My new HT setup with Rs.2.5 Lakhs

[periyar]

Guys - just to put things in perspective - 6-7 years ago I had a state of the art (for that time) HT setup in my basement in Detroit (was living in the US). Preamp was a B&K ref50 ($3000) power amp was a Parasound HCA 1205 A ($2000) and a HCA 1000A ($700) - speakers were B&W DM series ($4000 for &7.1, projector was a panasonic Ptae100 ($1700)and screen was a dalite permwall HCCV ($600). Along with other ancillary equipment and a dedicated 20'x 14'x 8' room I spent cose to $20,000. Ok it sounded great. Then when I was moving back to India 2 years ago, I first sold the pre and power amps and temporarily replaced with a used Pioneer Elite 52vsx receiver that cost me $1000 as I did not want to bring the power amps back with me to India(voltage issues etc). Guess what the $1000 rcvr sounded at-least as good as the $5700 pre-power for movies. I mean I did not feel like I was missing anything, ok maybe the explosions were not as dynamic, but you know what they were pretty darn good. Where the rcvr. lost out was in music and that too was because of the amp section. Since then I realized that unless you have a huge space read 30 feet by 20 feet by 8 feet or something in that range, and super high end speakers and a huge budget read $50,000 - most of the $1000 recievers will be good enough for majority of the home theaters. That being said if one can afford separates then they should go ahead but beware of the law of diminishing returns. Anyways this my opinion only - so now I will spend big bucks for a music only system but am happy with a reciever based system for movie watching.
Cheers
Sid - sorry for the long winded post:sad:

Are you recommending my plan to go for AVR + Power Amp (Stereo initially) for my living room (16ft x 13ft x 9.5ft) setup?

 

[periyar]

seems like u wud be going the AVR /power amp route
for FLRS
apart from ushers , which u have already heard and liked ,i wud suggest u cud also chk out

-PSB synchrony 2
-morduant short-mezzo 8 ( audio planet ,koramangala)
-jamo C809 (cinebells , millers road)
-polk audio ,some Ls series(cant remember the exact model) , this speaker sounded very good , had heard it in profx ,mg road ,it was kept at the ground floor
-also chk with sreedhar for the emerald physics (cud be slightly costlier)

these range from 1 to 1.5 Lakhs , but all of these are huge ,placement in living room cud be a concern

lets not confuse periyar further , give him some more good options for FLRS and AVRs :lol:

Subhash -

Thanks for your kind words

Is it Polk LSi 15 you are referring to? It was kept at the groung floor and I did hear it but driven by AVR without Power Amp. So the punch was missing as compared to my audition at ARN.

Where can I audition PSB synchrony 2 towers? I've just checked their website. man.. it looks sexy

I will try to audition (only at weekends I can find time. So its going to take time to decide) these speakers and find my likings.

Regards,

 

[periyar]

I have never said no to a good AVR !! I have also maintained that using AVR for music and a stereo amp for movie is a compromise either way. But yes, given budget and other constraints, many people choose one or the other.

Given the fact that you are going to use the living room for music/HT tasks, you will have a certain amount of human traffic as well collateral noise. You have to live with this.

I would suggest a two pronged process. Don't spend all of your 2.5 for now, and go in for a HT system based on a reasonable AVR such as a Denon or a Marantz. I would not go in for a Yamaha or an Onkyo as you may find (at least the lower versions) a bit harsh.

Sometime down the line get a CD Player and a good two channel amplifier to be used separately for music. If you buy a good pair of speakers now, you can use a simple switch later on to use the same speakers for both Ht and for music.

Cheers

Thanks Venkat.

So, you suggest me to have two phase setup for movie & music. That's a good idea. But what if I buy the Power Amp requirement(second phase) in the first phase itself. I know that it may not fit my budget. But, I would like to know how much I need to stretch my budget to accomodate a good Power Amp in my first phase setup. The reason (from my limited knowledge and what I gathered from all your inputs/suggestions) is, I feel that it might be required to choose the right (good and matching) floorstanders as it will be used for (stereo)music in the second phase. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I would like to know your suggestion on some AVR models, speakers (especially floorstanders & subs) along with Power Amps. Thanks in advance.

Also, I'm curious to know about the Onkyo (Is it Onkyo or some other model?) 875 which you compared with Pre/Processor + Amp combo and praised its abilities. Or is there any other better models would you suggest for decent AVR which might be par with Pre/processor + Power Amp combo? I have noted a couple of AVR models (Denon) with integrated Amp but very expensive and will not fit my budget.

Regards,

 

[subhash]

Thanks Venkat.

So, you suggest me to have two phase setup for movie & music. That's a good idea. But what if I buy the Power Amp requirement(second phase) in the first phase itself. I know that it may not fit my budget. But, I would like to know how much I need to stretch my budget to accomodate a good Power Amp in my first phase setup. The reason (from my limited knowledge and what I gathered from all your inputs/suggestions) is, I feel that it might be required to choose the right (good and matching) floorstanders as it will be used for (stereo)music in the second phase. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I would like to know your suggestion on some AVR models, speakers (especially floorstanders & subs) along with Power Amps. Thanks in advance.

Also, I'm curious to know about the Onkyo (Is it Onkyo or some other model?) 875 which you compared with Pre/Processor + Amp combo and praised its abilities. Or is there any other better models would you suggest for decent AVR which might be par with Pre/processor + Power Amp combo? I have noted a couple of AVR models (Denon) with integrated Amp but very expensive and will not fit my budget.

Regards,

for power amps look in used , u cud get a very good one for 20-30k

regarding AVR with preouts ,i think the onkyo models have preouts only from 7 sereies 0nwards

 

[sidvee]

Are you recommending my plan to go for AVR + Power Amp (Stereo initially) for my living room (16ft x 13ft x 9.5ft) setup?

Periyar - absolutely and unequivocally. In fact you can get a receiver first and then add a 2 channel amp later as you expand your music system - and maybe a 5 channel amp further down for 7.1. Just make sure the rcvr has pre outs for all channels and also make sure you are planning to use a powered subwoofer as bass frequencies use up a lot of power. I can unabashedly recommend the denon avr2310 (of-course i am very familiar with it as I own onehyeah. It does not sound bad for music (in comparision to my pre and power music system which costs at-least 6-7 times more!) - of-course you have to engage the pure direct mode. Rest assured that it will be great for movies. Finally i always recommend that please use your own ears before spending any hard earned money!
cheers
Sid

 

[cmsajith]

for power amps look in used , u cud get a very good one for 20-30k

regarding AVR with preouts ,i think the onkyo models have preouts only from 7 sereies 0nwards

If you are ok w/ second hand power amp, there is one power amp w/ my friend (AUDCOM A200). I am not sure about the musicality or anything. The product is in trivandrum. It weighs >30kg. check out the remote!!!

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/6763/p1010003ea.jpg
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/3182/p1010009ya.jpg
http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/8721/p1010012m.jpg

 

[periyar]

Periyar - absolutely and unequivocally. In fact you can get a receiver first and then add a 2 channel amp later as you expand your music system - and maybe a 5 channel amp further down for 7.1. Just make sure the rcvr has pre outs for all channels and also make sure you are planning to use a powered subwoofer as bass frequencies use up a lot of power. I can unabashedly recommend the denon avr2310 (of-course i am very familiar with it as I own onehyeah. It does not sound bad for music (in comparision to my pre and power music system which costs at-least 6-7 times more!) - of-course you have to engage the pure direct mode. Rest assured that it will be great for movies. Finally i always recommend that please use your own ears before spending any hard earned money!
cheers
Sid

Thanks Sid.

Certainly 2310 is in my radar as I mentioned it in my earlier post and also confirmed from the manual I downloaded from ProFX site that it has got necessary pre-outs. I've decided to go for powered sub even before I thought about full HT setup. So that's confirmed.

Finally i always recommend that please use your own ears before spending any hard earned money!

That's the very reason I would like to take enough time to check out (audition) as much as possible before decide. Thanks.

Regards,

 

[periyar]

If you are ok w/ second hand power amp, there is one power amp w/ my friend (AUDCOM A200). I am not sure about the musicality or anything. The product is in trivandrum. It weighs >30kg. check out the remote!!!

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/6763/p1010003ea.jpg
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/3182/p1010009ya.jpg
http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/8721/p1010012m.jpg

Thanks cmsajith. It looks like a monster > 30 kg Could you please provide any links (reviews) for this Amp?

Fellow members - Any suggestion/comment on this Amp?

 

[venkatcr]

So, you suggest me to have two phase setup for movie & music. That's a good idea. But what if I buy the Power Amp requirement(second phase) in the first phase itself. I know that it may not fit my budget. But, I would like to know how much I need to stretch my budget to accomodate a good Power Amp in my first phase setup. The reason (from my limited knowledge and what I gathered from all your inputs/suggestions) is, I feel that it might be required to choose the right (good and matching) floorstanders as it will be used for (stereo)music in the second phase. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I would like to know your suggestion on some AVR models, speakers (especially floorstanders & subs) along with Power Amps. Thanks in advance.

Also, I'm curious to know about the Onkyo (Is it Onkyo or some other model?) 875 which you compared with Pre/Processor + Amp combo and praised its abilities. Or is there any other better models would you suggest for decent AVR which might be par with Pre/processor + Power Amp combo? I have noted a couple of AVR models (Denon) with integrated Amp but very expensive and will not fit my budget.

Periyar, I think you are getting confused with terminologies. I am not suggesting a power amplifier at all. Frankly, I do not see the need for one given your room size. Though, I am sure, others may disagree.

What I am suggesting is an AVR (Integrated) and a stereo integrated amplifier (again integrated) as two separate items. There is no independent pre/pro or power amp in my suggestion.

The AVR will work for now to satisfy you movies fully and music to some extent. At a later stage you can go in for an integrated stereo amp that is connected directly to your CD Player. The only thing you have to switch are the front speakers.

In terms of AVRs, the models I am familiar with and like are Yamaha 663, Yamaha 863, and the Denon 2310. I have not heard or auditioned the new Onkyo models, the new Yamaha models, nor the Marantz models. Given your room size, an AVR that pumps out some 100 odd watts per channel married to good speakers are enough. Something like the Denon 2310 should cost you around 60K.

If you search through HFV, you will see a number of threads where others and I have discussed threadbare a number of options for stereo integrated amplifiers (NAD, CA, Rotel, etc, etc) as well as speakers (PSB, Dynaudio, Acoustic Energy, Mordaunt Short, etc, etc.,) Speakers are very personal choice and you must audition them before buying. This is even more important as you already have some idea of what you are looking for.

Yes, I am using the Onkyo 875. And, I compared it to a integrated stereo amp fro Marantz and a stereo integrated tube amp from Cayin. Not to any pre/pro.

Cheers

 

[sidvee]

One more thing Periyar - unfortunately the most ignored as well:sad: - is room acoustics and their treatment. The best high end set up will sound at best mediocre in an unsuitable room.
The best will be to go for acoustic panels - Anutone has some good ones - or if WAF is a problem - then at-least heavy drapes, carpets & rugs, and stuffed furniture is required - of course these will take care of frequencies upto 300-400 hz or so. Below that bass traps are a must if one has to have the impact of bass frequencies.
You should also research into this and earmark a portion of your budget to this.
Cheers
Sid

 

[santhosh]

Interesting discussion, learning lots and this will influence my decision-making when I upgrade my 5.1 AVR sometime in the next 4 to 6 months.

The discussion about using a dedicated AV pre-proc or use an AVR as a pre is very interesting and informative. We have Subhash on one side who is already using a Onkyo 8xx as a 7.1 pre but wants a dedicated pre. On the other hand, we have the majority saying that AVR itself is more than sufficient as a pre as it is also VFM. One thing is clear, we audio-lovers want the best system for Audio, but for video, we are happy to compromise.

I don't want to hijack periyar's thread. But, I need your suggestions on the same topic....

Ok, I am in the process of acquiring a 100W x 5 channel power amp sometime soon. I already have two power amps(pls see my signature for modesl). I intend to use the 535 along with the yet to be purchased 5-channel amp to make a 7.1 setup after clubbing with a good sub. The Adcom 555 Mk-II will continue to be used purely for stereo. So, I will need an AV pre and have thought of the below-mentioned options:

a) Emotiva(~700$) after its post-launch reviews as Marantz is too expensive
b) Any 7.1 AVR to be used as a pre

Venkat has mentioned that the Denon 2310 should cost around 60k. Is there any other good AVR lesser than INR 50k that can be used as a 7.1 AV pre.

My requirements are as below:
1) Should have atleast two HDMI inputs and two HDMI outputs(one is enough, two is preferred)
2) AVR should not spend money on a great Video upscaler as I have a 1080p projector and intend to play only 1080p source or 720p.
3) Should not have HDMI Video passthrough handshake issues
4) AVR should not spend money on output wattage. Even 60W RMS will do as I will be running seperates

This time frame is 4 to 6 months as this gives me enough time to manage the finances and also the reviews of the Emotiva 7.1 pre will be out soon. If the Emotiva's reviews are great for its audio capabilities but not that great for video, I will still go for abovementioned reasons as it is VFM.

 

[subhash]

Interesting discussion, learning lots and this will influence my decision-making when I upgrade my 5.1 AVR sometime in the next 4 to 6 months.

The discussion about using a dedicated AV pre-proc or use an AVR as a pre is very interesting and informative. We have Subhash on one side who is already using a Onkyo 8xx as a 7.1 pre but wants a dedicated pre. On the other hand, we have the majority saying that AVR itself is more than sufficient as a pre as it is also VFM. One thing is clear, we audio-lovers want the best system for Audio, but for video, we are happy to compromise.

I don't want to hijack periyar's thread. But, I need your suggestions on the same topic....

Ok, I am in the process of acquiring a 100W x 5 channel power amp sometime soon. I already have two power amps(pls see my signature for modesl). I intend to use the 535 along with the yet to be purchased 5-channel amp to make a 7.1 setup after clubbing with a good sub. The Adcom 555 Mk-II will continue to be used purely for stereo. So, I will need an AV pre and have thought of the below-mentioned options:

a) Emotiva(~700$) after its post-launch reviews as Marantz is too expensive
b) Any 7.1 AVR to be used as a pre

Venkat has mentioned that the Denon 2310 should cost around 60k. Is there any other good AVR lesser than INR 50k that can be used as a 7.1 AV pre.

My requirements are as below:
1) Should have atleast two HDMI inputs and two HDMI outputs(one is enough, two is preferred)
2) AVR should not spend money on a great Video upscaler as I have a 1080p projector and intend to play only 1080p source or 720p.
3) Should not have HDMI Video passthrough handshake issues
4) AVR should not spend money on output wattage. Even 60W RMS will do as I will be running seperates

This time frame is 4 to 6 months as this gives me enough time to manage the finances and also the reviews of the Emotiva 7.1 pre will be out soon. If the Emotiva's reviews are great for its audio capabilities but not that great for video, I will still go for abovementioned reasons as it is VFM.

hi ,santosh u cud take my 875:yahoo: ,definetly after`the firmware upgrade
this wud help me get the marantz:yahoo:

lets wait for the emotiva results

 

[santhosh]

lets wait for the emotiva results

Yup, won't buy anything until the reviews are out.

If you are ok w/ second hand power amp

Definitely a powerful amp, but doubt if it is a power amp. Looks like an integrated amp to me. Check out the heat sinks on that monster:licklips:

Thanks cmsajith. It looks like a monster > 30 kg Could you please provide any links (reviews) for this Amp?

Fellow members - Any suggestion/comment on this Amp?

Yes cmsajith, please post links for reviews and info about this amp. Could not find any.

 

[subhash]

Periyar, I think you are getting confused with terminologies. I am not suggesting a power amplifier at all. Frankly, I do not see the need for one given your room size. Though, I am sure, others may disagree.

What I am suggesting is an AVR (Integrated) and a stereo integrated amplifier (again integrated) as two separate items. There is no independent pre/pro or power amp in my suggestion.

The AVR will work for now to satisfy you movies fully and music to some extent. At a later stage you can go in for an integrated stereo amp that is connected directly to your CD Player. The only thing you have to switch are the front speakers.

In terms of AVRs, the models I am familiar with and like are Yamaha 663, Yamaha 863, and the Denon 2310. I have not heard or auditioned the new Onkyo models, the new Yamaha models, nor the Marantz models. Given your room size, an AVR that pumps out some 100 odd watts per channel married to good speakers are enough. Something like the Denon 2310 should cost you around 60K.

If you search through HFV, you will see a number of threads where others and I have discussed threadbare a number of options for stereo integrated amplifiers (NAD, CA, Rotel, etc, etc) as well as speakers (PSB, Dynaudio, Acoustic Energy, Mordaunt Short, etc, etc.,) Speakers are very personal choice and you must audition them before buying. This is even more important as you already have some idea of what you are looking for.

Yes, I am using the Onkyo 875. And, I compared it to a integrated stereo amp fro Marantz and a stereo integrated tube amp from Cayin. Not to any pre/pro.

Cheers

vekat i wudnt agree with you ---for movies you need raw power
the power reserves of most avr (including so called highend) sucks

 

[subhash]

wonder why no one is advising on a HTIB:clapping: and say that there is no audible difference from avr/ pre- pro/ avr+power amps

 

[subhash]

If you are ok w/ second hand power amp, there is one power amp w/ my friend (AUDCOM A200). I am not sure about the musicality or anything. The product is in trivandrum. It weighs >30kg. check out the remote!!!

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/6763/p1010003ea.jpg
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/3182/p1010009ya.jpg
http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/8721/p1010012m.jpg

the power amp looks massive

is it adcom or audcom

any comments on performance / links

seems to be of chinese origin

 

[cmsajith]

Yup, won't buy anything until the reviews are out.


Definitely a powerful amp, but doubt if it is a power amp. Looks like an integrated amp to me. Check out the heat sinks on that monster:licklips:



Yes cmsajith, please post links for reviews and info about this amp. Could not find any.

I am also not able to find much. When i checked another A-160, it seems to be a hybrid amp with Valve pre and SS poweramp. It has only one control, volume (even the same w/ remote). I believe its a 400 + 400w amp (not sure about 400w altogether or 400w each) and he may be willing to sell it for 25K (need to check the availability, he told me 2/3 weeks back)

 

[cmsajith]

the power amp looks massive

is it adcom or audcom

any comments on performance / links

seems to be of chinese origin

Yes, its chinese.
Audcom

 

[periyar]

Periyar, I think you are getting confused with terminologies. I am not suggesting a power amplifier at all. Frankly, I do not see the need for one given your room size. Though, I am sure, others may disagree.

What I am suggesting is an AVR (Integrated) and a stereo integrated amplifier (again integrated) as two separate items. There is no independent pre/pro or power amp in my suggestion.

The AVR will work for now to satisfy you movies fully and music to some extent. At a later stage you can go in for an integrated stereo amp that is connected directly to your CD Player. The only thing you have to switch are the front speakers.

In terms of AVRs, the models I am familiar with and like are Yamaha 663, Yamaha 863, and the Denon 2310. I have not heard or auditioned the new Onkyo models, the new Yamaha models, nor the Marantz models. Given your room size, an AVR that pumps out some 100 odd watts per channel married to good speakers are enough. Something like the Denon 2310 should cost you around 60K.

If you search through HFV, you will see a number of threads where others and I have discussed threadbare a number of options for stereo integrated amplifiers (NAD, CA, Rotel, etc, etc) as well as speakers (PSB, Dynaudio, Acoustic Energy, Mordaunt Short, etc, etc.,) Speakers are very personal choice and you must audition them before buying. This is even more important as you already have some idea of what you are looking for.

Yes, I am using the Onkyo 875. And, I compared it to a integrated stereo amp fro Marantz and a stereo integrated tube amp from Cayin. Not to any pre/pro.

Cheers

Thanks Venkat for explaning in detail. You meant to say that I should have two different setup for movie (AVR) and music (Integrete Stereo Amplifier) separately and don't mix it each other. Is that right?

It seems that Subhash (even I found the difference in audio quality especially the punch, from my audition at ProFX [KEF, Polk speakers without Stereo Amp] and ARN [Usher:licklips: with Stereo Amp]) claims the need of raw power even for the AVRs. In that case, if required, will I be able to use the pre-out of the AVR to connect to my integrated stereo amplifier later? Sorry for my ignorance and repeated questions as I couldn't understand this part.

Also, I would like to ask you all that, are we clear of not going for any Pre/processor in my setup? So that we don't have to discuss it further and we can focus/narrow down to only the required components (AVR, Stereo Amp - still under discussion, Speakers).

Thanks and Regards,

 

[periyar]

vekat i wudnt agree with you ---for movies you need raw power
the power reserves of most avr (including so called highend) sucks

I have one quick question here that if I use a Power Amplifier (initially stereo) with an AVR, then will I have more choice of Floorstanders (front) speakers? Means should I need to go only for Ushers (Dancer Mini-1,2) or any other good speakers will give good bass/punch with a AVR + Power amp. Of course, I understand that there will be some compromise on the quality comparing with Ushers. Please advise.

Please note that the reason I am comparing with Usher is, I have only heard Ushers with a Power Amp (Stereo music) and my audition just started last week-end. I have only weekends to go for any audition even sometimes I might have to go to work on Saturday . I am yet to hear other/suggested speakers with Power Amp.

Regards,