MY NOS Long Base Thorens 125 and SME 3012

[gopib]

Check whether the motor spindle moves without power by gently turning the spindle. This is of course possible only if the seller lets you do it and it is accessible. If it rotates freely then probably the motor is mechanically alright. Next with power, check whether it is rigid or with a gentle force moves. If it is erratic, the in all probability there is an internal electrical problem with the motor, if it does not move with jerks but continues vibrating then it is probably an external electrical/electronic or whatever issue.

All this is pure conjecture based on my experience with precision motors of various kinds. Replacement motors should be of the same kind as the original and as Reuben posted, anything other than OEM would be taking a big risk. Therefore factor in all the likely expenses before getting into restore mode.

 

[shafic]

Sincere thanks to Mr Reubensm and Mr gopib for their practical and valuable advice. I will take all these points in to consideration before making a decision. I have asked for time up till this weekend,and will give it one more inspection. I appreciate all the knowledge sharing and help of the FM members.

 

[kuruvilajacob]

Shafic,
I know another chap who is an authority on Thorens 125. That Thorens will work provided many components will have to be replaced. Even my TD 125 had similar complaint but he rectified it . This is not the regular service guy I was mentioning on another thread. Yes the paint is not original

 

[kuruvilajacob]

I have fitted the Thorens 125 Long Base in the new Oak plinth. Will be fitting the new SME 3012 arm tomorrow. I thought I should post a pic of the player without the arm today and after the arm is fitted tomorrow hopefully. I will also post a pic of my other Thorens 125 (short Base) Jelco 9" tonearm in teak plinth.

 

[vmark73]

outstanding! recommend installing a new power cord, if you havent already done so. let me know if you want to get phono cables from hk?
deepak

 

[kuruvilajacob]

outstanding! recommend installing a new power cord, if you havent already done so. let me know if you want to get phono cables from hk?
deepak

Hi Deepak,
The original phono cables look good. I will use them for sometime and think of changing them at a later date. Welcome to the Forum. will catch up with you.
Regards

 

[kuruvilajacob]

I have completed the installation of arm and other adjustments. For the time being, I have put a Shure 44-7 cart but I am aiming at a good cart in the near future for it. It sounds amazing. My brother says it betters my Garrards but I have no time today to make a comparison. I will do that later and give a detailed review. Meanwhile few pics of of my new family member!

 

[Saket]

Pardon my ignorance, but the tone-arm looks longer than the previous pictures?

 

[arj]

I have completed the installation of arm and other adjustments. For the time being, I have put a Shure 44-7 cart but I am aiming at a good cart in the near future for it. It sounds amazing. My brother says it betters my Garrards but I have no time today to make a comparison. I will do that later and give a detailed review. Meanwhile few pics of of my new family member!

fantastic this is inspirational !
heres a pic of a TD150 i found at the thomas schick site. i believe this is extensively Modded

 

[kuruvilajacob]

Pardon my ignorance, but the tone-arm looks longer than the previous pictures?

It looks longer from the angle the pic was taken.

 

[kuruvilajacob]

Last night, my brother and myself listened to both the Garrard 301 with SME 3012 arm and 2 M Red cart and Thorens 125 with SME 3012 arm with Shure 97 XE. While the Thorens was warmer and smoother to listen to, the 'throw' generated by Garrard 301 is certainly noteworthy.The Garrad is an all rounder while Thorens 125 is good for softer music of singers like Jim Reeves. I would like to compare the with JP which should sound sharper and leaner than the other two. I am wondering how these decks will stand against the new Super Decks of Clear Audio, Avid etc. Since the prices of these are way beyond my reach, I have no way to compare

 

[anilva]

Last night, my brother and myself listened to both the Garrard 301 with SME 3012 arm and 2 M Red cart and Thorens 125 with SME 3012 arm with Shure 97 XE. While the Thorens was warmer and smoother to listen to, the 'throw' generated by Garrard 301 is certainly noteworthy.The Garrad is an all rounder while Thorens 125 is good for softer music of singers like Jim Reeves. I would like to compare the with JP which should sound sharper and leaner than the other two. I am wondering how these decks will stand against the new Super Decks of Clear Audio, Avid etc. Since the prices of these are way beyond my reach, I have no way to compare

Kuruvila,

You may not be right in the comparisons. Ideally the comparison of the TT should be with the same cartridge and tonearm combination. I can see the difference between a 2M and 97Xe playing up here for your 'throw' experience. Clearly 97xe is a more softer cartridge than a 2M.

 

[kuruvilajacob]

Kuruvila,

You may not be right in the comparisons. Ideally the comparison of the TT should be with the same cartridge and tonearm combination. I can see the difference between a 2M and 97Xe playing up here for your 'throw' experience. Clearly 97xe is a more softer cartridge than a 2M.

Anil,
I will swap the head shells and see. No I believe the throw is not because of the cart. it could be due to the torque of Garrard. Anyway, I will compare after swapping the carts . Thanks for your observations

 

[malvai]

Last night, my brother and myself listened to both the Garrard 301 with SME 3012 arm and 2 M Red cart and Thorens 125 with SME 3012 arm with Shure 97 XE. While the Thorens was warmer and smoother to listen to, the 'throw' generated by Garrard 301 is certainly noteworthy.The Garrad is an all rounder while Thorens 125 is good for softer music of singers like Jim Reeves. I would like to compare the with JP which should sound sharper and leaner than the other two. I am wondering how these decks will stand against the new Super Decks of Clear Audio, Avid etc. Since the prices of these are way beyond my reach, I have no way to compare

Kuruvilla, 2 things... like anilva pointed out, the comparisons HAVE to be made with the same + cartridge + phono combo... you are mostly listening to the cartridge differences at the moment...

the other thing... I do have a super deck -- the clear audio ambient.... and I inadvertently make a comparison everyday...

I feel that a fully modded souped up TT like the 401 is as good as the CA... Though, both have very different presentations... its like chalk and cheese...

I like both! And hence no matter how much logic tells me to keep only one deck, I really can't make up my mind! So I am keeping both...

Further, having lived with a Thorens TD124, I can tell you that between the 401 and the CA Ambient, the TD124 is right in the middle.

It is not as 'ballsy' as the 401, and not quite detailed as the CA Ambient... it is a very smooth & polite player... like it, but didn't love it like the 401 or the CA Ambient.

The VPI Classic is a good modern player.... but I prefer the fully specced out 401 to it -- hands down!

Coimg back to an old classic again-- the Lenco L75, its a GREAT TT! Personally though, I find it just a notch or 2 lower overall when compared to the G 301 & 401... The main grouse being its el cheapo top plate.... it really has an impact on the overall sound... however, having said that (or rather typed that!) I'd say that the L75 when specced out is a darend good TT when compared to the modern big TT's... and considering that one can still get the Lenco L75 at the still affordable prices 25-40k (the prices are shooting up wildly every day)... one should just grab any lenco!

Personally, the TD 125 and other vintage belt driven TT's don't stand a chance in front of the Modern decks like the VPI/ CA / AVID etc... at best they'll hold their own again the entry level/mid level (under 1L) price point TT... But, that's that... Unless of course one wants to do some major modding to them....

 

[reubensm]

Great post, loaded with experience and honesty. Any thoughts on the SL1200?

Kuruvilla, 2 things... like anilva pointed out, the comparisons HAVE to be made with the same + cartridge + phono combo... you are mostly listening to the cartridge differences at the moment...

the other thing... I do have a super deck -- the clear audio ambient.... and I inadvertently make a comparison everyday...

I feel that a fully modded souped up TT like the 401 is as good as the CA... Though, both have very different presentations... its like chalk and cheese...

I like both! And hence no matter how much logic tells me to keep only one deck, I really can't make up my mind! So I am keeping both...

Further, having lived with a Thorens TD124, I can tell you that between the 401 and the CA Ambient, the TD124 is right in the middle.

It is not as 'ballsy' as the 401, and not quite detailed as the CA Ambient... it is a very smooth & polite player... like it, but didn't love it like the 401 or the CA Ambient.

The VPI Classic is a good modern player.... but I prefer the fully specced out 401 to it -- hands down!

Coimg back to an old classic again-- the Lenco L75, its a GREAT TT! Personally though, I find it just a notch or 2 lower overall when compared to the G 301 & 401... The main grouse being its el cheapo top plate.... it really has an impact on the overall sound... however, having said that (or rather typed that!) I'd say that the L75 when specced out is a darend good TT when compared to the modern big TT's... and considering that one can still get the Lenco L75 at the still affordable prices 25-40k (the prices are shooting up wildly every day)... one should just grab any lenco!

Personally, the TD 125 and other vintage belt driven TT's don't stand a chance in front of the Modern decks like the VPI/ CA / AVID etc... at best they'll hold their own again the entry level/mid level (under 1L) price point TT... But, that's that... Unless of course one wants to do some major modding to them....

 

[malvai]

Reubenism...

I feel that the SL 1200 is the last great deck that will go into the hall of fame!

It is a superb workhorse.... you can spend as much money on a TT as you like, but even a stock 1200 can bust the chops off a 1-1.5L TT....

then again, of one were to do basic mods like changing the tonearm, damping the base, and a few more, the SL1200 becomes a super unbeatable deck... It comes darn close to the 301 & 401... Overall, I feel the 301 & 401 are pretty unbeatable... but the SL1200 is a deck I will add to the chain.... i keep bringing it home from my brothers place and I know that having one in the chain is only inevitable!

so, if you are considering a 1200, GO FOR IT!

 

[arj]

Coimg back to an old classic again-- the Lenco L75, its a GREAT TT! Personally though, I find it just a notch or 2 lower overall when compared to the G 301 & 401... The main grouse being its el cheapo top plate.... it really has an impact on the overall sound... however, having said that (or rather typed that!) I'd say that the L75 when specced out is a darend good TT when compared to the modern big TT's... and considering that one can still get the Lenco L75 at the still affordable prices 25-40k (the prices are shooting up wildly every day)... one should just grab any lenco!

What i love about the lenco is the simplicity in its mechanism..its about as basic as it gets and some real innovation in how it changes its speed . there is nothing which is electronic and anyone can take it apart it put it back !
As a backup i have a spare spindle/motor and idler...and thats all i need as a backup in case anything goes wrong ( which again i doubt as the current one itself is 40 years old and still running smooth
the Top plate can be made up for in 2 ways 1. by damping its underside and 2. by screwing it tightly into the bottom wood plinth at several places ..the top plate becomes Inert and goes out of the equation.

..and then there is the PTP :clapping:

i dont think it will reach the cult status of the 301 though...as the motor of the garrard is apparently a thing of beauty . somehow even the 401 being technically superior has been unable to do that

 

[Record Player]

Reubenism...

I feel that the SL 1200 is the last great deck that will go into the hall of fame!

It is a superb workhorse.... you can spend as much money on a TT as you like, but even a stock 1200 can bust the chops off a 1-1.5L TT....

then again, of one were to do basic mods like changing the tonearm, damping the base, and a few more, the SL1200 becomes a super unbeatable deck... It comes darn close to the 301 & 401... Overall, I feel the 301 & 401 are pretty unbeatable... but the SL1200 is a deck I will add to the chain.... i keep bringing it home from my brothers place and I know that having one in the chain is only inevitable!

so, if you are considering a 1200, GO FOR IT!

Smiles, smiles and more smiles

Thanks for this view Malvai!

 

[stevieboy]

Kuruvilla, 2 things... like anilva pointed out, the comparisons HAVE to be made with the same + cartridge + phono combo... you are mostly listening to the cartridge differences at the moment...

I have a diametrically different take on this. Using the same components would show you differences in the table itself. But the inherent flaw in this approach is that you put both types of tables on an equal footing when they are really not by virtue of being mechanically and physically built very differently. For example the reason vintage SME arms pair so well with a Garrard is that they have a nice relaxed presentation that matches the forcefulness of the Garrard. On the other hand, relaxed airy presenters like the Linn are more found with tighter bearing tonearms. So the real purpose should be to optimise setups with tonearms and cart based on each turntables strengths and then compare presentations. Else one is doing something akin to making bruschetta with local Sunflower oil. Just won't optimise that bruschetta and give you a true taste of what the inherent dish is like, now will it?

Regards

 

[arj]

I have a diametrically different take on this. Using the same components would show you differences in the table itself. But the inherent flaw in this approach is that you put both types of tables on an equal footing when they are really not by virtue of being mechanically and physically built very differently. For example the reason vintage SME arms pair so well with a Garrard is that they have a nice relaxed presentation that matches the forcefulness of the Garrard. On the other hand, relaxed airy presenters like the Linn are more found with tighter bearing tonearms. So the real purpose should be to optimise setups with tonearms and cart based on each turntables strengths and then compare presentations. Else one is doing something akin to making bruschetta with local Sunflower oil. Just won't optimise that bruschetta and give you a true taste of what the inherent dish is like, now will it?

Regards

i agree on this.. somehow setting up and playing a TT is like conducting a symphony hyeah:

1. need a arm that goes well with the TT - relatively easy
2. need a cart which matches well with the arm - relatively tougher choice
3. need a phono which does well with the -- easy but could end up in $$$$$
4. get them all to like each other mechanically and electrically - tough
but getting 1+2+3+4 right= almost neverending unless you chose to give up

but once you get it right its heaven...but then there are days you still lose your hair