Problem with the XTZ 12.17 Edge

[MaSh]

Turning up the sub trim to zero db in the avr helps a bit but i dont want the sub to be running that hot.
I usually keep it at -5 and 50% (or 45%) gain on the sub. The bass at this volume is plenty but the thump and punch is absent.

Are you setting up the Sub manually? Are you using an SPL meter or an app on the phone? What was the original setting set by your receiver's auto setup?

-5db on the receiver sub-level is Okay. Increase the volume on the Sub till Audyssey sets the least amount of gain for the Sub. If you can get it down to -11db, you are golden. The aim is to send Ungained signal to the Sub and allow the Sub's Amp to do all the amping with no gain coming from the receiver. Make sure the gain is Not -12, -11.5 is perfectly fine.

MaSh

 

[Love4sound]

Subwoofer volume has to be set properly..
For example using 100 watts of 12.17 won't over power in a room.

So you are telling me I didn’t set the volume of edge properly? I kept it at minimum. You will loose a lot of bass if u keep low volume. The only way to over come it is to go duals. It’s just a proven fact that big powerful subs are not meant for small rooms. If you still want to convince me better give up . Let’s not deviate from the OP

 

[Love4sound]

Are you setting up the Sub manually? Are you using an SPL meter or an app on the phone? What was the original setting set by your receiver's auto setup?

-5db on the receiver sub-level is Okay. Increase the volume on the Sub till Audyssey sets the least amount of gain for the Sub. If you can get it down to -11db, you are golden. The aim is to send Ungained signal to the Sub and allow the Sub's Amp to do all the amping with no gain coming from the receiver. Make sure the gain is Not -12, -11.5 is perfectly fine.

MaSh

In 2400 I was able to achieve this as audyssey let’s u keep the sub volume at any level. But in 4500 the audyssey32 does not proceed until you get the sub to -75db or am I doing something wrong here ?

 

[Nitin K]

So you are telling me I didn’t set the volume of edge properly? I kept it at minimum. You will loose a lot of bass if u keep low volume. The only way to over come it is to go duals. It’s just a proven fact that big powerful subs are not meant for small rooms. If you still want to convince me better give up . Let’s not deviate from the OP

Very true Love4sound, big powerful subs are not meant for small rooms. Dual small Subwoofers are the way to go if the room size permits.

 

[elangoas]

So its definitely the placement issue and the room issue.

So this all has lead me to believe the room is a issue here.

May be both the room & placement of sub & your listening position all contribute.. It could be hard to re-position a single sub in your living room, where there are more openings to other rooms and get a better feel of bass in your listening position..

my dedicated room is still a few months away

Since it is a dedicated room, you should have flexibility in positioning the subs.. That would help to large extent to reduce the boominess..

 

[Love4sound]

Very true Love4sound, big powerful subs are not meant for small rooms. Dual small Subwoofers are the way to go if the room size permits.

The 10.17 edge was to loud in my room I even tried keeping the sub volume in avr at -12db and the sub volume knob just a point from minimum. The bass was overwhelming. The standard 12.17 was just awesome. I assumed the 10.17 will also be same cause both use the same amp and have the same specs. I also had dual in mind so went for the 10.17. But in a medium sized dedicated room a dual xtz edge will rock for sure. The power and depth in bass is just amazing. The standard versions aren’t far behind though. Like Prateek said you can very well get a big, powerful sub and keep the volume low but if u lower it to cut the boomy bass, definitely you will miss the mild background bass at certain scenes.

 

[Nitin K]

The 10.17 edge was to loud in my room I even tried keeping the sub volume in avr at -12db and the sub volume knob just a point from minimum. The bass was overwhelming. The standard 12.17 was just awesome. I assumed the 10.17 will also be same cause both use the same amp and have the same specs. I also had dual in mind so went for the 10.17. But in a medium sized dedicated room a dual xtz edge will rock for sure. The power and depth in bass is just amazing. The standard versions aren’t far behind though. Like Prateek said you can very well get a big, powerful sub and keep the volume low but if u lower it to cut the boomy bass, definitely you will miss the mild background bass at certain scenes.

Keeping the volume low of a big powerful sub defeats its own purpose & there will be less bass by underutilising its power. There would be a radical difference in volume & SPL how a small & a big powerful subwoofer would output sound in a small room with the volume gradually increasing.
Subwoofer manufacturers have made subwoofers of different sizes & output for a reason to fill rooms of varying sizes accordingly.
In the SVS forum too ED Mullen, Director of technology & customer service of SVS never recommends big subs for small rooms whenever a prospective customer enquires with him with options between a small & big subwoofer vis-a-vis room size. He always recommends a small sub or 2 dual small subs for small to medium rooms.

 

[Love4sound]

Keeping the volume low of a big powerful sub defeats its own purpose & there will be less bass by underutilising its power. I am sure subwoofer manufacturers have made subwoofers of different sizes & output to fill rooms of varying sizes accordingly.
In the SVS forum too ED Mullen, Director of technology & customer service of SVS never recommends big subs for small rooms whenever a prospective customer enquires with him with options between a small & big subwoofer vis-a-vis room size. He always recommends a small sub or 2 dual small subs for small to medium rooms.

Yeah true but 12 inch is fine but 700 wats rms is way to much. A 10-12 inch sub with 150-250 watts rms is fine for small rooms[/QUOTE]

 

[Nitin K]

Yeah true but 12 inch is fine but 700 wats rms is way to much. A 10-12 inch sub with 150-250 watts rms is fine for small rooms

[/QUOTE]

Absolutely true, even for my room which is 14 feet L X 11 width & height, the 500 W RMS, 12 inch subwoofer is more than enough at just 50% volume, infact too powerful for the room. Ideally a PB 1000 or SB 2000(sealed) is adequate but I am actually enjoying its power.

 

[JayaRaa]

No, its still there. But there is no problem with the power supply or power line. The electrician visited twice and he couldnt figure out any problem and he is not a newbie as well. So i will just add a stabilizer now.

I see. So you are no more concerned about getting shock?

 

[Love4sound]

I see. So you are no more concerned about getting shock?

He is already in shock

 

[Tuhin Lavania]

I see. So you are no more concerned about getting shock?

Actually, i was more concerned with the current damaging the equipments, not the shock. Coz nobody is putting hands back there. And i really dont think now it can damage, looking to buy a stabilizer in some time.

 

[Tuhin Lavania]

Are you setting up the Sub manually? Are you using an SPL meter or an app on the phone? What was the original setting set by your receiver's auto setup?

-5db on the receiver sub-level is Okay. Increase the volume on the Sub till Audyssey sets the least amount of gain for the Sub. If you can get it down to -11db, you are golden. The aim is to send Ungained signal to the Sub and allow the Sub's Amp to do all the amping with no gain coming from the receiver. Make sure the gain is Not -12, -11.5 is perfectly fine.

MaSh

I have the spl meter app on the phone, but frankly, i cant move around much coz..the room haha..its a small room which opens to the whole house.
Did Audyssey, and i think the sub trim on the avr was -7, bumped it to -5 and i think its good for now. I also increased it to zero and it sounded much better but then i decreased it coz i dont want to run that hot.
Changed the seating position and i found one particular position which sounds the best and that is in the extreme corner of the room. I dont think -11 will do the job as i remember the sub had almost no output then, maybe increasing the gain ( to 3'o clock ) might do the job with -11 on the avr

 

[Nitin K]

Hi Tuhin, pls don't worry. You got yourself a good subwoofer. After you shift your home theater to your new room, re-calibrate & see. Mostly it should work & is a room / placement issue.
You can either seek any FM's help in your area to set it up or ask the XTZ dealer to help out.

 

[liverpool_for_life]

Keeping the volume low of a big powerful sub defeats its own purpose & there will be less bass by underutilising its power.

I'll assume that you are referring to the gain adjustment (which admittedly impacts volume) when you say "low volume". Keeping the gain low whilst still obtaining the required SPL doesn't result in less bass. And, one man's "underutilization" is another man's headroom.

 

[Nitin K]

I'll assume that you are referring to the gain adjustment (which admittedly impacts volume) when you say "low volume". Keeping the gain low whilst still obtaining the required SPL doesn't result in less bass. And, one man's "underutilization" is another man's headroom.

True , would totally agree with you on that ,I meant gain adjustment. More headroom is always welcome. But a big sub for a small room would be overwhelming. Better to have a smaller sub & enjoy at the right volume.

 

[liverpool_for_life]

But a big sub for a small room would be overwhelming.

Why? If both subs can be calibrated to the same SPL levels, I'd wager that the bigger sub will sound better (because of the extra headroom).

Better to have a smaller sub & enjoy at the right volume.

Again, SPL levels can be manipulated to one's liking by using the sub's gain adjustment. If the "right volume" is possible with a smaller sub, it will be possible with a bigger sub too.

 

[Love4sound]

He means to say not only size but power as well. Generally big subs will be more powerful. For example I tried the xtz edge 10.17. It was loud,boomy and the 700 watts RMS was just not right for my room and my speakers. But the 12.17 standard version was awesome it has a 500 watts rms amp. It blended will with my room and speakers. Having dual in mind I went for the 10.17

 

[Nitin K]

Why? If both subs can be calibrated to the same SPL levels, I'd wager that the bigger sub will sound better (because of the extra headroom).



Again, SPL levels can be manipulated to one's liking by using the sub's gain adjustment. If the "right volume" is possible with a smaller sub, it will be possible with a bigger sub too.

The spl levels of the big subs can be set to a lower level no doubt. I do agree that more headroom is always welcome whether small or big subwoofer. But I am sure subwoofer manufacturers would have manufactured subs of different sizes & power for different room sizes & purposes. From my experience whether it is a receiver or a subwoofer, a low powered vs a high powered equipment , the sound emitted at a specific volume level would be different between the two. Between my previous Definitive Prosub 300 watts, 10 inch & SVS subwoofer 500 watts, 12 inch which is comparatively huge, the difference is day & night at the same volume level.
To each his own.

 

[liverpool_for_life]

But I am sure subwoofer manufacturers would have manufactured subs of different sizes & power for different room sizes & purposes.

I don't disagree with this at all.

Where I do disagree is that you cannot make a big sub work in a small room because it will overwhelm the room. All else being equal (for simplicity sake, consider two subs from the same manufacturer which have identical characteristics other than driver size, same position in the room and average levels having been calibrated across the same frequencies), the bigger sub will put out the the same amount of acoustical energy in the room as the smaller sub as long as the measured SPL from both is the same. And, it is this acoustical energy and how it decays in the room that defines boominess (or lack thereof).

From my experience whether it is a receiver or a subwoofer, a low powered vs a high powered equipment , the sound emitted at a specific volume level would be different between the two.

If you calibrate your system so that they're at the same average level, no it won't. Your perception of that however, as you say, may well be "night and day". And I expect that the perceptual difference will be down to the extra headroom now available.