Opinions on Acoustic Portrait's new Swara Pre and Power Amps

[square_wave]

No doubt the AP DAC is at par with some of the best DAC's features wise.

But more technical details about the asynchronous USB implementation, S/PDIF receiver, DAC's chips and the kind of output stage used would help attract more buyers.

Yup..I agree with you that much information is not available on the website about the implementation. Perhaps this should be a feedback to AP

The first generation of this DAC (non usb, tubed and a slightly different design) was an attempt to improve upon the Reimyo DAC DAP 777. He succeeded. The current one is a much better design. From what I have heard, the usb is assync and a stellar implementation.

 

[spirovious]

MRP is around 88k(may be combo, DAC + Transport)-
http://www.hifivision.com/press-release/25759-new-website-acoustic-portrait-up.html
Post 6.

Just got reply,DAC 88k+vat 14% & same price for Transport.

 

[iaudio]

Yup..I agree with you that much information is not available on the website about the implementation. Perhaps this should be a feedback to AP

The first generation of this DAC (non usb, tubed and a slightly different design) was an attempt to improve upon the Reimyo DAC DAP 777. He succeeded. The current one is a much better design. From what I have heard, the usb is assync and a stellar implementation.

square_wave, are you talking about the tda1541 based DAC?

Imho, the present dac sounds fantastic thru usb when I heard GVenu play some standard as well as high res music thru his laptop!

 

[moktan]

Just got reply,DAC 88k+vat 14% & same price for Transport.

"On the Thiyaga range of products, we are offering a 10% discount; The discounted price of the DAC including VAT would be Rs.90,288/-. This price is valid only until end of this May."

 

[apk]

There are two types of hifi in the market today.

A - Those that are designed by the board of people consisting of the biz dev managers, marketing guys and lastly the development guy. Such gear usually sound very popular and will reflect what the general audiophile is looking for. Very purposeful designs which will excite and entice the listener instantly!

B The ones that are the result of a very specific vision and belief system. Engineering is based on very solid scientific foundations but design path is driven by a very specific vision. Usually such designs have a single person or core team who believe in a certain philosophy. This philosophy is derived from many years of experience with various high fidelity equipment - their weaknesses and strengths. The driving forces behind such designs are usually an endeavor to circumvent the ailments that is present in many alternative solutions.

AP belongs to the second category. There are many such designs in the audiophile world. Green mountain audio, Emerald physics are some which come immediately to mind. To understand these designs, one needs to understand the vision and then spend enough time with them. Then the beauty will unfold if the audiophile mind is open to it. To me AP is a stellar example of very high fidelity equipment.

Their DAC is one of the best available anywhere in the world. I am not joking.

Agree with you square_wave on the 'vision and belief system' part. Similiar to AP, I also find the vision and philosophy of some other Indian mom'n'pop setups such as Lyrita, Enbee and Norge very appealing. Though Mr Nakra of Enbee has stopped producing amplifiers and speakers, the passion and feeling that he displays even after five decades in the business is infectious. The experience of listening to such products is as much an emotional connect with the people who create these products. To be able to really appreciate these products, you really need to understand the person(s) behind creating them. I have heard the Lyritas a couple of times, and have met Viren. I am sure many of you here would agree that his products reflect his personality.

On a side note, can you let me know whether the swara pre-amp has a phono section?

Thanks,
Anand.

 

[square_wave]

@iaudio,

Not sure about the chip. From what I remember it was a texas instrument chip.

@apk,

I am sure the preamp does not have a phono section.

 

[jls001]

square_wave, are you talking about the tda1541 based DAC?

Very unlikely to be 1541. This chip has been out of production for a long time now. Unless AP gets hold of a stash of NOS chips. Also, the Thiyaga DAC seems to be 24/192 capable whereas the 1541 was a 16-bit chip.

 

[santhosh]

The AP DAC that CaptRajesh has is a tube output dual 1541 NOS chip design. It think this is the one that squarewave mentioned to be as good/better than the Reimyo.

Like Joshua mentioned, the Thiyaga DAC must definitely have a different chip than the 1541 as it has hi-resolution 24/192 capabilities which the NOS chip does not have.


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[trittya]

"On the Thiyaga range of products, we are offering a 10% discount; The discounted price of the DAC including VAT would be Rs.90,288/-. This price is valid only until end of this May."

90K for a 'beep'-ing DAC is preposterous by ANY standards, custom-made and all that 'beep', notwithstanding.
That sounds more BOSE-ish than BOSE.

C'mon , guys, wake up, if you have money to throw around, (do) do so elsewhere, where its more worth its while. A gold plated maruti 800, after all, still remains what it essentially is - A Maruti 800.

A DAC for 90 K is like buying a 'beep'-ing VERTU mobile. Or like buying a Red Wine Audio Tripath amp for at least 20 times of what it ought to be. Even if I could, I wouldn't (buy either).

On the contrary,both the money and commonsense are your own. Suit yourself if you must, but count me out.

I am absolutely baffled

(I really dont know whether to laugh or cry . . . .)
On second thoughts, I choose to laugh at this and request all level headed FMs to do likewise.

Cheerio

PS - We have a saying in Punjabi, the translated versions follow

Punjabi- "Je kar mareez nu hakim te vasaah hovey, taan araam te onu swaah di choondi naal vi aa jau"
Hindi - "Agar mareez ko hakim par yakeen ho, toh ilaaz toh ek raakh ki choonti se ho jata hai"
Angrezi - "If the patient trusts the hakim, cure is possible with just a pinch of ash"

Request all to think about it. You may not agree with me, but thats not what I ask for.
I, most humbly, rest my case, hereon.

No offense meant, whatsoever, but I couldn't have slept peacefully w/o having said what I did.

The aim is to submit some food for thought, so lets chew over this deliberately . . . .

 

[Dr.Bass]

I have also spent a lot of time listening to various AP products throughout different versions. One thing that is guaranteed with their products is clean, high resolution, neutral sound, no matter the price point. As you keep adding more AP products to the chain the whole concept really takes shape, it really makes sense to go all AP. They are affordable if not cheap, but sonically the price performance ratio is superb so one may end up thinking they are cheap after an audition!

BTW, I still do not know of an equipment which can do Hindustani classical as good as a AP combo.

 

[arj]

90K for a 'beep'-ing DAC is preposterous by ANY standards, custom-made and all that 'beep', notwithstanding.
That sounds more BOSE-ish than BOSE.

. . . .

Hi. Actually did not get what you are trying to say.. Do you have a problem with acoustic portrait only as a brand Or with all 90K and higher gear ?




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[Thad E Ginathom]

Hmmm... what price a DAC? I've often quoted my imaginary hifi marketing dept meeting: "Wow! we can make something with a fraction of the functionality of a sound card, and sell it at several times the price! In fact they will pay whatever they are used to paying for a 'hifi' item!"

I'm sincere in my cynicism. I firmly believe that much of this pricing is on the basis of what the market will stand, rather than being related to either cost or value.

On the other hand, a sound card can cost over a thousand UK pounds, and, from the Chennai meet demo, I certainly don't doubt either AP's sincerity or their sound quality, which I thought was wonderful.

 

[arj]

Hmmm... what price a DAC? I've often quoted my imaginary hifi marketing dept meeting: "Wow! we can make something with a fraction of the functionality of a sound card, and sell it at several times the price! In fact they will pay whatever they are used to paying for a 'hifi' item!"

I'm sincere in my cynicism. I firmly believe that much of this pricing is on the basis of what the market will stand, rather than being related to either cost or value.

On the other hand, a sound card can cost over a thousand UK pounds, and, from the Chennai meet demo, I certainly don't doubt either AP's sincerity or their sound quality, which I thought was wonderful.

Hi thad, from the conversation i have had , Cost vs price for a typical electronic product (including branding/sales/salary/logistics and margins) is x 5 ie if you can make one for 1000 then the sale price is 4-5K min (any currency).

Now if one makes it oneself(assuming you know exactly what to do and how to do it) the cost may still be in the 2X range of a large manufacturer as the material costs for small qtys are much higher , but you might still be abeleto make it at 1/2 the sale price.

 

[trittya]

Hi. Actually did not get what you are trying to say.. Do you have a problem with acoustic portrait only as a brand Or with all 90K and higher gear ?

Hiya, Arj,
Nice to hear from you. Neither, mate, not in the least. I dont have any problems with Acoustic Portrait at all. On the contrary, I hold Siva and his creations in very high esteem. Just that 90K for a mere DAC is very tough to swallow. It may be very good, no doubt, but I wouldnt put my money on it and would be quite concerned if any of my friends did so.

Let me give you another example, since I drew a simile' with BOSE.

Bose products dont sound bad at all but they are not worth half the price that they come at. However, Bose doesnt market its products with an "audiophile tag" but more often than not as a "lifestyle product". The said marque is now more of a marketing phenomenon than a technological one.

As regards having anything against 90K and above products, well, that does indeed sound very far fetched to me. No, I have nothing against that either, only that if I spend 90K on a product, I would surely expect to get my money's worh, thats all.

Case in point is that, I was telling the Captain the other day, that I wish I could have bought his AP combo which is on sale as of now. Those of us who know will bear witness to the fact that I am not known to say things that I dont mean. Just that I have exhausted my cash reserves and can't afford it due to many an audio product in the pipeline.

However, if you loan me 50 K for a year, interest free, I ll buy that combo right way if its not already sold. hyeah:

I dont mean to ruffle any feathers or show anyone in poor light, nor get into vicious argument(s).

But I do have a right to speak my mind
(w/o demeaning anyone, least of all someone whose work I do admire a lot)
and I do believe thats all I have done.

The thread is about the AP Swara pre-power combo and as is evident, I havent said a word against either of those products. Enough said. Period.

Regards,
Cheerio

PS - I really like your signature, very thought provoking, I must say. Nice, indeed.

 

[trittya]

@ Arj
Your kind attention invited to post #s 24, 27, 29 and 34 here in support of what I have submitted above.

http://www.hifivision.com/sale-owner/27038-acoustic-portrait-pre-power-amplifiers-3.html

Cheerio

 

[Dr.Bass]

Just that 90K for a mere DAC is very tough to swallow. It may be very good, no doubt, but I wouldnt put my money on it and would be quite concerned if any of my friends did so.


As regards having anything against 90K and above products, well, that does indeed sound very far fetched to me. No, I have nothing against that either, only that if I spend 90K on a product, I would surely expect to get my money's worh, thats all.

Two questions:
1. How do you evaluate a DAC's worth ?

2. There are tons of DACs in hifi that costs $5k+ and many in $10k+, quite a few $20k+ and Accuphase, Audio Notes that cost $50k+. They are all DACs, what do you think about them ?

 

[Oakley]

Had demo in my place in Bellary for couple of day's, the AP swara range, actually can say nothing special about them, just that finish of wood panel(Bezel) is good, which they claim is finished in china (full chassis)

as i have heard several DAC's costing more, on practical note found lot of DAC's sold on eBay to better them, wonder why AP has not gone international when they sound better as claimed. the beauty of Swara is in the finish, but is the cost justified between beauty and performance.

Oak

 

[Oakley]

There are tons of DACs in hifi that costs $5k+ and many in $10k+, quite a few $20k+ and Accuphase, Audio Notes that cost $50k+. They are all DACs, what do you think about them ?

Agree with you, DAC's costing, in excess of several $$$ need not sound better or good.
a simple and well engineered DAC can sound better than Expensive names.my view point.

oak

 

[arj]

I dont mean to ruffle any feathers or show anyone in poor light, nor get into vicious argument(s).

But I do have a right to speak my mind
(w/o demeaning anyone, least of all someone whose work I do admire a lot)
and I do believe thats all I have done.

The thread is about the AP Swara pre-power combo and as is evident, I havent said a word against either of those products. Enough said. Period.

Regards,
Cheerio

PS - I really like your signature, very thought provoking, I must say. Nice, indeed.

Right you are..thats what forums are for and everyone is absolutely entitled to an opinion ..especially one with a rationale to it

 

[captrajesh]

Had demo in my place in Bellary for couple of day's, the AP swara range, actually can say nothing special about them, just that finish of wood panel(Bezel) is good

IMHO, the SQ of any would system would be dependent on synergy between individual pieces of equipment, not to mention, on things as inconsequential looking as I/Cs and speaker cables. Could you explain what are the other equipment in the chain.

finish of wood panel(Bezel) is good, which they claim is finished in china (full chassis)

Is it so, news to me! Where?

as i have heard several DAC's costing more, on practical note found lot of DAC's sold on eBay to better them, wonder why AP has not gone international when they sound better as claimed. the beauty of Swara is in the finish, but is the cost justified between beauty and performance.

I have heard their DAC side by side with a very acclaimed DAC 'Shigaraki' and found that both excel in their own areas. Shigaraki excelled in bringing out the subtlest of nuances of the music whereas AP's mid range was so fluid that you feel you are tasting an exquisite swiss chocolate.

Could you elaborate which all DACs you have compared them with?