silver. I'm not sure when I'll get delivery yet. Since I'm using a loaner prototype of the Gaanam Valve (an older design) the wait will not be too painful, heh heh.
 
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