Music PC with RME Hammerfall DSP 9632 sound card

[sonosphere]

I have been trying to get the foobar2000 remotely controlled using my Android phone...

Joshua

Hi,
If all you want is to control foobar 2000 remotely, any particular reason why you don't want to use a wireless keybd/mouse combo for same?

I have used Logitec K260 wireless keybd/mouse combo upto 4 mtrs away from PC for same purpose, without any problems.

Regds,
Sonosphere

 

[jls001]

Hi,
If all you want is to control foobar 2000 remotely, any particular reason why you don't want to use a wireless keybd/mouse combo for same?

I have used Logitec K260 wireless keybd/mouse combo upto 4 mtrs away from PC for same purpose, without any problems.

Regds,
Sonosphere

The PC is placed - on the floor - between the left speaker and the audio rack. So the keyboard and mouse are also at floor level when in use. Not the best of place and hardly ergonomic.

It would be best to put it directly in the rack but there is no empty slot for now. May be I can do this when the Marantz CDP makes way. I don't want to put up a computer table just to keep the PC, keyboard and mouse (though there is a table lying mostly unused), mainly because it will have to eat up the 3 and half feet space I created behind the speaker and screw up the bass response of the room (which was optimised after much experimentation over many days). I want to treat the PC like any other audio equipment as it is not being used for any other purpose. And placing the PC far away will entail a longer run of AES/EBU digital cable which I am using now (2m run).

My wireless keyboard worked for exactly a day and gave up its ghost, so in came a new USB keyboard. The wireless mouse still survives, though.

I am getting used to the quirks of controlling over the Android browser. Tap an icon, re-enlarge, tap another icon, etc:lol: Another - much better - method is to use laptop, but I am often too lazy to switch it on.

 

[jls001]

A visit to Lamington Road last Saturday ended in impulse purchase of a new 75 Ohm coaxial cable from Connectronics. This is Spectra brand, with bright blue sleeve (and therefore very attractive) and thicker than the usual RG-59 cable (doubly attractive:lol. Bought a meter and tried out with two very nice looking RCA connectors from Sunshine (I think a Taiwanese brand). Cable 1 m Rs 140, connector Rs 128 each.

Connected this new "digital" cable to S/PDIF out of my Marantz CDp and fired it up and did a comparo to the AES/EBU output from PC. The PC consistently produced more resolution on the same tracks, with cleaner bass.

Later I compared the S/PDIF outs of PC and CDp and could hear no discernible difference.

Will burn in the new cable and do some more comparisions in future. The idea is to understand how the PC and CDP fare as transports, outputting the same SPDIF output.

One more test pending from my side: compare digital output of sound card to analog output.
The first chain would be something like: PC as transport playing file from external hard disk connected using USB, using the inbuilt DAC and analog stage of the sound card, going into analog in of pre-amp.

Other path is: PC as transport playing file from external hard disk connected using USB, digital output SPDIF or AES/EBU to external DAC and same preamp.

I am not sure if this will be a fair comparison but will try anyway.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

One more test pending from my side: compare digital output of sound card to analog output.

That's the one I'm waiting for

 

[jls001]

That's the one I'm waiting for

@thad
I finally tried the analog output from the RME soundcard last night, but I must say first off that the test was quite inconclusive. The main reason being the huge difference in levels from AES/EBU out compared to analog out. I had to increase the gain by 13-14 dB each time I listened to the analog outputs to get a subjective same SPL level as the digital out. I don't know why there was such a huge disparity in signal levels. It took quite some time to change sources and then increase/decrease levels as appropriate, move back to the listening seat, that I got very distracted from the task at hand.

But, prima facie, the difference between analog and digital was very minor with digital being clearer.

Set up:
1. Analog output of sound card --> analog breakout cable supplied with card --> home made IC (Spectra cables + Sunshine RCAs - both from Taiwan) --> analog input of preamp (cum DAC).

2. Digital out (AES/EBU) of sound card --> home made breakout cable (9-pin D type connector + Belden 110 Ohm Digital cable) --> AES/EBU input of DAC-cum-preamp. This path is longer in the sense there is DAC, which upsamples the incoming digital stream to 32 bit/192 kHz, does some more processing (of which I don't know more than to parrot the manufacturer's claim of using a bespoke Swiss DSP chip that supposedly improves detail retrieval), then finally to the pre-amp.

Better ICs may tell a different story. I have to live with the home made breakout cable as even the one that comes with the sound card (for S/PDIF) is nothing special and looks very cheap.

Will do a more relaxed listening when I can get hold of better ICs.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

When I was using my previous-generation RME card with analogue and digital I/O, I used the digital I/O exclusively from/to digital devices, like mini-disc, which I used a lot at the time. Anyway, "DAC"s had not become the new blue-eyed boy (or box!) on the hifi marketing scene and it never even occurred to me to output anything other than analogue to the analogue input of my amp --- so no similar comparisons from me, and no experience with levels being different. Over the years, I've found the analogue-outs from different devices to vary quite widely anyway. My amplifiers have mostly had ways of adjusting the sources so that switching from one to another with both playing sounds natural, rather than sending one flying for the volume knob.

Is it breakout cable configuration that prevents you from connecting both analogue and digital out and then switching between the two?

At the end of the day, it may well be that you stand-alone DAC is better than that on the card --- or just that you prefer its sound.

At the end of another day , everything can be upgraded or improved, but what you say so far, seems to confirm that the card itself makes a very respectable analogue source, which is what I was expecting and hoping to hear.

 

[jls001]

Need advice on how to reduce the noise from the fan of my music PC. It becomes quite irritating when listening to music having sparse arrangement, and when listening at low volume levels. As I understand it, there is fan for the processor and another one for the SMPS. Do you think I need to takes out fans to get same sized, silent ones? Or are fans of standard size? Is there some dB ratings for how much noise a fan makes? My PC is a normal home PC so not optimised to run silent.

All ideas, pointers, caveats - welcomed.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

This is a good place to start your researches: Silent PC Review

Some more information, or a pointer to it, if already given, would help people to answer this question. What CPU do you have? What is the SMPS? How many, and what, fans are already installed?

What kind of noise do you get from your fans? Vibration? Mechanical noise? Or just the sound of air being moved. If it is the latter, there may not be much you can do about it, although you can experiment with different fans.

My biggest source of noise in the PC I built about 15 months ago was the CPU fan. It was the fan/heatsink supplied with the AMD processor, and it would spin in the thousands of RPM. I replaced it with a big heatsink with big fans. I wrote about that here: Cooling: Hanging a Kilo off your Motherboard?.

The place to start is with cool-running components. If I had been happy to buy a 2.8Ghz processor instead of a 3.2Gh; If I had a slower 1Tb drive (one of the hottest things in the case); then I could certainly have fewer and slower, therefore quieter fans.

To put my PC noise in perspective, it cannot be heard over a ceiling fan on speed two or above; it is drowned out by a split AC machine; it is hugely quieter than the fan on the UPS during power cuts. It is only really wind-movement noise --- but it would be lovely if even that did not exist.

In my dream house... the PC, UPS, etc, is in a "server room" next door to my den, with underfloor cables connecting to the keyboard, monitor, etc on my desk. It wouldn't be completely impossible even here. We have external housing for our gas cylinders; could do something similar at the side of the house for the PC. If physical removal of the noise is an option, it is worth considering. It is highly unlikey that I would do that: houses always have more important demands for spending!

This is one of the most important aspects of audio-pc building. Deserves a thread all of its own!

.

 

[hydra]

This is one of the most important aspects of audio-pc building. Deserves a thread all of its own!

.

No doubt! There is such a thread here: http://www.hifivision.com/home-theater-pc-htpc-media-pc/16382-how-make-silent-pc.html

IMO the best way of building a Silent PC, is to design it as that, right from the ground-up. The Cabinet, SMPS, the motherboard (or Motherboard+CPU combo), the hard disk and the CPU/Cabinet fans play a role.

For a PC that's already built, perhaps swapping out the fans for more silent ones would be the first step.

@jls001, aftermarket fans designed to be silent are not difficult to get now. If your cabinet has the option of a cabinet fan, I'd suggest getting one (though it adds one more fan to the mix). It will keep the internals a bit cooler, and so prevent the CPU fan from kicking in more often. The dB ratings of the fans are mentioned ion most online stores. If not, you will get the details from the manufacturer's websites. You also can get fans with controllers so you can dial in the right amount of cooling to sound ratio. You can also get fan controllers separate from the fan (more common).

You can also look at the BIOS settings of the motherboard: There might be an option to reduce the CPU fan speed and the adjust temps at which it cuts in.

As Thad suggested, the next step would be to swap out your CPU Cooler+Fan combo for a more silent one. In most cases you'll need to know the exact model of your processor (and motherboard) to get an aftermarket cooling fin+fan combo. There are even options where the cooling can be done without a fan.

If your cabinet is ringing and vibrating, you can stick thick felt sheets (without obstructing the cooling) on the cabinet. A much better option would be to get an automotive damping sheet like Dynamat Extreme and paste strips inside the cabinet. These sheets are designed to be used in hot environments, so they will be ideal for the inside of a cabinet. If you check with the better car audio shops in your locality, you might get a small bit cut off a bigger sheet for cheap. They will damp all cabinet vibrations.

About the SMPS, I don't think there is a way of silencing the fan or replacing it. If it gets bad, you might have to get a new one. The newer 80plus rated ones will also save you a bit of electricity. The dB ratings of these are available in online stores and on the manufacturer's websites. The more expensive one can also run fanless, or with minimal fan intrusion. Seasonic has a few such models (so do others, but I hear about Seasonic ones a lot).

You can do some window shopping for the fans here: Theitdepot - Cooling Devices

Other (expensive) options that will lay the current setup waste would be getting a motherboard like the Asus E350-M1-M with fanless cooling, and a 5400rpm (or 5900rpm in the case of Seagate) hard disk.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

I have been looking at Silent PC Review site for some time, but, somehow, I completely missed their review of the PSU that I bought. I chose the Antec combination of the P183 case with the CP-850 PSU. This is a non-standard size and shape, and only fits, as yet, a small handful of Antec's own cases. Although it seemed like an expensive combination at the time, I see from the review that the PSU is actually very good value for money. I don't think I ever read such a glowing review of any product after having bought it!

Silent PC Review: Antec CP-850 Review

Why would I need a 850W PSU, when my machine mostly runs at about 140W? Same reason as driving a Merc on city roads at 30kph... silent and smooth. The PSU is a source of noise in many machines: mine is silent.

If your cabinet has the option of a cabinet fan, I'd suggest getting one (though it adds one more fan to the mix). It will keep the internals a bit cooler

I agree that more slower fans can be quieter than fewer fast ones. It is certainly so in my 5-fan PC!

You can also look at the BIOS settings of the motherboard: There might be an option to reduce the CPU fan speed and the adjust temps at which it cuts in.

Your fans should certainly be under BIOS control. A constantly full-speed fan would be like living with a helicopter. Motherboards may have many "headers" for fan connection: only some of them may be controllable. For the others, you can use various devices to control or lower the speed yourself. It's a matter of experiment, trial and error --- but I'd strongly advise against taking any liberties with the CPU cooler, as mistakes could be expensive.

It's probably obvious, but, if uncertain where the noise is coming from, momentarily stop each fan by applying finger pressure to the hub centre.

Disclaimer: don't blame me for any loss of fingers or fried components whe experimenting with fans!


PS... make sure the heat-sink fins are not clogged with dust, which would give the fan a lot more work to do.