panditji
Well-Known Member
Folks selling amps worth INR 5 Lakhs or more can't be in in poor category as well IMHO...
Planning to buy Accuphase E-480
- Thread starter terrible
- Start date
Luxman is also not cheap here. During my visit to Shanghai in 2019 found there it is almost 35% cheaper than India.
Many AV products are available here more or less equal to the international price (brands like Marantz, Yamaha, Spendor, Kef etc.). Even I bought my Focal Aria 926 in 2014 from authorized Indian dealer for a price of 10% cheaper than the online price in UK on that day. When we need only a particular brand then many times it is draining our pockets.
No need to say about what services we are getting here for a 10L product like gears for home demo, after sale services etc... and all we know about it.
Dear Panditji, we are a socialist society. Your concerns regarding "poor" consumers are very well noted
Hope dealers would note and pay heed too!Totally agree. Dealers should be able to lower their greed a bit.
I disagree. Before Hifimart started selling Luxman, Luxman was exorbitantly priced too. I have checked prices with India distributor as late as 2-3 years ago.
Importing Luxman is still cheaper than buying it in India, despite HiFiMart's tremendous efforts. I have imported Luxman and it cost me much cheaper than I was asked to shell out by any one in Indian market.
Disagree. Dealers' greed can't be linked to SQ of gear.
Conversely, I will not buy a bad sounding gear just because it is available much cheaper locally than abroad.
Try selling a "boutique" amp after a year or two of ownership vs an Accuphase. The difference will become clear. That isn't even accounting for people who have moved from more expensive boutique gear to Accuphase.
Who defines "good" sound? Who certifies one person's liking to be the gold standard of "good" sound? Every gear will have some people who will like its sound, and others that won't. If there was an equipment or brand whose product everyone liked, all other brand will have to shut shop, isn't it?
Just because one person doesn't like the sound from one gear doesn't mean it's not good. It only means he didn't like it. If the product was bad, it won't sell. That would truly define whether the product is a success story or a failure. One person bad mouthing a product doesn't make it bad.
The guy bought a top of the line Accuphase without a demo? In the market he bought it blind where demos/home demos are not unheard of tells a lot about his intent.
Anyway, there are similar stories to the contrary as well. I take those stories with heaps of salt.
powerslave
Active Member
Dil pe le liya hai ; theek hai .
The OP and some of us here were strictly talking about pricing, some folks intercepted a flying arrow and have gone off on a tangent.
The OP and some of us here were strictly talking about pricing, some folks intercepted a flying arrow and have gone off on a tangent.
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Gerry_the_Merry
Well-Known Member
I don't understand this wailing about one brand. If the price to value equation is not favourable look for some other stuff. If Accuphase doesn't serve up the quality at its price point it won't sell anyway. But if it selling all the same and one keeps complaining, then maybe it is a case of price to value equation being misread.
Globalization, internet, ease of shipment & acceptance of 40% customs among poor audiophiles have left little room for distributors to hide what we may perceive as their greed. Therefore as many have suggested, distributors in India are better off attracting customers who are not necessarily on audio forums... Just the plain rich. Audio forum guys are any ways a small majority in the bigger scheme of things... So discussions around greed doesn't really have an impact.
Absolutely not. Saw it in some documentary, street food vendors in Asia incorporate prawns in their dishes so they can jack up the price which gives them better profit that same dish in chicken...i lost track on how for connect the analogy here
I was about to slit my wrists and then I saw this.My apologies to "terrible ji". He may not have bargained for so much
Actually, the problem is not the price. It is a different price for different customers, that's unpalatable.
Where are the Measurement Pandits?
Someone should measure Accuphase E480 fully and Show us that (as far as measurements are concerned) it's no different or better than Class D amps costing under 500USD. Still better, if some unwanted coloration, Wrong THD numbers or improper LR bias is demonstrated.. So Our Flat Earth (oops, Flat Frequency Response) Society can rip the brand for illogical pricing for A Poorly Engineered product.
Where are the measurement Pandits when you need them most? So all of us who can't afford it can have peace!!
Jokes Apart, nobody is forcing us to buy, so we can safely ignore it, and buy VFM product in that price range. Wait, how can there be a truly VFM product in that inflated price range? Ok Comparatively VFM I mean. Because, There hasn't been a huge or breakthrough technological advancement in AB Amplifier design and execution in Last few decades AFAIK. Most of the new tech research is in DAC/DRC etc or in attempts to make digital audio sound less digital.
Otherwise wait for the right deal, when Distributor is Forced to Sell at cost price or minimum margins during clearance etc. Many times distributors are under pressure to clear the inventory Or during some well maintained pre-owned options.
Remember in Audiophile Purchases, You make profit While buying, not while selling. So buy it at the best price as far as possible.
Someone should measure Accuphase E480 fully and Show us that (as far as measurements are concerned) it's no different or better than Class D amps costing under 500USD. Still better, if some unwanted coloration, Wrong THD numbers or improper LR bias is demonstrated.. So Our Flat Earth (oops, Flat Frequency Response) Society can rip the brand for illogical pricing for A Poorly Engineered product.
Where are the measurement Pandits when you need them most? So all of us who can't afford it can have peace!!
Jokes Apart, nobody is forcing us to buy, so we can safely ignore it, and buy VFM product in that price range. Wait, how can there be a truly VFM product in that inflated price range? Ok Comparatively VFM I mean. Because, There hasn't been a huge or breakthrough technological advancement in AB Amplifier design and execution in Last few decades AFAIK. Most of the new tech research is in DAC/DRC etc or in attempts to make digital audio sound less digital.
Otherwise wait for the right deal, when Distributor is Forced to Sell at cost price or minimum margins during clearance etc. Many times distributors are under pressure to clear the inventory Or during some well maintained pre-owned options.
Remember in Audiophile Purchases, You make profit While buying, not while selling. So buy it at the best price as far as possible.
COOLDUDE7808
Active Member
This is not only about Accuphase as such . Let us assume We see a Budget CD player of brand X for 500USD and the price in India is above 1 Lakh I will wonder if it fits in the price to performance ratio compared to its peer brands . Am I paying 2X or 3X the price only because of customs duty and taxes ? or is that because of high dealer margin . Will this kind of money result in a better quality product or are there other options available?
Price - especially in country of origin or mfg gives you an idea of what the product is really worth and similar priced models will give you an idea as to what to compare with i.e what are the other options available
When you have Luxman , Macintosh , Krell and many other high end brands people will compare and what makes it very obvious in case of Accuphase is that even their lower level models are priced exorbitantly compared to their peers outside Japan . This kind of pricing can be justified only if one insists that Accuphase as a brand does not have any peers and should not or cannot be compared to any brand .- because everything is subjective right from price to SQ and everybody has a choice to buy or not
Price - especially in country of origin or mfg gives you an idea of what the product is really worth and similar priced models will give you an idea as to what to compare with i.e what are the other options available
When you have Luxman , Macintosh , Krell and many other high end brands people will compare and what makes it very obvious in case of Accuphase is that even their lower level models are priced exorbitantly compared to their peers outside Japan . This kind of pricing can be justified only if one insists that Accuphase as a brand does not have any peers and should not or cannot be compared to any brand .- because everything is subjective right from price to SQ and everybody has a choice to buy or not
Lizard King
Well-Known Member
Is there any place where we can listen to this amplifier, so that mere mortals like us know what we are missing/ cannot afford
I second that. Especially Marantz, our local prices are at par if not lower than the international prices.
COOLDUDE7808
Active Member
Maybe Next What HIFI exhibition after Covid is over .Is there any place where we can listen to this amplifier, so that mere mortals like us know what we are missing/ cannot afford
I had looked at the Accuphase and Luxman options last year. The list prices for the class AB amps were similar. For Luxman, there was a flat 30% discount on Hifimart. For Accuphase, something similar could be negotiated was my sense but not as transparent an experience. In the end I bought a used Accuphase instead. To me this perception that one brand has fair pricing but the other doesnt seems a bit strange. To me, both were overpriced. I started in this hobby around 2008 so find most brands overpriced these days.
There are other brands which have close to international pricing in India than Accuphase. At new pricing, Accuphase didnt make sense to me. At that price, no amp did. But the choice between a used Accuphase and a new Denon/Marantz was not easy to make. I've heard Accuphase amps over the years so was familiar with the sound. Unfortunately a demo for the top end Marantz/Denon amps wasn't possible in Bangalore (ProfFX didnt have stock despite being the Denon distributor). The options also seemed a little underpowered (90w). The fact that the Accuphase was coming from someone known was a big positive and swung the decision. I wouldnt really consider other amps of that age (~10 years). Even other Japanese amps dont last as long as Accuphase (I had a Yamaha A-S2000 which became irreparable at 10 years).
One additional issue that came up in this thread. What qualifies as a Japanese brand? To me its made in Japan + owned by a Japanese company. By my logic, Luxman is not a Japanese brand (owned by IAG, a Chinese company). Neither are Denon / Marantz (owned by an American company). .
There are other brands which have close to international pricing in India than Accuphase. At new pricing, Accuphase didnt make sense to me. At that price, no amp did. But the choice between a used Accuphase and a new Denon/Marantz was not easy to make. I've heard Accuphase amps over the years so was familiar with the sound. Unfortunately a demo for the top end Marantz/Denon amps wasn't possible in Bangalore (ProfFX didnt have stock despite being the Denon distributor). The options also seemed a little underpowered (90w). The fact that the Accuphase was coming from someone known was a big positive and swung the decision. I wouldnt really consider other amps of that age (~10 years). Even other Japanese amps dont last as long as Accuphase (I had a Yamaha A-S2000 which became irreparable at 10 years).
One additional issue that came up in this thread. What qualifies as a Japanese brand? To me its made in Japan + owned by a Japanese company. By my logic, Luxman is not a Japanese brand (owned by IAG, a Chinese company). Neither are Denon / Marantz (owned by an American company). .
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