New forum moderator required

[srinisundar]

I am going to put more than 100++++ audio CD's for sale... What is going to be the fate, i don't knowhyeah:

 

[amitksingh2003]

OK, after having gone through this thread thrice, I have noted down a few points that I think make sense.

(1) SMS Lingo to be restricted

(2) Change colour scheme (the possibility of this will be evaluated by SuperMod)

(3) Make it more user friendly for mobile devices? (again to be evaluated by SuperMod)

(4) Discussion or posts that add no value should be deleted. I would like some suggestions on how to do this. The only way I can see is to either block all posts for approval, or ruthlessly delete posts that I think are useless. The second method will generate a wave of anger and frustration.

(5) Threads started on existing topics should be merged. Threads in wrong section should be moved into the right section. This way we'll have organised information rather than diluted information all over the place. Agreed. May take time, but will see if we can do this forum by forum. Needs a lot of time.

(6) We should have stricter rules for 'trash' posts. Agreed. Will work with SuperMod to enhance the rule book.

(7) A cleanup is definitely required before the clutter increases. Agreed - same as (5)

(8) Healthy moderation of posts regarding quality of content, relevance of content, quality of language etc. A little too broad allowing for subjectivity in moderation.

(9) Posts by new members to be moderated before they appear. Agreed, but how do you measure new members? Less than 100 posts. less than 6 months on the forum. Remember there are members with a membership age of two years but less than 10 posts. How do you measure them?

(10) Remove all posts that are of no substantial value to a thread. Repeat offenders get infracted, temporarily banned and then perma-banned. (Eg. best wishes for your sale etc). Agreed. Same as (4).

(11) Ensure all posts are written in non-SMS, English language. Repeat offenders get infracted, temporarily banned and then perma-banned. Agreed.

(12) Disallow cross-posting. It's part of the rules but I've seen many people open threads in different sub-forums to get exposure. Repeat offenders get infracted, temporarily banned and then perma-banned. Agreed.

(13) Disallow new threads for existing topics. There must be a hundred threads about TVs in the 40K range. If everything lives in the same thread, the information get collated automatically. New members who default can be informed and senior members can be infracted. Agreed.

(14) Please remove the 'more than three letters' and 'minimum 30 sec' limitations in forum search. May not be possible due to software / application limitation. To check with SuperMod.

Another idea that has been floating around in my mind is that of a Forum Monitor. We can take interested members to be Monitors for the forum who will bring troublesome posts and threads to the attentions of the moderators. We can create a communication methodology for immediate attention. After a while, seeing the interest of the Monitors and their consent, we can make them full time moderators. The reason I am brining this up is because 'Report Threads' is not working at all. I see no threads being reported. For example, I was shocked recently to see a open fight going on in a thread on projectors, and I discovered it by chance when I was going through the lengthy thread.

Monitors must remember there will people with huge egos or convoluted ideas that conflict with yours. Fortunately you wont face their wrath till you become a moderator.

Please give me your feedback in a meaningful manner and I will work with the other moderators to implement them.

Cheers

Happy to see the list. It's good. I rarely take time to write on this forum as most most of the time I don't find myself with anything that contributes to the discussion. However, I go through most of the discussions and I enjoy the posts. There are some humorous posters here and lets not subject them to over-moderation. There are times when you really need to get away from the seriousness. The journey of life it self is the most serious experience, what's wrong if there is some humor.

While I am fine with current level of moderation, I find arrangement of posts a bit hay-wired and expect more neatly arranged information from the forum. For example, there are so many wonderful reviews in this forum on various products. But scattered here and there. Why shouldn't be there an option that I select a product and get a comprehensive review on that with indicative price range at a place. It will prevent many of the new-bee questions on what product, as new members will be first expected to go through them first.

As far as un-necessary replies to some of the threads are concerned, moderation are subjective. Pros and cons are debatable endlessly. Mods should formate a policy and take a call accordingly. For example, "good wishes" on a for sale thread are irritating at times, but then they might bump a slightly inactive thread to the benefit of the seller and bring it back again to the lime light. I personally found it very difficult to go through the "showcase your setup" thread initially, browsing through hundreds of pages and finding pictures of actual setups only after the interval of 4 to 5 pages. Rest all posts relating to congratulations and why your dog sitting between you speaker and your sitting position affecting the acoustics Now when I complete my setup after lot of pain and post some pics, I do expect some response from fellow members... Comments/praise/suggestions etc. Again a call from mods as to whether to have separate threads or to dilute a dedicated "showcase" thread. Please be careful with point no.4.

Amit
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[prasun.gera]

The nature of social behaviour of a group of people can, in many ways, be judged by the way they drive on the roads. If we open a few more forums, that will also be misused and, in a short time, we will all be discussing how to control the new menace.

As far as I can see, there are just two types of sellers. An owner who has a few extra items, and a dealer who wants to hawk his items. If you bring a 100 sealed items from somewhere, you should become a dealer and hawk your stuff. Please remember there have been many other large item sales by members. For example, I have seen Srini and many others sell off their BR collection in batches as they either ripped them or got bored with them. There were no issues then. Why? Simply because the very nature of the transaction did not raise any doubts in our mind. Recently Absolute Phase has listed some 250 LPs. Have there been any questions? Absolutely none. Why? The same reason.

What I would appreciate is a member who has some smart way of laying his hands on a number of movies and CDs and makes them available to us at discounted prices - meaning prices that are lower than the market. I do understand that the market can take a particular price. If I am ready to pay a market price, why would I buy here? I would buy from a shop that would at least give me a guarantee.

I think some dealers are doing better service to HFV members in terms of the group buys. You not only get products at very low prices, you get them delivered to your home, and you get a guarantee to boot.

Ultimately my dream is to make HFV a one stop shop for all our AV needs. You want a cable at a particular price? You can get it here. You want a CD Player? You can get it here. You want, for example, a difficult to get product from the US? No problem, HFV will get it for you. All these at prices much lower than the market price. That will be the ultimate camaraderie. You want a product to be reviewed without bias? We will do it for you. You want some specific information? We will give it to you.

Frankly if you want to make money as a owner / seller or other form of mask you are wearing at that moment, go to Ebay. As I said in a disputed sale thread, I want the buyer and seller to continue to be friends and help each other after the sale. Remember, if the transaction leaves a sour taste in your mouth, however good the seller is, you will start disliking him. That is something I don't want to happen in HFV. I have learnt a lot about AV here at HFV, and I consider this to a storehouse of knowledge for all of us.

And that is more important than anything else.

Cheers

While I really appreciate the sentiment, I feel that the goals that you want to achieve are contradictory within the current scope of the forum. In fact, I feel that the misplaced sense of camaraderie and bonhomie is what is most responsible for the dissatisfaction expressed by everyone on the 'For Sale' threads. On one hand, as you said, everyone wants exotic stuff from all over the world to be available here. And there are people who have the stuff and are wiling to sell it. So far so good, and all honky dory.

The trouble starts when you try to match the two under the common umbrella of good will, camaraderie and try to call it a community driven effort. Which is what the common 'For sale by owners' thread represents. Or at least, it has come to mean that, and it is best left that way. While there is nothing intrinsically wrong in pricing your stuff at whatever price you want, and fairness of price is always debatable, the difference in expectations often creates problems. The seller doesn't want people visiting the thread to make wisecracks about the fairness of price. The buyers don't want to get duped. This friction peaks when someone is selling a lot of sealed/like new/just opened once stuff. The reason, as I said, is that everyone is expecting everyone else to behave like gentlemen and hoping that the sale is the most altruistic thing the seller has ever done. Which is not true.

So what is the solution? Should these sales be allowed? Certainly. It meets the objective of making things available which are possibly hard to get. How do we alleviate the friction? This is not so easy to answer. But I feel that one thing is fairly clear. The way people look at the current FS thread, these sales don't fit in there very well. Should they go to the dealers' section? Probably, but again, its not always entirely clear if you would call the guy a dealer. In any case, I feel that we can benefit from some middle ground.

 

[olly42]

What I would appreciate is a member who has some smart way of laying his hands on a number of movies and CDs and makes them available to us at discounted prices - meaning prices that are lower than the market. I do understand that the market can take a particular price. If I am ready to pay a market price, why would I buy here? I would buy from a shop that would at least give me a guarantee.

I think some dealers are doing better service to HFV members in terms of the group buys. You not only get products at very low prices, you get them delivered to your home, and you get a guarantee to boot.

Ultimately my dream is to make HFV a one stop shop for all our AV needs. You want a cable at a particular price? You can get it here. You want a CD Player? You can get it here. You want, for example, a difficult to get product from the US? No problem, HFV will get it for you. All these at prices much lower than the market price. That will be the ultimate camaraderie. You want a product to be reviewed without bias? We will do it for you. You want some specific information? We will give it to you. :clapping:

Venkatcr - very well said In order to realize this dream we would all need to work together as one team/community/forum (call it what you like) and I am sure this is achievable

 

[doors666]

When someone posts a good luck on your sale, or Welcome to a new member, it is just another form of spam. I can understand one person saying welcome, but come on, do all of need to welcome a new member? Imagine if 10 people join in a given day and all of us welcome the new member. We have around 15000 members, so that makes 1,50,000 welcome messages, you get the picture.

Lets make a rule allowing only one welcome or good luck for your sale message in these threads, the first guy wins. I have seen members that have posted as many messages in 3 months as I have in 3 years (I agree I dont post much though). When you see the messages that they have posted, I see tons and tons of these kinds of meaning less posts.

Another over due change is allowing the user to select which subforums threads should be displayed (or not displayed) when I click on Unread Posts on the top of the page. Many other forums allow the user this flexibility. I am more interested in "General chit chat" forum (which is not displayed when I click on unread posts) than I am in the DTH or cable or TV forums. Now a days whenever I click on unread posts, I get a feeling - junk, junk, junk, junk. I should be able to see only the forums that I want to see, and dont ask me to goto individual forums of interest as that is extremely inconvenient.

We should seriously consider making some threads sticky and related posts should be only posted on these. Threads posted elsewhere on these issues will be deleted. Some recommendations:

TATA Sky related stuff.
Airtel related stuff. bigtv related stuff etc... any posts related to these should go there. And please dont create a thread everytime a DTH guy adds a new channel.

30-42" plasma/lcd tv thread.
Budget <1.25 lacs HT system recommendations thread.
AVR below 50k thread.
Amp below 50k thread.

 

[square_wave]

I am also in complete agreement with Doors and sid on this. I do not think one needs to give out any more details than the following for a sale thread:

- Selling price
- Current price in India
- Condition of product
- Date of purchase with proof if any.
- Other helpful material like links to reviews, packing material, shipping etc...

The rest is upto the buyer. Original price paid, reason for sale are all very PERSONAL.
For eg: Someone may have picked up something in Europe for a very competitive price. He surely has not reached Europe in some "time travel device"
He has spend a barrel-load of money to reach there. Expecting someone to sell it less than the price he paid in Europe is absurd

 

[hydra]

When someone posts a good luck on your sale, or Welcome to a new member, it is just another form of spam. I can understand one person saying welcome, but come on, do all of need to welcome a new member? Imagine if 10 people join in a given day and all of us welcome the new member. We have around 15000 members, so that makes 1,50,000 welcome messages, you get the picture.

Lets make a rule allowing only one welcome or good luck for your sale message in these threads, the first guy wins. I have seen members that have posted as many messages in 3 months as I have in 3 years (I agree I dont post much though). When you see the messages that they have posted, I see tons and tons of these kinds of meaning less posts.

...

Very relevant.

I also try to post only when I can contribute in some way, or there is something I really want to say/ask.

There is one way we can make such welcome posts or best-wishes-on-your-sale posts less attractive to people who are concerned more with increasing their post-counts than with genuinely wishing people: The forum software can perhaps be setup in such a way that posts in those sections do not add to a poster's post-count.

Perhaps making a rule limiting posts in the "Introductions" section may not really be a good move. We do want to make new members feel welcome when they introduce themselves, don't we?

As for the "For sale by members" section, I do think it will be a good thing if all threads (that have not been closed by the OP) that are inactive for more than say 5 days, get an automatic bump. This will be fair and reasonable to the OP (and the rest of the forum) and will perhaps cut down on the community-bumps.

 

[cmsajith]

Welcome messages can be restricted to one and its better from any (FCFS) of the mods on behalf of the hfv community and he can close the thread.

When someone posts a good luck on your sale, or Welcome to a new member, it is just another form of spam. I can understand one person saying welcome, but come on, do all of need to welcome a new member? Imagine if 10 people join in a given day and all of us welcome the new member. We have around 15000 members, so that makes 1,50,000 welcome messages, you get the picture.

Lets make a rule allowing only one welcome or good luck for your sale message in these threads, the first guy wins. I have seen members that have posted as many messages in 3 months as I have in 3 years (I agree I dont post much though). When you see the messages that they have posted, I see tons and tons of these kinds of meaning less posts.

Another over due change is allowing the user to select which subforums threads should be displayed (or not displayed) when I click on Unread Posts on the top of the page. Many other forums allow the user this flexibility. I am more interested in "General chit chat" forum (which is not displayed when I click on unread posts) than I am in the DTH or cable or TV forums. Now a days whenever I click on unread posts, I get a feeling - junk, junk, junk, junk. I should be able to see only the forums that I want to see, and dont ask me to goto individual forums of interest as that is extremely inconvenient.

We should seriously consider making some threads sticky and related posts should be only posted on these. Threads posted elsewhere on these issues will be deleted. Some recommendations:

TATA Sky related stuff.
Airtel related stuff. bigtv related stuff etc... any posts related to these should go there. And please dont create a thread everytime a DTH guy adds a new channel.

30-42" plasma/lcd tv thread.
Budget <1.25 lacs HT system recommendations thread.
AVR below 50k thread.
Amp below 50k thread.

 

[Hiten]

Fellowbuddies,

More rules=less fun (fun=hobby) as more rules will require extra vigilance from mods. No matter how many rules are made problem will still persist. But hey! all ideas should be welcome.

~ Who will ask newbies to follow rules ? Isn't that the case most often ? A new member breaks rules, others complain by posting which adds more clutter to the thread. unnecessary off topic posts are piled up. All one has to do is report the offending post and state reason. It is always good to improve things but forum is already good with enough rules. All one has to do is use the forum facilities and abide by the rules and 'little' bit of self discipline. You have the power to be a 'moderator' all along.

~ Regarding senior members most of them follow rules most of the time. Mistakes may and will happen. But one has no option other than laugh it off, Ignore or report. Think about it more strict rules will be like a communist country a dull place without free speech. Kind of uninteresting.

~ Other thing is we easily get offended (for ex. You better not speak of any ill of my mission 323i speakers, even if you look at them wrong way I get very offended) Our egos are easily hurt. All suggestion should be welcome but are easily ridiculed because one doesn't agree with them. (By the way santhosh's idea of having a name tag on shirt in bangalore hifi meet is very good suggestion. I would hate to look at fellow members and stupidly give courtesy smile at them or be totally ignorant of who he/she is or continuously ask everyone what his/her name is).

~ This forum has free registration, For sale is free, Information is free, Knowledge is free. So I find no reason to complain if a registered dealer or distributor who has paid money displays his items frequently, makes them prominent, highlights their features. Says in his/her opinion they are best products.

~If "all the best for sale" "Wow wonder full product" are irritating one can always ignore them. Since Bump is not allowed in my honest opinion the seller should be given to repost sell item say after one/two month.

~ Don't know why welcome post are not welcome. If one finds them irritating one can avoid that thread. A new member feels good when other members welcome him/her, exchange few notes/info, kind of get to know each other. (Would hate if any technical/intelligent new member joins and says "Hello everyone" and no one responds to him/her)

Recently Absolute Phase has listed some 250 LPs.

Where ? What is the price ? me no see any collated items posted of black discs in for sale segment. Sorry for being offtopic and breaking the rules

All are my personal views and no offence to anyone.

 

[sidvee]

For eg: Someone may have picked up something in Europe for a very competitive price. He surely has not reached Europe in some "time travel device"
He has spend a barrel-load of money to reach there. Expecting someone to sell it less than the price he paid in Europe is absurd

Very well stated square. One has to consider landed price of the product in India and use that as a benchmark for setting a fair price.
Cheers
Sid

 

[srinisundar]

Very well stated square. One has to consider landed price of the product in India and use that as a benchmark for setting a fair price.
Cheers
Sid

I don't think anybody has argued about the landed price or quoted price, just ask only how much it cost or for how much do you bought it for Itz not going to hurt anything and everybody knows shipping+customs is always involved.

Yes strictly it is individual choice to include extra amount which is involved. as like dealers they are telling that they are adding up the shipping charges + customs charges + local VAT + their margin. So no harm in adding extra bucks for the risks they have taken and make sure for the second owners to enjoy and give it in working condition

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Referring back to the title and original subject...

How ever many moderators the forum has, voluntary moderation is always down to the number of hours that any person, who may have numerous other activities and responsibilities, is able to contribute. Just now, Vencat seems to be the man.

My feeling is that it is not fair on Venkat, and that a forum this size need three to four active moderators. Admiting, of course, that this is not really my business.

I'd also like to say that this is a great thread. It is probably the most genuinely constructive and positive thread about moderation that I've seen on any forum. They usually become slanging matches. In itself, this says a lot about the quality of the forum: Moderators and members, let's give ourselves a pat on the back!

 

[Bluu]

^ +1

Sensible as ever, Thad. I've said in a few posts before in this thread that we need more mods and not just better mods.

Venkat is swamped, I'm sure. I spend many hours on HFV because of the nature of my job and I can't even read all the posts casually, let alone with a moderating intent.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Ahh, Bluu... wish I was so "sensible" off-line :lol:

But thanks

 

[venkatcr]

For eg: Someone may have picked up something in Europe for a very competitive price. He surely has not reached Europe in some "time travel device" He has spend a barrel-load of money to reach there. Expecting someone to sell it less than the price he paid in Europe is absurd

Look at it this way. If you want a Oppo 93 today it is available in India at prices varying from 45K to 60K in what is essentially the grey market. I have seen people buy it at those prices. This is commerce and it will be controlled by supply and demand. I have no issues with that.

Let us say as a member you have been watching this happening in the market and you make a trip to the US on office business or even as a tourist. You see the 93 available (at today's XE.COM conversion rate) at 22,170. So you think - man there is a huge demand for this and let me make some money. So you pick up one or two 93's and hawk them in HFV at 45K. This is where you cross the thin line between being a member and a dealer. At the same, time let us say you paid US$500 and picked up a piece for yourself, and the decided you want to sell it for some reason. You come to HFV and put it up for sale. How much would you ask? 30K, 35K, 40K, 45K or even 60K?

The point in HFV sale by owners is not the price, not what the market can bear, but the intention. I had a 983H that I was not using. I found a soul who was looking for a SACD player desperately. We agreed on a reasonable price and that was it. We were both gainers. I sold off a product I was not using, and the buyer got a player to play his SACDs.

If a person spends money to travel all the way to Europe only to buy stuff to sell on HFV, what is he? If you look at it from the intent, you will understand the difference I am trying to make.

If you are eager to spend money to go to Europe and bring back 6 CD Players to hawk on HFV, I have no objection. But, please do it as a dealer. Distribute the cost of a return ticket (60K) between the 6 CD players, and see what minimum price you have to sell the player at. It will not make any economic sense - to you as a seller, and to me as a buyer.

What I am trying to unravel is to identify the intent of the member when he creates a For Sale By Owner thread.

Cheers

 

[sidvee]

I don't think anybody has argued about the landed price or quoted price, just ask only how much it cost or for how much do you bought it for Itz not going to hurt anything and everybody knows shipping+customs is always involved.

Unfortunately I do not think people always add shipping + customs. It has been my experience in 2-3 items I have sold. Of-course I have always sold at or close to Audiogon pricing. Anyways I am not disputing if one wants to know the price at which the seller bought - that should be transparent and IMO a good seller will disclose it.
My main concern is this - please bear with me as I am going OT (this will be my last post on this subject): Used hi-fi market in India is in its infancy and mid fi and hi-fi equipment seldom come up for sale, if at all. Importing used equipment from overseas is almost next to impossible - I know I have tried few times - due to many reasons - mainly sellers not wanting to ship internationally, shipping costs/risks, customs etc. Unfortunately in this nascent situation in the few posts that do appear genuine, the seller is subject to a lot of disdain and discomfort (as if it is his duty to sell at the lowest price without regards to cost recovery let alone any profit provided it is comparable to the market rates). My ultimate fear is we will scare away even the few who want to sell and end up with folks trying to hawk minor items. I got into this hobby on used equipment and still upgrade using used equipment and I know a lot of others who did so. I would not be where I am - equipmentwise - if I did not sell my used equipment at a decent price and move upwards. That is all I am calling attention to and not with any intent of offending anyone.
Cheers
Sid

 

[sidvee]

If you are eager to spend money to go to Europe and bring back 6 CD Players to hawk on HFV, I have no objection. But, please do it as a dealer. Distribute the cost of a return ticket (60K) between the 6 CD players, and see what minimum price you have to sell the player at. It will not make any economic sense - to you as a seller, and to me as a buyer.

What I am trying to unravel is to identify the intent of the member when he creates a For Sale By Owner thread.

Cheers

Venkat IMO anybody who creates a "For sale by Owner thread" and is trying to sell a brand new piece of equipment automatically should be considered a dealer, because a genuine Hi-fi enthusiast/audiophile will never take the trouble of getting a brand new piece and selling it immediately. Of-course there will be exceptions but they will be far and few in-between and can be considered on case by case basis.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[jaudere]

Someone please tell me what is the advantage of increasing the post count?
I see many people mentioning that "useless posts are created to increase post count".

Now I agree that the posts that they are referring to are really useless but still I don't understand how the additional posts in front of my name are useful to me.
Is there any discount or something if my posts are ,say, more than 1000 or so?

 

[Bluu]

Someone please tell me what is the advantage of increasing the post count?
I see many people mentioning that "useless posts are created to increase post count".

Now I agree that the posts that they are referring to are really useless but still I don't understand how the additional posts in front of my name are useful to me.
Is there any discount or something if my posts are ,say, more than 1000 or so?

The idea is that if the number of posts is increased, only members who are contributing regularly to the forum will be allowed to post items for sale. The flip-side is that in order to reach that x number of posts, people will start posting irrelevant posts just to increase their count. Currently, a member needs to be on the forum for 31 days and has to make 32 posts before being allowed to list items for sale.

 

[venkatcr]

Now I agree that the posts that they are referring to are really useless but still I don't understand how the additional posts in front of my name are useful to me. Is there any discount or something if my posts are ,say, more than 1000 or so?

Some time ago there was subtle competition as to which member has the highest number of posts. Some people thought that I was also a participant in that competition. In a way I was till I was the futility of the whole process.

Cheers