Planning to buy Accuphase E-480

[essrand]

Accuphase E-480 retails for 605000yen in Japan = 4.08L INR. See link below.

Accuphase アキュフェーズ E-480 プリメイン・アンプ 販売価格はお問い合わせください。 オーディオ専門店 サウンドハイツ

180W/ch INTEGRATED STEREO AMPLIFIERE-480

www.soundheights.jp

Say you put 30% markup (customs/shipping/GST) on this, 5.5L should be a reasonable price for this amp. It would be a pipe-dream to imagine a price lesser than this for this amp, anywhere in the world (except Japan of course).

For this price you can get (in India), the Luxman 38 series tube amp and pre combo. Which will probably outperform the Accuphase depending on your wattage needs.

Accuphase is stupidly priced because the US distributor marks it way up, and Indian dealers ape that, and think they can get away with that as well, but they can't. Even in the USA the street price is 20-30% off MSRP because of the inflated markup.

Luxman is a good alternative at this price point, usually 15-20% lower priced. I can't think of any other brand that is not Chi-fi to compete at this level at this price IMO of course. Not that I know much about SS amps been mostly a tube guy. Accuphase is the only SS I have liked (other than Technical Brain which is beyond my pay grade).

 

[bloredude]

Accuphase product line suffers the same problem in the US market and the dealers receive tons of flak for the same. Unfortunately, there is no way to change this practice, neither in the US nor in India.

 

[AKT]

Denon PMA2500NE may not be compared with E-480 but it is comparable with Accuphase E-2x0 amps and Luxman L505. Current generation Accuphase amps are somehow bit bright sounding. But their older amps are nice sounding ones.

Last year I auditioned a Denon PMA2500NE and an Accuphase E260 for over a month. I loved the butch looks of Denon and it's sheer over-engineered weight. In my opinion, Denon had more grunt but sounded a little busy with complex music like a symphony. Accuphase on the other hand appeared more velvety and overall better composed but I missed just a tad bit bass in comparison.
Denon obviously had a much better price to perf ratio.

 

[AKT]

Accuphase E-480 retails for 605000yen in Japan = 4.08L INR. See link below.

Accuphase アキュフェーズ E-480 プリメイン・アンプ 販売価格はお問い合わせください。 オーディオ専門店 サウンドハイツ

180W/ch INTEGRATED STEREO AMPLIFIERE-480

www.soundheights.jp

Say you put 30% markup (customs/shipping/GST) on this, 5.5L should be a reasonable price for this amp. It would be a pipe-dream to imagine a price lesser than this for this amp, anywhere in the world (except Japan of course).

For this price you can get (in India), the Luxman 38 series tube amp and pre combo. Which will probably outperform the Accuphase depending on your wattage needs.

Accuphase is stupidly priced because the US distributor marks it way up, and Indian dealers ape that, and think they can get away with that as well, but they can't. Even in the USA the street price is 20-30% off MSRP because of the inflated markup.

Luxman is a good alternative at this price point, usually 15-20% lower priced. I can't think of any other brand that is not Chi-fi to compete at this level at this price IMO of course. Not that I know much about SS amps been mostly a tube guy. Accuphase is the only SS I have liked (other than Technical Brain which is beyond my pay grade).

This calculation unfortunately may not apply to Accuphase. Those guys know it and therefore never allow their dealers to service an out of country amplifier. Accuphase is indeed stupidly priced in rest of the world (with the exception of Singapore I guess)

Even though this comes up very often, I feel Luxman comparison with Accuphase is not a close one. Both of them have very diff sound signatures which appeal to very diff audience. The famous 'Accuphase house sound' needs to be heard to be appreciated (or disregarded).

 

[RajithKumar]

This calculation unfortunately may not apply to Accuphase. Those guys know it and therefore never allow their dealers to service an out of country amplifier. Accuphase is indeed stupidly priced in rest of the world (with the exception of Singapore I guess)

Even though this comes up very often, I feel Luxman comparison with Accuphase is not a close one. Both of them have very diff sound signatures which appeal to very diff audience. The famous 'Accuphase house sound' needs to be heard to be appreciated (or disregarded).

I'm also in the same opinion , apart from pricing factor ,Accuphase sound wins for me. I have heard Luxman Class AB amps ,it was good but not good as Accuphase .
Have heard Accuphase Class A amp too ,and that was on next level .

 

[RajithKumar]

This calculation unfortunately may not apply to Accuphase. Those guys know it and therefore never allow their dealers to service an out of country amplifier. Accuphase is indeed stupidly priced in rest of the world (with the exception of Singapore I guess)

Even though this comes up very often, I feel Luxman comparison with Accuphase is not a close one. Both of them have very diff sound signatures which appeal to very diff audience. The famous 'Accuphase house sound' needs to be heard to be appreciated (or disregarded).

I'm also in the same opinion , apart from pricing factor ,Accuphase sound wins for me. I have heard Luxman Class AB amps ,it was good but not good as Accuphase .
Have heard Accuphase Class A amp too ,and that was on next level .

Denon PMA2500NE may not be compared with E-480 but it is comparable with Accuphase E-2x0 amps and Luxman L505. Current generation Accuphase amps are somehow bit bright sounding. But their older amps are nice sounding ones.

For me the new Accuphase was not brighter ,but cleaner on the upper and lower regions and bit warmer on the midrange.YMMV.

 

[bloredude]

This calculation unfortunately may not apply to Accuphase. Those guys know it and therefore never allow their dealers to service an out of country amplifier. Accuphase is indeed stupidly priced in rest of the world (with the exception of Singapore I guess)

Even though this comes up very often, I feel Luxman comparison with Accuphase is not a close one. Both of them have very diff sound signatures which appeal to very diff audience. The famous 'Accuphase house sound' needs to be heard to be appreciated (or disregarded).

Agree.

I feel "xxx Accuphase sells only for yyy Yen in Japan" is not a valid argument. Should the rest of the world complain why Indians can get a Saadhna for much cheaper than they need to shell out in the rest of the world? Good quality ebikes start at about 2000-2500 RMB in China, retail price. Is that the case elsewhere? I feel there is a massive difference between the prices in Chinese markets and other markets.

Any product's price should be compared to a nominal international price. Since Accuphase doesn't decide region-wise price (distributors do) they have little control over the pricing in individual regions.

Also, these days Accuphase firmly falls in the "luxury" category, despite a glorious history of strong pure audiophile credentials. And when we talk luxury, we don't apply the same "value principals" as we do with other things. Do we question the price of a LV bag? Boss perfume? Bentley car? If anything, I believe the premium dealers put on Accuphase products is very modest by the current luxury market trends. In their minds, "any one looking to buy an Accuphase is a person who doesn't ask for the price or bargain, he just buys".

I feel this is where the difference lies. In audiophilia, on the contrary to what dealers expect, there is a large crowd of value-conscious consumer. That includes those eying an Accuphase too.

 

[essrand]

Agree.

I feel "xxx Accuphase sells only for yyy Yen in Japan" is not a valid argument. Should the rest of the world complain why Indians can get a Saadhna for much cheaper than they need to shell out in the rest of the world? Good quality ebikes start at about 2000-2500 RMB in China, retail price. Is that the case elsewhere? I feel there is a massive difference between the prices in Chinese markets and other markets.

Any product's price should be compared to a nominal international price. Since Accuphase doesn't decide region-wise price (distributors do) they have little control over the pricing in individual regions.

Also, these days Accuphase firmly falls in the "luxury" category, despite a glorious history of strong pure audiophile credentials. And when we talk luxury, we don't apply the same "value principals" as we do with other things. Do we question the price of a LV bag? Boss perfume? Bentley car? If anything, I believe the premium dealers put on Accuphase products is very modest by the current luxury market trends. In their minds, "any one looking to buy an Accuphase is a person who doesn't ask for the price or bargain, he just buys".

I feel this is where the difference lies. In audiophilia, on the contrary to what dealers expect, there is a large crowd of value-conscious consumer. That includes those eying an Accuphase too.

Not sure if I agree with this. I am not saying it should cost the same, 30% is fine, even 50%, but 2x the price or more is unreasonable. It only appeals to people who think the more something costs the better it will sound. The rest of us know better. So if a dealer is baiting "bakras", it's quite sad, Accuphase might not reach the true audiophile or music lover.

I do question the price of LV bag, Bentley etc, they are just showoff items especially in India. I am also a guy who would buy an Accuphase but will ask for the price and bargain. There are many kinds of people.

If Accuphase in the USA is posing as a jewellery item whose price cannot be questioned rather than a musical device it is sad. Cause that is not the brand ethos of Accuphase if you read up on it, there's a nice blog of a writer doing a factory tour. It's just a greedy distributor ruining it for the rest of us, and creating a bad name for the industry in general, it's darker side of consumerism/capitalism and the audio industry.

 

[powerslave]

I see folks have taken some of the criticism around pricing personally when none was intended, certainly raising a strawman is no way to argue or make a point.



Accuphase product is an object and its attributes including price can be quantified and measured. Ignoring the exaggerations and tangential comparisons with LV and what not; the fact is its markup in India is significantly higher relative to the other equipment manufactured and exported from Japan in the same price range and the same category of goods. This is not an opinion but a fact.


Drawing an analogy to Sadhanas does not even make sense; nominal per capita income of India in USD is 1600, Japan is 22K and the USA it's > 30 K. Folks at Rethm are adjusting the pricing based on a much fairer parameters AKA cost of living and nominal per capita income , marketing costs in that region and most importantly how comparative products from the competition are priced, Rethm's counterparts are Cube audio and Voxativ or Lowther derivatives so when you factor their pricing in the USA, Rethms are super economical. Then when you adjust the kind of after-sales provided by USA dealerships vis a vis India one is looking at a more complete picture.

No one is bashing Accuphase as an entity here; people are simply pointing out FACTs around its pricing in a specific market, this has little to do with how good or not so good it sounds.

 

[terrible]

What speakers do you own, terrible?

I am looking for new speakers. I am set on 804 D3 for now.

 

[insane79]

I think this post has been more than fruitful for me. Thank you everyone. It definitely opened up many other choices, but also exposed the distributor as someone not to be relied on for fair pricing. He has quoted highly disparate price to me from what he has quoted to others, within a gap of weeks and sometime days. To top that of, I even had some guy call me up as a stockist (don't know how he accessed my number) and quote me 8.7 lakhs for e-480 and when I declined his offer he said I am not committed to the post I made here and I should buy a Denon . It's pretty creepy, have blocked him. I will probably opt for a MC8900 or Puccini. But first I am going to audition 804 D3 tomorrow.

hmmn, i think i know who u are talking about, if you are uncomfortable just avoid these guys. 804 D3 are sweet but also check the 702 s2 if they are available for audition.

Cheers.

 

[Gerry_the_Merry]

Accuphase holds its value quite well. I recently saw deals between very experienced forum members for 12 year old pieces at 75% of the original new INR price 12 years back, and a bunch of other deals earlier. For e480, 5.5 lakhs means...these guys would have pounced on it in a moment rather than spend on 12 year old models...they are pretty savvy. 5.5 looks highly unlikely. If there is better stuff at that price this would not and should not sell. Trust market forces.

 

[bloredude]

Not sure if I agree with this. I am not saying it should cost the same, 30% is fine, even 50%, but 2x the price or more is unreasonable. It only appeals to people who think the more something costs the better it will sound. The rest of us know better. So if a dealer is baiting "bakras", it's quite sad, Accuphase might not reach the true audiophile or music lover.

I do question the price of LV bag, Bentley etc, they are just showoff items especially in India. I am also a guy who would buy an Accuphase but will ask for the price and bargain. There are many kinds of people.

If Accuphase in the USA is posing as a jewellery item whose price cannot be questioned rather than a musical device it is sad. Cause that is not the brand ethos of Accuphase if you read up on it, there's a nice blog of a writer doing a factory tour. It's just a greedy distributor ruining it for the rest of us, and creating a bad name for the industry in general, it's darker side of consumerism/capitalism and the audio industry.

Mine and your post are saying 80% the same thing in a different way. "Some" people do question the price of LV bag and Bentley car. Has that prevented LV from pricing them like that? Has that prevented people from buying them? No, on the contrary, LV just keeps on growing. Everyone buying LV knows what is the "BOM" of an LV bag vs what their card will be charged. But that's not the point of argument for their customer base. Their customers pay for the unknown.

Fortunately, the customers of Accuphase/Bentley are not ripped off in the same way. They at least get the very best quality of a product that exists.

When I am talking about the "dealers' pshyche" I am not endorsing it. I am just explaining how the market forces work. Explaining something is not same as endorsing it.

I would be very happy if Accuphase becomes available in India at Japan prices. May be Indian audiophile taste can reach the level of Viet/Thai level if not Japan/China level.

 

[panditji]

The retail price of Accuphase and for that matter almost all hifi contains atleast 50% profit margin for the distributor and dealer.. While Accuphase Japan has no distributor and is most probably company to retailers, the distributors worldwide pay distributor prices and the customs/taxes are charged on distributor prices and not the retail prices.. Looking at the cost of living in Japan and India, the Indian distributor will always have a much lower cost of doing business than his Japanese counterpart vis a vis EVERYTHING... So while they have all the rights to charge whatever prices they want, they do not have the rights to WHINE that the Indian consumer is not buying at their high prices... It is their right to charge whatever they feel like and the consumers right to buy from wherever they feel like...

 

[bloredude]

Accuphase product is an object and its attributes including price can be quantified and measured. Ignoring the exaggerations and tangential comparisons with LV and what not; the fact is its markup in India is significantly higher relative to the other equipment manufactured and exported from Japan in the same price range and the same category of goods. This is not an opinion but a fact.

No, not a fact. Someone comparing say a Luxman with an Accuphase and claiming one sounds same as the other, better than the other, represents better value than the other is loose talk. Judgemental and self-serving. Let's bash brand A because I can't afford it. Just that nothing more.

Drawing an analogy to Sadhanas does not even make sense; nominal per capita income of India in USD is 1600, Japan is 22K and the USA it's > 30 K.

Oh yes, it is. Does someone offering a cheaper price for domestic consumer do it to account for per capita income. This has to be a bad joke. Why are Sadhnas not being offered to poor Indians at Rs 50 thousand, middle class Indians for Rs. 2 lacs, Industrialists at Rs 20 lacs and film-stars and cricketers at Rs 1 crore?

No one is bashing Accuphase as an entity here; people are simply pointing out FACTs around its pricing in a specific market, this has little to do with how good or not so good it sounds.

There are several posts here that are taking their negativity caused by the dealers' ineptitude to the brand and venting it on the brand and even extending it to the sound.

I think you need to speak for yourself rather than everyone. And if you do feel the urge to speak on behalf of everyone at least read the thread better.

 

[bloredude]

The retail price of Accuphase and for that matter almost all hifi contains atleast 50% profit margin for the distributor and dealer.. While Accuphase Japan has no distributor and is most probably company to retailers, the distributors worldwide pay distributor prices and the customs/taxes are charged on distributor prices and not the retail prices.. Looking at the cost of living in Japan and India, the Indian distributor will always have a much lower cost of doing business than his Japanese counterpart vis a vis EVERYTHING... So while they have all the rights to charge whatever prices they want, they do not have the rights to WHINE that the Indian consumer is not buying at their high prices... It is their right to charge whatever they feel like and the consumers right to buy from wherever they feel like...

Absolutely. Consumers have the right to demand a fair price, dealers have the right to decide a profit margin that they think works for their consumer base. How much profit do they make on mainstream gear? Dali Zensor speakers? Marantz PM 6005 amplifiers? Should they invest crores in their business to earn less than 10% per annum on their investment?

While consumers have the right to demand a fair price, they also need to account for dealers' side of the story. Those super critical of Indian dealers should some time try to be in their shoes and see how they struggle to survive in the business while still making profit.

I don't endorse ridiculous prices of Accuphase or any other. But taking that negativity to the SQ, taking that negativity to the brand name is not the right thing to do.

 

[panditji]

I have yet to come across any audio retailer or distributor who is struggling. Almost everyone I know of has a BMW or a 20 lakh+ car that they are driving... I also run a business importing hi end advertising signages and materials from China and across the world and none of my clients have ever bothered to check if I am struggling or not or the fact that I still drive a used Toyota Altis since the last 7 years...

I don't think it's the consumer's problem to take care of the distributors and their business just like nobody cares for mine.. If the business is not lucrative enough, we all have the option to leave and start something else or get a job.. If you are unable to sell high end products to a customer base of approx. 200 million then its the product or your business skill which is the problem and not the consumer...

IMHO it is the brand's problem if some distributors are bringing it a bad name in terms of bad service, ridiculous pricing or a bad product... The distributor is simply a middleman for the brand.. People base their purchases basis the brand and not the distributor.. So if Accuphase does not bother then I have a problem however gorgeous those bloody VU meters and the champagne gold finish of their amps...

 

[essrand]

Absolutely. Consumers have the right to demand a fair price, dealers have the right to decide a profit margin that they think works for their consumer base. How much profit do they make on mainstream gear? Dali Zensor speakers? Marantz PM 6005 amplifiers? Should they invest crores in their business to earn less than 10% per annum on their investment?

While consumers have the right to demand a fair price, they also need to account for dealers' side of the story. Those super critical of Indian dealers should some time try to be in their shoes and see how they struggle to survive in the business while still making profit.

I don't endorse ridiculous prices of Accuphase or any other. But taking that negativity to the SQ, taking that negativity to the brand name is not the right thing to do.

Every dealer needs to make money, but cornering a brand with high prices and making it inaccessible to general populace not because it cost so much but just because you got the exclusive dealership, is not cool and runs counter to market practises. I want to buy Air Tight, I can't. Accuphase, similar story. Luxman, not so much, it is accessible cause the dealer is a reasonable guy, and we can all enjoy Luxman without having to starting looking for international contacts, importing it and dealing with custom duty headaches, carrying it when we travel abroad etc etc. Why put us consumers through that, kills the audiophile market before it can even take off.

The negativity to SQ is taken to Accuphase only because of high price. If you sell a Volkswagen at 2X the international price, and it cannot compete with BMW, Mercedes etc. Volkswagen WILL be disparaged. Think the same applies to Accuphase, perhaps. Not because I am jealous and don't have the coin, but because at that price there's probably better gear available.

E-800 sells for 25K$ MSRP, 25k$!! You can get Technical Brain, Engstrom, DAG and some really boutique rarefied brands at that price. And if Accuphase doesn't sound as good as those. It will be disparaged.

On Audioshark there's a guy who bought E-800 when it first came out and was hyped like crazy by the USA dealer. He's so pissed, it was not worth the money SQ wise. He moved on to Luxman M900u/C900u combo, within two months, around the same price. It's a completely different league in his opinion, and the general opinion of the audiophile world.

 

[panditji]

While consumers have the right to demand a fair price, they also need to account for dealers' side of the story. Those super critical of Indian dealers should some time try to be in their shoes and see how they struggle to survive in the business while still making profit.

Also the distributors should also try and step into the shoes of the consumer and see how they struggle to sell their kidney just to buy the E-800 in India while still struggling to stay alive and live with one kidney.. I doubt if any distributor or retailer has ever thought about how the poor consumer will be able to afford the amplifier they sell... It can't be a one way street my friend..

 

[jenson]

folks buying amps worth inr 5 lakhs or more can't be in poor category imho