Music PC with RME Hammerfall DSP 9632 sound card

[jls001]

Recently I got for free from a friend an ancient PC running Win XP on an Intel D945GCL motherboard, and all of 1 GB of memory. I thought it was an opportunity as good as I'd get to try my hands on making a PC as a digital source.

So I started hunting for a good sound card, something with AES/EBU output, as my DAC cum pre-amp has digital coax, optical and AES/EBU. And I wanted to try AES/EBU as I'm already using the digital coax output from my CDP to feed the DAC.

It was surprisingly difficult to get a sound card with AES/EBU I/O, unless one goes to fairly high-priced cards (say > $600). And I was not yet willing to spend on a costly card without proving the concept to my satisfaction.

As luck would have it, I got hold of an RME Hammerfall DSP 9632 sound card on loan. This is a fairly old card (bought some 5+ years back) and, as far as I know, no longer in production. This card has AES/EBU in and out.

So in goes 2 new 2GB RAMs, and a newly made 9-pin D type male to XLR-M breakout cable to connect direct to AES/EBU port of the DAC. I also had the breakout cable for the S/PDIF (digital coax). Installed foobar2000, disabled the on-board sound card from BIOS.

Last night I tried playing .wav and .flac files from an USB external hard disk drive.

I first tried with S/PDIF output as I had wrongly used a female 9 pin D connector instead of a male for the AES breakout. I didn't play from S/PDIF long enough to form a proper and coherent impression. After quickly re-soldering the correct D-type connector, I tried the AES/EBU out.

Initial impressions are good. It sounded more forward compared to the S/PDIF from the same sound card, so I ended moving my listening chair back by almost a feet.

Compared to the Marantz CD6003 as a transport giving S/PDIF output to DAC, I could hear better mids, and the quality of lows improved too, while the bass tightened up and gained a bit of amplitude. Imaging also improved. After an extended listening of almost 2 hours by which time both pre and power had attained proper operating temperatures, a faster attack was discernible along with a more natural decay (especially on cymbals and high hats). I also felt that familiar numbers played with greater urgency. I don't know if that's what one would quantify as better PRaT. This will take some getting used to as the overall speed seems to be a bit faster. I felt the same way when I moved from a Pioneer DD TT to a Thorens TD 160. The Thorens played with more sense of urgency so playing speed seemed to have gone up.

All in all, a worthy proof of concept. It is not as if I did not believe in computer playout - I have seen what Shanti uses and I am a convert ever since. Just that I still had doubts on how I could implement it successfully for myself.

FWIW, I used a Belden 1800 (IIRC model number), 2-core shielded digital cable (roughly 2 m long), Neutrik XLR connector and an old, cheap and garden variety D-type connector for the exercise. The S/PDIF breakout is the original which came with the card.

Some questions: I have seen WASAPI discussed a lot in other foobar related threads. Is it available now for XP? Is there substantial improvement over non-WASAPI or ASIO?
Joshua

 

[hydra]

Thanks for a nice review! Nice sound card :licklips:

WASAPI is available only with Windows 7 (and with Vista too, I think). With Windows XP, you'll need to use ASIO.

Yes, using Foobar with ASIO improves things substantially (over not using ASIO). And IMHO, Foobar with WASAPI sounds even better

Just curious: Could you mention the DAC you are using?

 

[jls001]

Nice review! Nice card :licklips:

WASAPI is available only with Windows 7. With Windows XP, you'll need to use ASIO.

Yes, using Foobar with ASIO improves things substantially (over not using ASIO). And IMHO, Foobar with WASAPI sounds even better

Just curious, which DAC are you using?

@hydra: thanks for the info on WASAPI and ASIO. I guess that calls for an upgrade to Win 7 (high time, I guess)

DAC: actually this is not a standalone DAC. This is the Audioaero Capitole Reference SE CDP which has inbuilt DAC, 24/192 upsampler, a 32 bit custom "STARS" DSP chip to improve the sound from CD to near-SACD quality and extract minute details from CDs (not my words, this is from the blurb!), and a tube pre-amp.

 

[hydra]

Yes, I'd definitely suggest a Win 7 upgrade. WASAPI is worth the extra effort.

I remember reading earlier that the Hammerfall does not take too well to ASIO with Foobar. I managed to find where I read it: The Absolute Sound Card Survey (TAS 213) | AVguide
(please see the 4th paragraph)

ASIO4ALL is all right, but I've found WASAPI to be far better. Perhaps this is even more reason for moving to Win 7.

If you'll be using the PC for music only, I'd suggest using Win 7 Starter or Win 7 Home Basic (there's very little feature bloat). I use Win 7 Home Basic in my Music PC.

That's some CD Player you've got there!

 

[iaudio]

joshua, thanks for sharing your pc audio experience with us. I am someone who is quite keen to move to pc audio and after listening to Hydra's s setup I am once again trying to figure out the best way for myself to make the move.

Yep, wasapi is available for vista too. I use it with foobar to output to my nuforce udac. But when you have win 7 dont even look at vista!

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

>>> Hammerfall DSP 9632

The HDSP 9632 provides unique features:

Balanced stereo analog in- and output, 24-Bit/192kHz, > 110 dB SNR
Optional analog expansion boards with 4 balanced in- or outputs
All analog I/Os capable of 192 kHz, constant number of available channels
1 ADAT digital I/O, supporting 96 kHz S/MUX operation
1 SPDIF digital I/O, 192 kHz-capable
1 Breakout cable for coaxial SPDIF*
Up to 16 I/Os can be used simultaneously!
1 Stereo headphone output, parallel to the analog out, additional level settings
1 MIDI I/O with 16 channels of hi-speed MIDI via breakout cable
DIGICheck, RMEs unique metering- and analysing tool
HDSP Meter Bridge: freely scalable level meters, peak- and RMS calculation directly in hardware
TotalMix: 512 channel Mixer with 40 Bit internal resolution

please please please... try the card's analogue-out from its own DAC. This is pro-grade equipment, and you might be very surprised!

I bought a previous-generation RME card, at a good discount, as it was already obsolescent, and loved it. This was some time before the stand-alone DAC craze hit the market, but it blew away my Cyrus CD player.

You're making your own break-out cables for this? That is a job I would not like to do --- or, to put it another way, would not be much good at. Apart from that, where's the 'green with envy' smiley?

I am a huge RME fan, except for one thing: thy have left the simple 2-in/2-out market pretty-much behind, and even the lower end of their range is too expensive for me, and I'd be paying heaps of money for heaps of stuff I don't need.


EDIT: Check the RME site for latest drivers, if you have not done so before. Even the firmware may have an update available. You probably did all this stuff anyway. I'd be loathe to use anything other than their own drivers, because... because... well, because RME is, like god! :lol: OK, I admit to being a fanboy --- but they are seriously professional.

And they don't support my old, old card past WinXP, but that's ok because Ubuntu does (and I'm using an Echo Audiofire interface now, anyway)

PS... still very much available, it seems.
.

 

[jls001]

please please please... try the card's analogue-out from its own DAC. This is pro-grade equipment, and you might be very surprised!

I bought a previous-generation RME card, at a good discount, as it was already obsolescent, and loved it. This was some time before the stand-alone DAC craze hit the market, but it blew away my Cyrus CD player.

I will try both single-ended and balanced analog outputs.

I bought a previous-generation RME card, at a good discount, as it was already obsolescent, and loved it. This was some time before the stand-alone DAC craze hit the market, but it blew away my Cyrus CD player.

That's saying something as Cyruses are known to be quite good.

You're making your own break-out cables for this? That is a job I would not like to do --- or, to put it another way, would not be much good at. Apart from that, where's the 'green with envy' smiley?

I am a huge RME fan, except for one thing: thy have left the simple 2-in/2-out market pretty-much behind, and even the lower end of their range is too expensive for me, and I'd be paying heaps of money for heaps of stuff I don't need.

Making the breakout cable is not as complicated as it sounds 3 pins on the D connector end, 3 pins at XLR end. Of course I need to find a better D connector as the one I used is "borrowed" from the first available 9-pin to 9-pin cable and has signs of rusting.

Nowadays a studio grade sound card a multitude of inputs to cater to most needs. 16 in/out, or even 32 in/out are quite commonplace. I guess 2 in/out will need to be specially commissioned

EDIT: Check the RME site for latest drivers, if you have not done so before. Even the firmware may have an update available. You probably did all this stuff anyway. I'd be loathe to use anything other than their own drivers, because... because... well, because RME is, like god! :lol: OK, I admit to being a fanboy --- but they are seriously professional.

The driver is downloaded from the RME site.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

I loved, and still love my Cyrus amplifier. The CD was a little cool sounding, and I wasn't that sad to "down-grade" back to my entry-level Marantz when it broke down and I decided not to spend money on it. The RME DIGI 96/8 PST gave a fuller, and warmer sound. I cabled it, analogue and optical-digital, to various components of the hifi and used it a lot, in those days. Truth to tell, however good the PC sound was, it was still easier to sit back in the armchair with the CD remote!

Was there no chance of getting the cable tails with yours? well, borrowed: is it going to become yours? They provide the pin-outs for the cables?

They have a forum too, which might come in useful.

 

[jls001]

Was there no chance of getting the cable tails with yours? well, borrowed: is it going to become yours? They provide the pin-outs for the cables?

The idea is to ask nicely to make it mine

The pinout is available in the PDF manual itself. A bit lengthy, but very detailed, mostly useless (for me) info like how to configure mix settings. May become useful in far future as I have a very valuable cassette I want to digitise.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

The pinout is available in the PDF manual itself.

That's nice that they give the information, rather than making people buy expensive spares.

On the other hand, apparently they will not offer any Linux support on their latest USB gear. One can understand that they do not want to open-source technical secrets, but it is s shame they will not even issue closed drivers. Oh well... at least I don't have to worry about saving up for one of these! :lol:

 

[spirovious]

How can be a sound from analoge out from card & direct comparison to CD6003 analoge out?ie card compared to CDP?

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Also interested in that comparison ...but jls001 has to make his own cable for all these different connections, so we might have to be patient!

 

[jls001]

Also interested in that comparison ...but jls001 has to make his own cable for all these different connections, so we might have to be patient!

I think the second breakout cable (still in unopened plastic pack) has the analog RCA outputs, but not the balanced XLR analogs. It does have a headphone out as well (along with DIN connections for MIDI or A/DAT in and out), so a comparo with the CD6003's headphone out should also be possible, though I must say I have never been impressed with the CD6003's headphone out (I use a Sennheiser HD215 studio headphone). So comparision with CD6003 should be possible on equal footing (RCA unbalanced analog out and headphone out). I was hoping to listen the XLR analog outs, but I guess it's now too much work making a new breakout cable

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

I was hoping to listen the XLR analog outs

Balanced ins are not very common on domestic equipment: what would you connect them to? Perhaps, like me, you have something like monitor speakers with balanced inputs? --- or a very fancy amplifier?

I don't know that there is any great advantage of balanced cabling for very short lengths such as the interconnects in a domestic system. I think you should hear the quality of the card, and specifically the DAC, perfectly well from the unbalanced output.

If I am wrong in that reasoning, I welcome correction: this is the sort of thing I am enjoying learning about!

 

[jls001]

Balanced ins are not very common on domestic equipment: what would you connect them to? Perhaps, like me, you have something like monitor speakers with balanced inputs? --- or a very fancy amplifier?

I don't know that there is any great advantage of balanced cabling for very short lengths such as the interconnects in a domestic system. I think you should hear the quality of the card, and specifically the DAC, perfectly well from the unbalanced output.

If I am wrong in that reasoning, I welcome correction: this is the sort of thing I am enjoying learning about!

Pre does have balanced XLR analog in. But power amp has only unbalanced so any sonic gain (hoping that there is some over the unbalanced inputs) from balanced is nullified after it exits the pre!

Main advantage of balanced cables is elimination of common-mode noise which is why they are so essential in (electrically) crowded and (electrically) noisy studio environments where low level signals from mics are especially susceptible to degradation. One more advantage is the much higher signal level (I think 6 dB higher than unbalanced).

 

[jls001]

Balanced ins are not very common on domestic equipment: what would you connect them to? Perhaps, like me, you have something like monitor speakers with balanced inputs? --- or a very fancy amplifier?

BTW, which monitor speakers do you use? Do you listen close to the speakers or sit back?

It would be nice to have something like a Genelec 8050a or a Dunaudio BM6a doing audio duty in the home listening room. No more need to worry about power amp (at least till the next bug bites).

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Entry-level monitors: M-Audio A-40. Not at all bad, though! I sit close, as I use them as computer speakers. Really, no hifi here, as the speakers and I are in an alcove, with a wall behind them and a wall behind me: it can be more like sitting inside a speaker! It's OK. except when there's a lot of bass. What I should have done is got the smallest-woofer speakers. I could improve things a heap by turning myself and my setup 90 degrees to the right, but I don't want to sit with my back to the room

They are connected with balanced cables, because they get their sound from an Echo AudioFire2 interface. It gets its balanced input from a Spirit Notepad mixer. I have no current use for the 4 mono/mic inputs, but use the two stereo inputs for tape and TT. Connecting the interface out to the speakers via the mixer would be possible (I used to, with my RME card) but, for casual listening, it means turning something else on, where as the Audiofire is PC-powered via Firewire and has its own headphone-out, with volume control. I have the makings of a home studio --- but unfortunately, no family band to record :lol:

I used to use the phono-stage built in to the Spirit mixer, but it wasn't very good: I recently got a Musical Fidelity V-LPS II. An improvement, and great value for money.

My monitor speaker ambitions would include KRK and Adam. KRK, I fell in love with in the shop when I bought the M-Audios: wonderful, natural, clean sound, but way outside my budget. That was in Singapore: I've discovered recently they are available much cheaper internet/UK --- but I haven't been to UK for over two years. I've never actually heard the Adams.

 

[jls001]

I have been trying to get the foobar2000 remotely controlled using my Android phone. I went and (rather) bravely bought a wifi dongle, without asking anyone knowledgeable whether it can be used as wifi hotspot (which, on hindsight, I had assumed wrongly!). A friend from IT dept did some R&D and came up with Connectify application which is supposed to turn a PC/Laptop's wifi into a hotspot. We tried hard to make the dongle into a wifi router but somehow could not succeed.

So last night I ended up buying a D-Link wireless router (N 150 model) and finally got my Android talking to the PC. I had downloaded foodroid for remotely accessing the music PC. After installing the required plugins to foobar and entering all the required settings, the foodroid resolutely refused to communicate with the PC. In desperation I changed the port from the recommended 8888 to 80 and was able to use the phone's Opera web browser to control the foobar running on the PC. But the android's default inbuilt browser still refused to talk to the PC. After a reset of the Android browser, it all started talking to the PC. It looks like my version of foobar does not work with the current version of foodroid.

Using the browser to control the foobar is still not a very nice experience, but better than having to repeatedly go to the PC to change playlist. The main problem now is that every time one performs an operation on the phone screen, the display resets to a very tiny size, needing a resizing of the screen after each touch, so that the text is of redable size.

Now to figure out a better way. Advices solicited actively pls.

Joshua

 

[jls001]

Any android warriors who use it to control their PC's foobar?

 

[spirovious]

Any android warriors who use it to control their PC's foobar?

May this help you-
Foobar2000 remote control for android | Free software downloads at SourceForge.net
Android Foobar Remote - Hydrogenaudio Forums
NEW Foobar app for Android!