New Buisness: Network Attached storage

[naviworks]

I found this: Array R2 Mini ITX NAS Case w/ 300W SFX PSU - Fractal Design

Could not find it in india, ebay or amazon. I have contacted them directly and even a reseller. How ever i think you should go for a generic cabinet. Let me tell you why.

1. Generic cabinet, Low cost, easy availability more slots for adding hard disks at a later time
2. Will work with a standard PSU. The WHS that you have suggested has a power adapter (12 V, could not find current rating). What if it conks off? you will have to find a suitable replacement ( I know you are not buying this but this leads me to my 3rd point )
3. The small factor they achieve is due this power adapter, they need not house the power supply in the cabinet.
4. The cabinet you suggested has hot swap slots. I could not find any cabinet at that size that has hot swap slots. More over Hot swap is the feature of SATA controller of the motherboard. If the motherboard chipset supports AHCI and hot swap, you can open the cabinet, pull out the power of the relevant drive (be very careful not to plug out the wrong one) remove the hard disk. you will have some money going for a generic cabinet, may be you can get an extra hard disk from the money saved.
5. Moving on to WHS 2011, the license will be around 3-5K. why not go for something like freenas so that you save that money? ( if you are going to use the *ahem* version, then i dont mind ) FreeNas supports all protocols that WHS supports.
6. 25k is more than enough for the rest of the hardware.
7. Hot swap feature is best left alone.

Let me know what you think

hmm i felt many times why india has limited options in almost everything....ok a generic cabinet and no hot swap feature for me....ya i can accept that but i cannot live without small form factor for a nas (aka home server in my case)

can u give me options for

1) mobo (mini itx, usb 3.0,) what is the max number of harddisk that can be attached internally to a mini itx mobo?

2) processor (a powerful and graphical one not required as it will be used only for storage and streaming but a future proof one is expected)

3) cabinet (a small gud luking, cool and quiet which can accomodate 4 to 6 3.5 drives)

4) psu.

Am willing to pay for the licenced version of WHS 2011 but if the overall budget is out of limit, i ll be forced to use the *ahem* version

some more questions

1) what will be the approximate boot up time for the machine and how drastically will it reduce if i use SSD for the OS?

2) i hope the monitor is not required for the machine

3) will the free nas be user friendly as whs 2011

4) i already have a 250gb and 1 TB drives, the next one i buy will be 2 TB and then may be a 3 or 4 TB (when it comes to the market and depends on how fast i fill it). so i hope this mix n match doesnt affect the performance also since WHS 2011 shows the total capacity as one big single drive, finally if i want to replace the old 250 gb with a higher capacity drive i ll just take out the drive copy the contents and insert the new drive . am i correct or am i missing something?

 

[vaibhavyagnik]

Here is another Midrange config. hope you all like it.

2. Budget configuration


Advantages:
1. Low cost for 8 TB of storage
2. Can be used as NAS and HTPC
3. Supports DDR3 Memory
4. Small Form factor (mini ITX)
5. Good looking
6. Gigabit LAN
7. Should consume less than 80W
8. Supports USB 3.0

Disadvantages:
1. Can support a maximum of 4 Hard disks only. The constraint is due to the cabinet
2. No hardware RAID

Price: 37,000 + shipping at actuals.

@anm,
This is the config for you. Its very powerful for an HTPC all the while being low power. You can keep this rig on 24x7 without worrying about power costs. You can reduce the cost by deducting number of hard disks.

If you are looking for an HTPC cum Gaming cum NAS then you are better off with a normal computer running 4-5 2 TB hard disks. I can combine HTPC and NAS, but i cannot combine a NAS and a gaming PC, reason, NAS is intended to run unattended 24x7, if you were to insert a graphics card, even at idle the power draw will be quiet a bit higher than a NAS which i have suggested here. This will result in quiet a big cabinet (due to graphics card and a heavy duty PSU to run the graphics card, in addition to providing adequate space for proper airflow through the cabinet)

 

[vaibhavyagnik]

hmm i felt many times why india has limited options in almost everything....ok a generic cabinet and no hot swap feature for me....ya i can accept that but i cannot live without small form factor for a nas (aka home server in my case)

can u give me options for

1) mobo (mini itx, usb 3.0,) what is the max number of harddisk that can be attached internally to a mini itx mobo? Asus E350M1 Delux. Has 5 SATA 6 Gbps ports. form factor is mini ITX. Has usb 3.0. One thing you must understand is i am limited by space of cabinet and not by number of ports. I can install a PCIE SATA card and still can add 4 hard disks. but i dont have space!!

2) processor (a powerful and graphical one not required as it will be used only for storage and streaming but a future proof one is expected)Above board should satisfy all your needs

3) cabinet (a small gud luking, cool and quiet which can accomodate 4 to 6 3.5 drives) consider this: http://panache.co.in/store/product_info.php?products_id=178&PHPSESSID=a5815d5d54d8f99a1445b77233bb95794)

psu. Leave that to me, i never skimp on PSU

Am willing to pay for the licenced version of WHS 2011 but if the overall budget is out of limit, i ll be forced to use the *ahem* version

some more questions

1) what will be the approximate boot up time for the machine and how drastically will it reduce if i use SSD for the OS?If you are using freenas, then no. it can even boot from a 1 GB pendrive. As far as windows is concerned, boot times should get reduced by 1-2 minutes. But in my opinion, everybody of us can atleast wait 2 minutes while the server boots. why waste 5k on a 40 GB SSD when one can have a 1.5 TB hard disk in that amount?

2) i hope the monitor is not required for the machineNot required

3) will the free nas be user friendly as whs 2011I will have to try WHS first to comment. although i take responsibility for all configurations in freenas, will also provide remote support (only after office hours though. have got a full time job )

4) i already have a 250gb and 1 TB drives, the next one i buy will be 2 TB and then may be a 3 or 4 TB (when it comes to the market and depends on how fast i fill it). so i hope this mix n match doesnt affect the performance also since WHS 2011 shows the total capacity as one big single drive, finally if i want to replace the old 250 gb with a higher capacity drive i ll just take out the drive copy the contents and insert the new drive . am i correct or am i missing something?This thing is also possible in freeNAS through software and through JBOD (just a bunch of disk) in hardware. Different sized disks should not be a problem as long as you dont want RAID

 

[anm]

I know it is tough to have one box for all 3. Is there a way to switch on the graphics card only when needed? Maybe a physical switch.
Recently sony released some hardware that can use an external GPU via thunderbolt.

Sony Vaio Z Puts Graphics Card in Thunderbolt-Connected Box | Gadget Lab | Wired.com

 

[vaibhavyagnik]

Vaibhav - Good initiative and Im interested in this as well. Please can I suggest you go with two standard configs. one basic/budget and another advanced. This way you wouldn't need to address all the diverse requirements and incorporate most of them into the designs.

P.S: Just curious to know if a Squeezebox server can be run on NAS?

i have posted 2 configs already. Posting my 3rd and high end config:

3. High End NAS
Advantages:
1. Can be used as NAS, HTPC and low end gaming
2. Supports DDR3 Memory
3. Gigabit LAN
4. Supports USB 3.0
5. Supports eSATA
6. Exceptional expandability with 8 SATA ports. start with 2 TB and keep on adding as per requirement
7. Supports hardware raid

Disadvantages:
1. Bulky compared to other configurations
2. More power consumption than other configurations

Price: 62,000 + shipping at actuals.

You can reduce cost by opting for less number of hard disks

@anm
Buddy, its not possible. you risk ruining your graphics card if you disconnect the supply when its running. Windows will freeze (Assuming you use windows as your gaming platform). Even if you achieve to do so, then there is the hassle of connecting the cable from graphics card to motherboard display output. Then there is the problem of getting the graphics card getting detected again when you again put in the power. PCIE graphics card does not work like a usb thumb drive buddy.

@deepakgang
Freenas can certainly be used as a squeeze server

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Once a "NAS" grows in size, power, components, etc, to the size of a PC, how can you can it an "NAS?" It's a PC!

Something that is often forgotten: all PCs do file sharing. Does that make all PCs NAS?

 

[sarge_in]

^ +1.

While boundaries between NAS, file server and more capabailities often blur, the above is certainly venturing into more PC than NAS territory. Nothing wrong with it, if that's what you want.

Having seen some users' similar setups and their struggles with WHS, I have since moved to more 'regular' NAS. D-Link, Synology, QNAP, Netgear all offer various models of NAS with varying functionalities and extensibility that I feel are much easier to maintain along with a small footprint. The DS1511+ I currently have has 5 bays for upto 15TB space and costs $836 on Amazon currently (don't know availability/pricing in India). The space can be expanded to 45TB with DX510 units ($500 each with 5 more bays). Too many features to list, but I have never felt limited by any of its capabilities. Excellent feature set - regular NAS with online access to files, very decent torrent support, music server that streams songs to my iphone, photo server, DLNA, blog station, squeezebox server, security cam support with remote viewing on iphone/computer etc etc. Cheaper models with lesser bays and performance are also available (features are mostly the same still).

On the even cheaper side, D-Link has its DNS line of models with 2/4 bay models. But these are more basic with comparatively fewer features but still plenty for 'regular' NAS work.

 

[sabarirjpm]

Go the UnRAID way it rocks.

 

[vaibhavyagnik]

^ +1.

While boundaries between NAS, file server and more capabailities often blur, the above is certainly venturing into more PC than NAS territory. Nothing wrong with it, if that's what you want.

Having seen some users' similar setups and their struggles with WHS, I have since moved to more 'regular' NAS. D-Link, Synology, QNAP, Netgear all offer various models of NAS with varying functionalities and extensibility that I feel are much easier to maintain along with a small footprint. The DS1511+ I currently have has 5 bays for upto 15TB space and costs $836 on Amazon currently (don't know availability/pricing in India). The space can be expanded to 45TB with DX510 units ($500 each with 5 more bays). Too many features to list, but I have never felt limited by any of its capabilities. Excellent feature set - regular NAS with online access to files, very decent torrent support, music server that streams songs to my iphone, photo server, DLNA, blog station, squeezebox server, security cam support with remote viewing on iphone/computer etc etc. Cheaper models with lesser bays and performance are also available (features are mostly the same still).

On the even cheaper side, D-Link has its DNS line of models with 2/4 bay models. But these are more basic with comparatively fewer features but still plenty for 'regular' NAS work.

You can call it as a NAS for the poor :lol:
You see the synology NAS that you have used as an example comes upto roughly 42000 Rs. add to that another 22500 for hard disks and shipping cost. If you see my midrange config with a nice mini ITX cabinet, 4 Drive slots and 8 TB of space at 37,000 + shipping, expandable to upto 12 TB, most of us will agree that it is more economical and sensible to opt for this configuration if you dont have the moolah to spare.

@Thad E Ginathom
What makes a PC a PC and a NAS a NAS..its not the physical size of the machine or the storage space. Lets say we compare a Professional NAS with a personal computer running windows 7. Hardware wise they are similar, both NAS and PC will have a processor, a motherboard, RAM, gigabit ethernet, SATA ports so how do they differ? Well they differ by their aim and their operating systems that are designed by THEIR AIM. A NAS does not have to have a OS capable of running excel or converting video, audio or be able to multitask. Its required for more storage intensive tasks, like giving and taking data from network devices, establishing shares. so, it would be correct of you to say that WINDOWS/LINUX can perform the functions of freeNAS but FreeNAS will not be able to perform the functions of WINDOWS/LINUX.

Then again i did not understand how your comment is relevant to this topic

@sabarirjpm
unRAID has too less a hardware support list for my comfort. Plus unRAID does not natively come with bittorrent support. There are ways i know, but freeNAS is well, free, i do not have to pay if i want to add more than 3 hard disks and it natively supports bittorrent client transmission and as it is based of freebsd, has a huge hardware support list, ZFS swhich is now native to freenas 0.8 is a far more robust than NTFS.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Terminology. I just like things having the right names, and a full-on computer that just happens to be spending its life providing storage for other users on the network is a file server, and has been called such for a long, long time before manufacturers invented very specialised boxes called SAN and NAS.

I wonder, too, why the domestic user should ever require a file server or an NAS. Cynically, I think that, like a DAC, it has become a must-have, and the market will always rush to encourage and fulfil such things

Uncynically, in partial answer to myself, I reply that the user who has ripped a large CD collection, let alone a DVD collection, probably has more data than my ex-employer collected in their accounting and business databases over a decade. I also reflect that the streaming of a single movie from one device to another involves a huge amount of data, the delivery of which is very time-critical. Domestic users who want a NAS for their media collection, tell me that the reason is that they want a small box, that runs cool, draws little power, and needs no monitor etc, and they do not want to keep their PC powered up --- which is fair enough: they want a NAS, not a file server. I don't know how much they save with their NAS's: My PC, which does everything, is about the same spec as your last mentioned machine and draws as little as 120 watts with a 22-inch monitor.

Then again, some tell me that they need a NAS, because they simply want to share music and general files. They seem not to have noticed that even Windows will do that.

It's just the view of an old-fashioned sysadmin and IT manager that dogs are called dogs, cats are called cats, and neat little boxes that contain a pile of disks and do nothing but read and write them are called NAS --- big boxes that could do anything you throw at them, are called file servers.

Does it really matter? To me, yes, or I wouldn't be wasting my time writing this. To anybody else, particularly outside the IT industry? probably not...

I quibble. Sincerely, good luck with your machines.

 

[naviworks]

Asus E350M1 Delux. Has 5 SATA 6 Gbps ports. form factor is mini ITX. Has usb 3.0. One thing you must understand is i am limited by space of cabinet and not by number of ports. I can install a PCIE SATA card and still can add 4 hard disks. but i dont have space!!

is this mobo available in india?

although i take responsibility for all configurations in freenas, will also provide remote support

ok after some review about WHS am now convinced to use freenas:clapping:

and what file system the harddrive be formatted (ntfs, ext3) if i use freenas

 

[Imrahn]

is this mobo available in india?

Just got a quote of under 8k for Asus E35M1-M-PRO ....not sure what extras the Deluxe version packs,but the PRO is feature rich as well.

 

[sarge_in]

You can call it as a NAS for the poor :lol:
You see the synology NAS that you have used as an example comes upto roughly 42000 Rs. add to that another 22500 for hard disks and shipping cost. If you see my midrange config with a nice mini ITX cabinet, 4 Drive slots and 8 TB of space at 37,000 + shipping, expandable to upto 12 TB, most of us will agree that it is more economical and sensible to opt for this configuration if you dont have the moolah to spare.

The DS1511+ is anything but a midrange NAS . I therefore mentioned cheaper options like DS410 etc that are $500 for the unit + $300 for 4 x 2 TB gives a 8 TB unit for $800 - very close to your stated price. And features are pretty much the same as DS1511+, except some hit in performance (but still excellent).

Synology Network Attached Storage - Products :: DiskStation DS410

Once you add in all the features their DSM software provides in a single package with a very clean interface, the whole package becomes even more attractive. Over the years I have moved from tinkering with every small thing to getting something that works beautifully out of the box - the choice was quite limited not too far back, but things are changing.

I am sure the units you are proposing may have some additional functionality over 'just' a NAS, and those may well justify it for those looking for that added functionality.

 

[vaibhavyagnik]

The DS1511+ is anything but a midrange NAS . I therefore mentioned cheaper options like DS410 etc that are $500 for the unit + $300 for 4 x 2 TB gives a 8 TB unit for $800 - very close to your stated price. And features are pretty much the same as DS1511+, except some hit in performance (but still excellent).

Synology Network Attached Storage - Products :: DiskStation DS410

Once you add in all the features their DSM software provides in a single package with a very clean interface, the whole package becomes even more attractive. Over the years I have moved from tinkering with every small thing to getting something that works beautifully out of the box - the choice was quite limited not too far back, but things are changing.

I am sure the units you are proposing may have some additional functionality over 'just' a NAS, and those may well justify it for those looking for that added functionality.

when i read my post again, it appears as if i am being sarcastic, actually i was calling my configuration as the NAS for the poor. I apologize Sarge_in.

@ naviworks

Pro does not have wifi N on board. it also has less number of USB ports than the delux. However for a NAS, a Gigabit LAN is ideal. so Pro will be more suited to your needs all the while saving a couple of thousand bucks.

The Pro is certainly available in india. I will have to enquire about delux.

For Freenas 8 the native file system is ZFS, i.e Zettabyte File system.

 

[sarge_in]

when i read my post again, it appears as if i am being sarcastic, actually i was calling my configuration as the NAS for the poor. I apologize Sarge_in.

Please - I didn't take it as sarcastic at all and certainly no apologies required. I have myself used the D-Link DNS323 for last several years, which could well be called the most basic NAS for the poorest of the poor . It was only when it threw fits on streaming HD even with GB ethernet that I had to look elsewhere

And like I said, your units certainly have a great proposition and the fact that it allows someone who may not have researched all the options to get it all assembled is its USP. Best of luck to you!!

 

[naviworks]

Pro does not have wifi N on board. it also has less number of USB ports than the delux. However for a NAS, a Gigabit LAN is ideal. so Pro will be more suited to your needs all the while saving a couple of thousand bucks.

1) i donno much abt wifi N and gigabit LAN but as i told you earlier, i will be streaming bluray rips to my media player wirelessly and back up my PC and laptop periodically, so suggest me one which can fulfil the requirement. (as far as i understand gigabit lan is wired interface right? but we can also install usb wifi N card as an option....your thoughts?)

2) if the router is wifi N capable, cant i jus attach it through cable and access wirelessly by other device? confused

For Freenas 8 the native file system is ZFS, i.e Zettabyte File system.

3) can i format a new harddrive in ZFS using windows7? if not how to do it?

4) i jus came across this lian li mini itx casing. i would say a perfect one for my liking, is it by any chance available in India?

 

[srinisundar]

4) i jus came across this lian li mini itx casing. i would say a perfect one for my liking, is it by any chance available in India?

theITWares are dealing with that cases and you can shoot your request for the above mentioned cabinet.

TheITWares - One Stop for all Gizmos!

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

TheITWares has had some very bad coverage in a recent thread. It looks like they have no idea what warranty means.

Let's support dealers who, even if they do something wrong, at least make efforts to put it right.

Rahul ITWares - RMA Policy - Is this same for all?



.

 

[vaibhavyagnik]

1) i donno much abt wifi N and gigabit LAN but as i told you earlier, i will be streaming bluray rips to my media player wirelessly and back up my PC and laptop periodically, so suggest me one which can fulfil the requirement. (as far as i understand gigabit lan is wired interface right? but we can also install usb wifi N card as an option....your thoughts?)

Every wifi router has two methods by which other devies can be connected to it. One is the Wireless way and other is the cable way. For connecting through wireless no physical connection to router is required. Also a router has LAN ports. You can connect your device on one of this ports. For example if you have a wireless router to which your computer is connected to by cable and a mobile phone through wifi then all three i.e router, phone and computer will be able to talk with each other and will be called in LAN (Local area network). Advantage of wifi is more reach + no cable clutter while cables generally provide a more reliable sure shot connection. using Wifi with Freenas, well freenas though has a good in general hardware support, not every hardware is supported like in windows. So the hardware compatibility should be checked first with freenas. However if you have a gigabit router, i would suggest a wired connection over a wifi connection. its more reliable under heavy traffic

2) if the router is wifi N capable, cant i jus attach it through cable and access wirelessly by other device? confused

i do not understand your question

3) can i format a new harddrive in ZFS using windows7? if not how to do it?

No you cannot. ZFS is not supported by windows, atleast not natively

4) i jus came across this lian li mini itx casing. i would say a perfect one for my liking, is it by any chance available in India?

Good case. I will inquire. give me some time

 

[sarge_in]

1) i donno much abt wifi N and gigabit LAN but as i told you earlier, i will be streaming bluray rips to my media player wirelessly and back up my PC and laptop periodically, so suggest me one which can fulfil the requirement.

For streaming, wired connection between all concerned devices (NAS - Router/Switch - Media Player) is highly recommended. For streaming true HD (blu ray etc), wired is the ONLY reliable way, irrespective of what brand/model/technology of any component (NAS/router/media player) you use (at least the way things stand currently).

Other options are powerline networking, but they are very much dependent on electrical layout in your specific home, so you won't know if it will work for you unless you try it. Regular DVDs may be fine over wireless though.

Backup of PC/laptop over wireless is no problem.