My intro and request for guidance and advice

[oldmonk]

I am not at all an expert, and was genuinely curious about what you had to say because tried replacing the unregulated linear supply that came with my DIY class D amp, with an 800 watt SMPS supply (regulated). Sound was much worse than the original - less details, much less dynamics. I wasn't sure whether it was a bad power supply (it had great reviews), or because it was an SMPS. I spoke to the amp kit designer about this and he said they always suggest unregulated linear power supplies. A lot of audio forums seem to think that unregulated ones sound better than most regulated ones unless designed extremely well.

I dug out an article for you and those interested to read.

I don't have specific answers to your questions but this may shed some light on what a company like Naim thinks.

 

[firearm12]

Afaik power supplies especially in amps are highly dependent on the hardware they cater to. No universal power supply is there which will work wonders for all equipment. They need to be tailored to the use. If same was not true there would have been one ultimate universal power supply design but there is no such thing.

For anyone who wants to build naim power supply clones

Modifying and building audio power supplies

..the what, why and even some of the how to setup your room for listening

www.acoustica.org.uk

 

[oldmonk]

Afaik power supplies especially in amps are highly dependent on the hardware they cater to. No universal power supply is there which will work wonders for all equipment. They need to be tailored to the use. If same was not true there would have been one ultimate universal power supply design but there is no such thing.

True that.

But if in any way your inference is the the whitepaper on Naim Power supplies - i guess there is always much to be learnt by looking at the building blocks...

Ultimately you can build your own Lego ( like the diy PS link posted ) but the general principles of a good PS design should be in the same ball park IMO.

 

[firearm12]

True that.

But if in any way your inference is the the whitepaper on Naim Power supplies - i guess there is always much to be learnt by looking at the building blocks...

Ultimately you can build your own Lego ( like the diy PS link posted ) but the general principles of a good PS design should be in the same ball park IMO.

No that was not my inference ofcourse threre is always things to learn. Btw i am a huge fan of naim equipment and its philosophies.

 

[oldmonk]

fan of naim equipment

i dont see many on this forum.

 

[firearm12]

i dont see many on this forum.

Audiophiles rarely are. But if someone wants to hear music, naim all the way.

 

[oldmonk]

But if someone wants to hear music, naim all the way.

Do you use Naim in your setup ?

there is a contrarian opinion too - Naim and Linn dont do soundstage as well.

Other brands can make out what if the violinist in the 3rd row from the back on the right side is gently rubbing his trouser against the seating stool - hoping to drive the any away !

Naim is only known for their so called PRAT and making money from Power supplies sales . They cannot convey emotion and soul.

I guess this is going beyond what the OP's thread intended so maybe after 1 reply from you lets let it rest here.

 

[firearm12]

Do you use Naim in your setup ?

there is a contrarian opinion too - Naim and Linn dont do soundstage as well.

Other brands can make out what if the violinist in the 3rd row from the back on the right side is gently rubbing his trouser against the seating stool - hoping to drive the any away !

Naim is only known for their so called PRAT and making money from Power supplies sales . They cannot convey emotion and soul.

I guess this is going beyond what the OP's thread intended so maybe after 1 reply from you lets let it rest here.

There are alots of treads praising naim here i think. I have used a naim amp for 3 yrs. I can see why it doesnt appeal to audiophiles, it doesnt have big bass, it doesnt have flat response. Mids are accentuated. It dont have any soundstage, phew. Harsh in treble, little bright if you can want to call it so. List goes on for what it doesnt do. Maybe these things are inportant to many people and it can be understood well why these are important.

The area where it shines is PRAT stuff, whatever i dont know i dont know or what it is but when it used to play you will forget all that i listed above. It knows how to convey emotion and soul, knows where the essence of music lies, and when mated with right speaker it will give oodles of musicality. It has a distinct sound that no other amp has. Maybe because of PRAT, but music in itself is PRAT only, notes played at a particular tempo and there it excels, it wont miss a beat. One more area i found it to be good is music seemed live and dynamic as it should be, nothing warm like what a live event is. Play comfortably numb and it always had me on goosebumps. You dont need audiophile songs to play on it, maybe its not even made for audiophiles. It just hits it right so one dont have to worry about audiiphile things.

 

[syednizamudeen]

There is no set rule
Still I feel spikes will have it's own set of improvement whatever the floor.
But then upon the listener if he likes the final sound or not

Spikes and rubber feet alter the height of the tweeters. If the speakers are set on the hard floor, rubber feet would make the speakers more stable. But, on carpets, the spikes make it stable.

Spikes and rubber feets might alter the tweeter position. But, I don't think the difference would be groundbreaking in any manner.

Some speakers sound harsh when is pointed straight to the ears. That speakers can be toed out. But, speakers like yours should have a wide dispersion and it shouldn't be that fussy when it comes to placement.

May be the amplifier and speaker doesn't gel well??

Hello everyone,
Hope you are all keeping healthy and happy.
I thought I should share an update, as this thread is three pages and you have generously shared your time and suggestions.

To make a long story short:
i sold the Primare and Tritons and am now using a Hegel H300 and a pair of Adam Audio Pencil mk3.
i have my music on a HDD playing through Swara DAC (Acoustic Portrait) using Runeaudio.
The cable upgrades, positioning, spikes, power and other very practical suggestions I got from you all have helped. Thank you again.

I now have the best sound I ever had (in my home). Long enjoyable listening sessions, No listening fatigue and a great feeling getting reacquainted with my music collection. Some very poorly recorded or very compressed music does sound bad (as it should?) But overall, I am very happy.

looking back, I this is what I think I learned:
Amp and speaker matching is a matter of luck, though some knowledge of technicalities involved can help shortlist better- (Sensitivity, output Power, impedance matching etc)
I learnt Auditioning and listening for myself in my listening space, (alone) is the best way to decide (though this is rarely practical, unfortunately).
i learnt if I am careful but take calculated risks, it’s possible to get fantastic value from preowned audio components. There are far more honest people than dishonest ones around.
I learnt I love the ease and convenience of browsing through my music collection and playback using my iPad or phone.
I learnt short signal paths are simpler and good.
I learnt Raspberry Pi based music playback can be with very good audio quality. I am glad I took a leap of faith even though I am not a computer or electronics expert.
I am grateful for the music, everyday.

Thank you for reading and your patience.

Very well put...

 

[jls001]

I am not at all an expert, and was genuinely curious about what you had to say because tried replacing the unregulated linear supply that came with my DIY class D amp, with an 800 watt SMPS supply (regulated). Sound was much worse than the original - less details, much less dynamics. I wasn't sure whether it was a bad power supply (it had great reviews), or because it was an SMPS. I spoke to the amp kit designer about this and he said they always suggest unregulated linear power supplies. A lot of audio forums seem to think that unregulated ones sound better than most regulated ones unless designed extremely well.

Most non class D power amplifiers use non regulated power supply because the extra cost, heat and complexity is difficult to justify. However, almost every line level gear (preamps, phono preamps, DACs, etc) that run at low current (say, ~100-200 mA or lower) are regulated. This could be by 3-pin regulator chips or opamps or fully discrete components. There is even a class of regulators called "superregs" that regulate better.

SMPSes are regulated by design (even for high current, high wattage applications) but a more steady output voltage doesn't seem to necessarily guarantee better sonics.

 

[Analogous]

Most non class D power amplifiers use non regulated power supply because the extra cost, heat and complexity is difficult to justify. However, almost every line level gear (preamps, phono preamps, DACs, etc) that run at low current (say, ~100-200 mA or lower) are regulated. This could be by 3-pin regulator chips or opamps or fully discrete components. There is even a class of regulators called "superregs" that regulate better.

SMPSes are regulated by design (even for high current, high wattage applications) but a more steady output voltage doesn't seem to necessarily guarantee better sonics.

This is getting curiouser and curiouser . I have basic higher secondary school level knowledge of physics and electricity and I am so confused about the relationship between “clean power“ and quality of audio reproduction.

i dont see many on this forum.

I have a Naim 5i and I spend equal amount of time with it as with my other system. Don’t know what it is, but I love the sound.

 

[oldmonk]

I have a Naim 5i and I spend equal amount of time with it as with my other system. Don’t know what it is, but I love the sound.

Which speakers have you paired it with ?

“clean power“

Is like clean food and water for good health and good outcomes.

It's universal.

The focus on robust power supplies in a source or dac or amplification will produce better results.

 

[firearm12]

This is getting curiouser and curiouser . I have basic higher secondary school level knowledge of physics and electricity and I am so confused about the relationship between “clean power“ and quality of audio reproduction.

Think like this. Your equipment only does one job, converts electricity into sound signals. So the value of good electricity can be guessed by anyone.

 

[Bloom@83]

Sorry to butt in the conversation, been following this thread since yesterday - very interesting so far.

With so much discussion around LPS, amps and speaker matching , room acoustics and other head-scratching stuff , I’m curious if the OP has thought about trying an analog source instead of digital, just to explore the path ?

 

[Analogous]

Sorry to butt in the conversation, been following this thread since yesterday - very interesting so far.

With so much discussion around LPS, amps and speaker matching , room acoustics and other head-scratching stuff , I’m curious if the OP has thought about trying an analog source instead of digital, just to explore the path ?

I did consider very briefly, adding a turntable, but dropped the idea as I thought it too fiddly and because I have a sizeable collection ofCDs and digital music on a HDD. I also am not keen on investing on building a vinyl collection.
I like the convenience of using an app to browse and playback music.

 

[Bloom@83]

Fair enough. Although I’d say the inconvenience forces me to actually listen to my music ,shutting down all distractions. Also , without meaning to start any of those endless debates , if one is inclined to jazz , blues , classic rock (pre eighties ) , vinyls (the good pressings) sound superior to CDs. (I don’t have SACDs- so can’t comment on those ).

 

[Analogous]

Fair enough. Although I’d say the inconvenience forces me to actually listen to my music ,shutting down all distractions. Also , without meaning to start any of those endless debates , if one is inclined to jazz , blues , classic rock (pre eighties ) , vinyls (the good pressings) sound superior to CDs. (I don’t have SACDs- so can’t comment on those ).

I just now realised have never heard vinyl and digital versions of the same albums played on a system at one listening session to compare. But my childhood was full of vinyl music and I have some great memories from that time.