Recommendation for beginner Turntable

[har297]

After listening to Digital formats, want to try on with full analogue music, so what better way than a LP...

So started researching on TT and looking to try something along lines of Rega RP1. Then came the dilemma of a good used TT vs a new Rega RP1.

So i need your valuable suggestion on above, i do not need functionalities like USB interface, just a plain TT.

Thanks
Har

 

[reubensm]

If its within your budget and you are not very comfortable with the technicalities yet, go for the Rega. If you are comfy with DIY, self maintenance, etc then go with a good used TT. Both ways, you can make a good entrance into the world of vinyl. However unlike with CDs, don't forget that you need to have a few good records as well, to start with. Hope you have an amp with a phono input. If not, you'd need a good phono preamplifier too.

 

[jls001]

So started researching on TT and looking to try something along lines of Rega RP1. Then came the dilemma of a good used TT vs a new Rega RP1.

Since you mentioned RP1, please check out this shootout between the ProJect Debut Carbon DC, Rega RP1 and Sony PS-HX500. It's comprehensive and systematic:

https://youtu.be/MuuOgT0XBK0

 

[dazoy]

I am very impressed with Auudio Technica LP120.

1. It has built in preamp (you can use your own, bypassing it).
2. There is USB, if you would like to broadcast music using DAC.
3. I find it really well balanced and works on both 110 and 220 volts.
4. There are various upgrade options (mat, stylus, tonearm, etc etc etc, to suite your taste).

Give it a try, you wont repent. I promise.

Cheers,

Saurabh

 

[Selvin]

If its within your budget and you are not very comfortable with the technicalities yet, go for the Rega. If you are comfy with DIY, self maintenance, etc then go with a good used TT. Both ways, you can make a good entrance into the world of vinyl. However unlike with CDs, don't forget that you need to have a few good records as well, to start with. Hope you have an amp with a phono input. If not, you'd need a good phono preamplifier too.

Well said.

If you chosen the route of Rega RP1 or Project Debut Carbon try to upgrade the stock cartridge. Ortofon 2M Blue, Nagaoka MP-110 are worth to try. Alternatively if you found some old Technics EPC-270C, EPC-205 or 207 grab it and order a Jico stylus to them. These are some hidden gem and makes shy todays 200$ cartridges. If use stock cartridge you may arrive a conclusion that vinyls are sounding bad compare to CDs.

 

[Fiftyfifty]

Hey!

I was in a similar situation a few months ago. I ordered the Rega RP1 performance pack which comes with an upgraded cartridge. The standard Ortofon OMB5 has been replaced by Regas own Bias 2. I added Schiit Mani Phono preamp. This feeds into a Bryston SP 1.7 preamp, Cary 200.2 Power amp and Martin Logan ESL speakers.

My system sounds extremely pleasing with digital sources. But with the tt, the warmth is completely lacking. The sound is flat without any decay or ringing on the notes. In particular, western classical music sounds as if coming from a tin speaker. I have a wide range of LPs, many of them good pressings.

Wonder what the issue is. Is it the Schiit Mani? Has it not burned in sufficiently? Or is it something else.

Will be grateful for advice.

 

[har297]

If its within your budget and you are not very comfortable with the technicalities yet, go for the Rega. If you are comfy with DIY, self maintenance, etc then go with a good used TT. Both ways, you can make a good entrance into the world of vinyl. However unlike with CDs, don't forget that you need to have a few good records as well, to start with. Hope you have an amp with a phono input. If not, you'd need a good phono preamplifier too.

I am fine with DIY, maintenance, will hunt in parallel for used TT as well.

 

[Selvin]

Hey!

I was in a similar situation a few months ago. I ordered the Rega RP1 performance pack which comes with an upgraded cartridge. The standard Ortofon OMB5 has been replaced by Regas own Bias 2. I added Schiit Mani Phono preamp. This feeds into a Bryston SP 1.7 preamp, Cary 200.2 Power amp and Martin Logan ESL speakers.

My system sounds extremely pleasing with digital sources. But with the tt, the warmth is completely lacking. The sound is flat without any decay or ringing on the notes. In particular, western classical music sounds as if coming from a tin speaker. I have a wide range of LPs, many of them good pressings.

Wonder what the issue is. Is it the Schiit Mani? Has it not burned in sufficiently? Or is it something else.

Will be grateful for advice.

Try with some other cartridges Like AT440MLB, 2M Blue and for better sound stage Nagaoka MP150 or MP200 depends your budget.

 

[Selvin]

Hey!

Wonder what the issue is. Is it the Schiit Mani? Has it not burned in sufficiently? Or is it something else.

Will be grateful for advice.

New cartridges / Stylus sound open after about 30 hours use.

 

[jls001]

My system sounds extremely pleasing with digital sources. But with the tt, the warmth is completely lacking. The sound is flat without any decay or ringing on the notes. In particular, western classical music sounds as if coming from a tin speaker. I have a wide range of LPs, many of them good pressings.

Wonder what the issue is. Is it the Schiit Mani? Has it not burned in sufficiently? Or is it something else.

As already pointed out by others, burn in is a reality for both cartridges and phono preamps.

What is the recommended burn in hours for the Bias 2? And the Mani? Some cartridges can sound uninspiring till it is broken in (I'm currently burning in two fresh cartridges and one of them had almost no bass weight till I reached about 15 hours of usage. After crossing this invisible barrier, the bass weight and texture is slowly emerging). Same principle applies for some (if not most) electronics components.

That aside, did you cross-check alignment of cartridges using a simple two point null point protractor? One would probably be included with the TT (I know it is supplied with a ProJect Carbon Debut). While you're at it, cross-check the tracking force too.

Lastly, you won't get warm and fuzzy sound from your TT-cart combo. It should sound neutral, closer to CD sound than you might think (good vinyl and good digital playback sound more similar than different).

 

[Fiftyfifty]

As already pointed out by others, burn in is a reality for both cartridges and phono preamps.......
should sound neutral, closer to CD sound than you might think (good vinyl and good digital playback sound more similar than different).

Thanks! That about addresses all possible issues. I have aligned the cartridge, adjusted the tracking force, counter weight and anti skate. That leaves me with the issues of cartridge quality, preamp quality and burn-in. Let me wait until some more burn in happens, then take a call.

Thanks again

 

[sandeepmohan]

The sound is flat without any decay or ringing on the notes. In particular, western classical music sounds as if coming from a tin speaker. I have a wide range of LPs, many of them good pressings.

Have you adjusted the cartridge loading on phono pre amplifier?

Looking at all the other gear you have, the Rega RP1 (Even in performance kit guise) is at the budget end of the spectrum. You probably need something more in alignment with the equipment that you use and that includes the phono pre amplifier.

I own a Rega RP1 with the Ortofon OM5E. This is a very basic cartridge and even then it sounds fantastic. I did buy a Bias 2. Never got to fixing it. Warmth is something I don't miss for sure and the sound is definitely not tiny. Listening to Simon and Art Garfunkel, Julio Iglesias and Neil Diamond; their voices shine through this table.

When you say good pressings, can you please mention the label?

To the thread starter, the Rega RP1 or Pro Ject Debut Carbon is indeed the way to go. Great starter turntables. I highly recommend the Denon DP300F too as it is a little easier to source and you could probably listen to one as Pro Fx are almost everywhere. Yes; it is a plastic turntable and a very good one at that.

 

[prem]

Fifty fifty, the Esoteric CD player you have will be far superior to the turntable you presently own. You will need to buy a better turntable to have a fair comparison with your existing digital set up. Upgrading your cartridge/phono with your existing table will all be minor shifts.

You will probably have to go upto atleast a Rega 6 to have a fair comparison with your existing digital

 

[prem]

Fifty fifty, I suggest you stick to digital unless the music you hear is better mastered on vinyl. Else you'll have to spend a lot to get the vinyl rig to sound the equivalent of the Esoteric. One thing you may want to look at to improve your Esoteric is to use a Silent Running Audio VR Isobase under it. Also Esoteric responds to power cords big time.

 

[Fiftyfifty]

Looking at all the other gear you have, the Rega RP1 (Even in performance kit guise) is at the budget end of the spectrum./QUOTE]

You will need to buy a better turntable to have a fair comparison with your existing digital/QUOTE]

Thanks for the inputs Sandeepmohan/Prem.

Yeah, this is what I have been suspecting.The tt is a gift and I was hoping that it would pair well with my other equipment.

For now, I thought I should proceed as follows:
1. Run the TT setup burn in for 50-60 hours.
2. If (1) is not satisfactory, replace the phono pre I was thinking of the Lyrita phono pre in place of the Schiit Mani. Any inputs on this choice?
3. Finally, upgrade the TT, not the cartridge.

Will be grateful for inputs.

Kishore

 

[prem]

Your choice of phono will depend on your cartridge. For example if you finalise Denon DL 103, you might want to use a Auditorium 23 step up between the phono and the table.

I would suggest look at Jasmine phono.

 

[Fiftyfifty]

improve your Esoteric is to use a Silent Running Audio VR Isobase under it. Also Esoteric responds to power cords big time.

The Isobase looks interesting. Available in India? I am currently using Isopads and some isolators from Soundfoundations. And yes, I have upgraded the stock power cord too.

 

[prem]

Not available in India. What is the weight of your Esoteric? Naturelover on the forum might have a spare one. You can check with him

 

[Fiftyfifty]

Not available in India. What is the weight of your Esoteric? Naturelover on the forum might have a spare one. You can check with him

18 kgs. I'll PM Naturelover. Thanks

 

[sandeepmohan]

Run the TT setup burn in for 50-60 hours.
2. If (1) is not satisfactory, replace the phono pre I was thinking of the Lyrita phono pre in place of the Schiit Mani. Any inputs on this choice?
3. Finally, upgrade the TT, not the cartridge.

Don't bother upgrading the phono pre amplifier or anything. You will be wasting money. The Rega RP1 with a Bias 2 cartridge is as good as its going to get. If you do not like the sound after burn in, sell it. It just does not fit in your system.

I am curious to know the labels of the pressings you have. 180gm vinyl need not sound great. There are rubbish ones around. Try a different genre of music.

I am in a similar situation as yourself (in terms of equipment pairing). My phono pre amplifier costs way more than my Rega and my integrated costs almost ten times more. I know I am missing out on a lot and I am okay with that. I have a few quality vinyl pressings. The rest are what I borrowed from my folks. Not from big labels and some of them still sound great. Vinyl is not meant to sound digital at all. Atleast not to me. There is tonal quality to vinyl that cannot be matched by digital no matter what the price of your digital source is. I listen to digital for the qualities of digital and like wise for vinyl. You cannot compare them.

You might want to fly down to Bangalore and spend a day listening to Scheu Analog sold by The Listening Room or a Clearaudio, higher end Rega. I've heard them all and assure you that they will open a world of sound that you have never heard.