Sansui SR 222 Speed issue

[greenhorn]

I would run a check on toneearm calibration, especially the anti-skate. Also run a check on the tonearm height. Assume that your stylus is in good shape. When stylus wear happens, the drop in performance is usually first noticed on older records. (You have not mentioned whether the older records sounded good before and there's a sudden noticeable fall in sound quality, so assume all your older records are clean and in good shape overall)

As RP mentioned, Technics turntables are very accurate. The Technics tonearm is often made fun of and considered low end, but the fact is that is is probably one of the best tonearms around.

Nah, the Sansui has a more limited frequency response - both the highs and lows are less, but a lot of it is due to the cartridge and the mat. Highs improved after I swapped mats, and a bit further when i swapped cartridges, but the bass is still less than the technics. The technics bass is amazing, especially with the M44-7.

I'm still yet to try the Technics with the M75, but the M75 has a much darker, and laid back (though a bit weak in the bass) sound, which tends to mask bad recordings


by the way, the problem is not with older records, rather with older recordings. A compilation would have a 50's recording with a honky tonk sound, and a 60's one with the nashville sound.
the honky tonk ones are way too in your face with the technics and the m44-7, while the nashville ones sound amazing.

on the sansui, the honky tonk ones sound fine, but the nashville ones feel a bit veiled.

I still think this has got more to do with the cartridges as well. I'm not saying one is better, but they do sound different.

 

[reubensm]

bass is amazing, especially with the M44-7

The M44-7 is well known for its extended bass performance and high output.

 

[omishra]

I have Thorens TD 150 MK2 belt driven TT with rega 301 Denon DL-103R. I recently changed the belt because it was unable to switch from 33 to 45 RPM using that lever. I need to do it manually each time. Other way it was working fine. And its 100% silent. Though I have 1200MKII, still this is my main TT.
But I do take care of belt. I remove it from pulley whenever not in use. Also keep it away from oil or grease used for lubrication.

 

[greenhorn]

okay, another issue has turned up - My understanding of how anti skate works is that at 0 anti skate, the tonearm with the tracking force at 0 should not move at all, or show minimal movement, and this should increase with increasing anti skate.

This tonearm, however, tends to find an equilibrium position. and tends to move there, even if I move the tonearm inwards or outwards. If i dial up the anti skate, the equilibrium position just moves outwards.

 

[kuruvilajacob]

okay, another issue has turned up - My understanding of how anti skate works is that at 0 anti skate, the tonearm with the tracking force at 0 should not move at all, or show minimal movement, and this should increase with increasing anti skate.

This tonearm, however, tends to find an equilibrium position. and tends to move there, even if I move the tonearm inwards or outwards. If i dial up the anti skate, the equilibrium position just moves outwards.

I have read in many of the instruction manuals that the anti skate should be same as the tracking force. But with the passage of time, the anti skate control using a spring system will not work as efficiently as the company would have originally designed . I normally keep the anti skating at zero and increase it only if necessary.

 

[greenhorn]

right now, I'm not sure the replacement stylus I'm using should have the same tracking force. the original stylus was a .2x.7 mil stylus, with a tracking force of .75 to 1.5g and the generic replacement is a .4x.7 mil - I'm still trying to figure out its proper tracking force - at 1.5g, it doesnt track well, and kept skipping inwards until I maxed out the anti skate. Now that I've increased the tracking force to 2g, It seems to be able to hold the groove a bit better, but I'm still waiting for the seller to revert about the proper tracking force.

 

[evilcartman]

Sorry to bump an old thread, but I owned one of these turntables from 1984 to 2009, so I think I may be able to help if the OP is still having problems with it.

In the first couple of years that I owned the Sansui, I always felt that it played slightly too slow and assumed that it was caused by a stretched belt, so I changed the belt several times in those years. There was a Pioneer belt that was considered a direct replacement of the Sansui's belt, incidentally, although it's too long ago for me to remember parts numbers.

Anyway, I got fed up of constantly changing belts and I wrote to Sansui's UK offices to see if the problem could be fixed. As it happens, a very helpful engineer wrote back to me and included photocopies from a technical manual. It turned out that there was an internal adjustment screw that controls the speed of the motor. Once I had tweaked this in conjunction with using a strobe wheel on the platter, I was able to get the speed bang on and I never needed to replace a belt ever again after that.

I wish I could tell you exactly where the adjustment screw was but please bear in mind that it was a good 28 years ago that I was given this solution!

To the people arguing over whether belt drives are better than direct drive, it really depends on what your priorities are. I now have a pair of Technics SL-1210s (the classic direct drive DJ turntables). These were the industry standard in the club DJ world for many years (and still are in scenes where vinyl DJ-ing hasn't died out). But the main reasons for their popularity was very solid build quality, high torque (essential when cueing up) and the pitch controls that enable beatmatching.

Most of the best audiophile turntables, on the other hand, are still belt drive. Thorens and Linn Sondek, for example.

Going back to the Sansui, I have to confess that I was slightly envious of people who had the Dual CS-505 Mk 2, as that had a much punchier sound, particularly with transients, which were the Sansui's weak point.

P.S. The motor is a DC servo motor if I remember rightly, not AC.

 

[greenhorn]

I'm pretty sure that the motor is an ac synchronous motor.
Are you sure you had an SR 222? I can't find an ajustment screw on the motor - this motor adjustment screw business sounds like a DC motor

 

[mane]

Hi Guys so I know I am bringing up an old post, but I figure I should keep similar problems together, Ive had a sansui 212 (figure the design is pretty similar) that my dad managed to find somewhere.
Anyway after replacing the belt and giving the motor a lovely drink of 3 in 1 all was well for maybe a year or so, firstly the auto return stopped working- the tone arm would travel back to its resting place and the you can hear the recognizable clicking sound but the platter still spun. I figured as the system is pretty much cogs and levers something slipped underneath and its not a major concern, I could stop it at the plug but I began to notice the speed definitely slow down to the point where 33s could pretty much be played on 45 with it only it sounding slightly fast.

Ive heard about speed adjustment screws in the motor but there are many screws, also should the spindle be at a certain height compared with the belt? would that effect the speed?

thanks
Chris

 

[greenhorn]

dont think there is a speed adjustment here - the 212 also runs a synchronous motor

try to fix the auto return issue first
the service manual is available here
https://www.vinylengine.com/library/sansui/sr-212.shtml
You'll need to register there - folks at that site might be able to help you better

 

[mane]

hey green horn thanks for the link.

Quick question, i had an old sr 212 manual around and in it I see the parts list with it indicating there are two capstans one for 60hz and one for 50hz, I definitely remember there being a spare (or what I thought was a spare) and switching the two at some point could this be the cause of my problems? Im in the UK.

Chris

 

[greenhorn]

if you are using a 60hz pulley, then yes, it will run slower. if you have always been in the UK, then you should have stuck to the same pulley

did the spare pulley ever run at the correct speed ? if yes, then its a spare, if it ran slow, it was probably a 60hz one.

before getting into troubleshooting the pulley, disconnect the belt, put the platter back on and see if it rotates freely. it should rotate at least 2-3 times on its own before slowly coming to rest.