question about open back headphones

[koushikp]

the AD700 is available for 6.7k in flipkart...its not available in pristine..not online at least..i will call today to find out if they have it in stock..but the sheer convenience of flipkart is hard to beat...

Is it an unanimous vote here for the AD700 over the HD518? As far as my music taste goes i listen to a lot classic rock, a little bit of hard rock, and bollywood numbers (not light stuff, the more intense numbers) and very recently started dipping my toes into jazz..

Have to rely on review and recommendation as there is no way to audition anything...called up a few friends of mine, none of them have a open back headphone, but I am going to pull the trigger anyway, read up a little more, another thing that struck a cord with me regarding open backed ones is the fact that its better for ear health if one uses them for long hours...now that's something i have to start caring about being almost on the wrong side of 30!

 

[tirthankar]

Koushik, where are you located?

 

[koushikp]

I live in Mumbai tirthankar..

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[theironhorse]

the AD700 is available for 6.7k in flipkart...its not available in pristine..not online at least..i will call today to find out if they have it in stock..but the sheer convenience of flipkart is hard to beat...

Is it an unanimous vote here for the AD700 over the HD518? As far as my music taste goes i listen to a lot classic rock, a little bit of hard rock, and bollywood numbers (not light stuff, the more intense numbers) and very recently started dipping my toes into jazz..

Have to rely on review and recommendation as there is no way to audition anything...called up a few friends of mine, none of them have a open back headphone, but I am going to pull the trigger anyway, read up a little more, another thing that struck a cord with me regarding open backed ones is the fact that its better for ear health if one uses them for long hours...now that's something i have to start caring about being almost on the wrong side of 30!

pristine note website get updated daily and whatever stock he gets for ad700 and m50 gets over in a few days. you are in Mumbai. why don't you ride/drive down to his shop and try different hp's.


for your taste of music i believe you should look forward for grado's.
they are some marvelous hp's for rock music and loved for on the face presentation..

check for sr60i , sr80i else ms1

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Is it an unanimous vote here for the AD700 over the HD518?

I don't have the experience to join in that vote: I've never tried the HD518, not even in the shop, and my headphone experience is so limited I can only talk about the AT open-back AD series.

I would want you to make sure that those ATs are physically comfortable for you before buying.

 

[koushikp]

Yes the ad700s are available today, I will pay them a visit and check it out..any known resellers of Grado in mumbai?


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[theironhorse]

Yes the ad700s are available today, I will pay them a visit and check it out..any known resellers of Grado in mumbai?


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same guy also deals with grado's you can audition all of them together.. take your music in you pmp or whatever source you want to use them with if possible

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Definately take your music on your player.

The PMP may not be the best source possible, but you know what it sounds like on your usual earwear. Plug into something else, and it might be the something else that is bowling you over. Worse.. you might end up buying it as well :lol:

 

[koushikp]

well the prospects of visiting pristine look dim before next Saturday given their timings so i could not hold myself back and started doing some research, starting with some quantitative data about the frequency response which should capture the sound signature of each of the brands...

Since I am absolutely inexperienced to how to deal with this data, as in what it shows vs. what it really means...will be very thankful for the inputs..

first i compared the ad700, grado sr80 and hd280 pro, to establish how weaker their bass really is compared to normal closed midrange can like the hd280 pro..the weaker bass is quite apparent, and here i can see what ironhorse meant by grados being more in the face, with their upper midrange and high frequency hump being quite prominent, would come in handy in rock like music..

then I compared the 2 sennheisers i am considering with their reference can - hd650, i am very very surprised by the result...the hd558 tracks the hd650 very very closely, with the 518 dropping off in the midrange, since the 558 is just 1.5k more expensive, i will consider buying that instead of the hd518. Now here's my question...if the hd558 is so similar across the frequency curve to the hd650, it should sound very good isn't it? while I take ironhorse's point about Grados being better for rock, I want the cans to be versatile, as I am now dipping into many forms of music that I didn't used to before, starting with jazz...and the HD650 is considered to be quite versatile isn't it?

Having established that the hd558 is the senn can to aim for, I have then compared it to the sr80 and ad700...here i would need a bit of help, it seems the senns are quite a bit better in bass than the other two, and tracks the other two curves quite closely..just about being in the middle of the sr80 and the ad700, then there is sharp drop off near the high frequencies, But it seems to me that is past 10khz, and may not matter right?

again from this comparison it seems at least on paper the hd558 is the one which is most balanced...do u guys agree or am i missing something?

 

[theironhorse]

senn 558 is a good choice but trust me it wont better ad-700/grado's besides the bass.

if you talk bout jazz and classic rock you'd love to hear the drums like drums and not want a chest thumping bass..

havent heard 558 so wudn't comment but yes the ad700 and grado's would not have a bass like senn. but all i know bout senn is the bass isin't smooth.

if you want bass look for a closed HP.

i would ask you to wait for next week and audition grado's sr60, sr80 and ms1 and the ad700. you wont go back to senn.

also if we go as per the graph the midrange of the grado's excel.

what the graph dosen't tell is the tonality and the clarity. also the sound stage and the presentation.

at prinstine note you will be able to audition grado's n AT.

dont look for headphone that are expensive now.. after you mature out of these.
i would suggest you to move to the orthodynamic headphones and you'd hate your speakers.. i bet you for that.

 

[koushikp]

thanks ironhorse...yeah I am not feeling that trigger happy, I will definitely wait till i audition the AT and the Grados till i do something...merely trying to understand the different aspects since I am new to the headphone world..thanks man for replying...looks like i am not the only in the dead of the night feeding the crazy hobby of audio!!

And also, no I am not really a "bass head" and not looking to do headbanging after wearing my cans...so that's not a consideration..i agree that the graphs can never capture clarity and tonality..my observation was merely towards the flatter curve of the 558 across the frequency range...but these are all academic studies out of interest...ultimately i am going to buy something i can try..and from that angle, senns are already out of luck...if i like something in pristine on my visit, i am going to pick it up then and there only...

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

That's a neat comparison tool from Headroom!

When I was deciding between the AT AD700 and the AD900, what decided me was the feeling of space with the 900s; it was more like being in a concert hall. Curiously, the charts show that what the 900 has is more bass --- which is not what I expected. Anyway, I know I bought the one I liked best

Watch out for the AT model numbers: some of them are very similar, but relate to closed-back.

 

[koushikp]

Thanks Thad...i had read your earlier post, I will for sure not audition anything outside my price range of 10k...as I have sadly learned in audio expensive is usually better...and why spoil the perception of a perfectly good product by hearing something unaffordable...interestingly i just noticed no grados are even listed in the pristine site, usually they have sold out tag in the products currently not in stock...i hope they still sell it...

Also thad, what was the price of the AD900s? I guess they are out of stock now in pristine, but i can always wait if i like it..

 

[doors666]

quick question, why are all these cans going to dogs beyond 10khz? If a speaker showed that kind of response, i wouldn't touch it with a 10 feet pole.

 

[theironhorse]

Thanks Thad...i had read your earlier post, I will for sure not audition anything outside my price range of 10k...as I have sadly learned in audio expensive is usually better...and why spoil the perception of a perfectly good product by hearing something unaffordable...interestingly i just noticed no grados are even listed in the pristine site, usually they have sold out tag in the products currently not in stock...i hope they still sell it...

Also thad, what was the price of the AD900s? I guess they are out of stock now in pristine, but i can always wait if i like it..

he wudn't have the sold out tag. he gets the stock and he adds them back.
call him up . i am pretty sure he deals with grado's.

 

[koushikp]

quick question, why are all these cans going to dogs beyond 10khz? If a speaker showed that kind of response, i wouldn't touch it with a 10 feet pole.

They aren't really going to the dogs...apart from the ad500 maybe which shows a significant drop, rest if them, if you look at the slope the post 10 khz levels are around or only slightly below the 20hz...if the slope was any steeper on the right side they might become overly harsh/bright as far as I understand.

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[Thad E Ginathom]

Thanks Thad...i had read your earlier post, I will for sure not audition anything outside my price range of 10k...as I have sadly learned in audio expensive is usually better...and why spoil the perception of a perfectly good product by hearing something unaffordable...

Often true: it was in my case, having gone to buy the AD700s. Sometimes, though, it either isn't, or the margin is so small as to be not worth the money. Your approach is safest though!

Also thad, what was the price of the AD900s? I guess they are out of stock now in pristine, but i can always wait if i like it..

Apparently, when a woman gives birth, a hormone is produced in the brain which makes her forget what a totally dreadful experience it is. Without that, I doubt that anyone would choose to do it more than once, and maybe the human race would die out! Much the same thing happens to me with spending money: I forget the price almost immediately. Essential for a shopoholic :lol:

But I bought them here, and the current price is 369 Singapore Dollars, with the AD700s at S$238.

quick question, why are all these cans going to dogs beyond 10khz? If a speaker showed that kind of response, i wouldn't touch it with a 10 feet pole.

They aren't really going to the dogs...apart from the ad500 maybe which shows a significant drop, rest if them, if you look at the slope the post 10 khz levels are around or only slightly below the 20hz...if the slope was any steeper on the right side they might become overly harsh/bright as far as I understand.

I think it is partly the way the graph scale works?

 

[koushikp]

Apparently, when a woman gives birth, a hormone is produced in the brain which makes her forget what a totally dreadful experience it is. Without that, I doubt that anyone would choose to do it more than once, and maybe the human race would die out! Much the same thing happens to me with spending money: I forget the price almost immediately. Essential for a shopoholic :lol:

hahahahaha :lol::lol:

 

[gryph0n]

quick question, why are all these cans going to dogs beyond 10khz? If a speaker showed that kind of response, i wouldn't touch it with a 10 feet pole.

The scale on the graph is not linear. It seems exponential (from the markings on the frequency scale). So while the cans have decent response above 10khz, probably till 17-18khz, the graph's scale is too short to emphasize it.

Now the interesting question is why pick a exponentional scale rather than a logarithmic scale ? I'd guess the tester was more interested in the bass & midrange.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

I don't understand mathematical terms but is it to do with:

--- Each octave rise in tone doubles the frequency in hz, so they use a scale that represents more accurately how we hear?

and/or

--- Our ear's frequency range drops off more steeply at the higher end than at the lower end? Not 100% sure of this, but I think so.