Smsl d300

[Ebenezer]

Hi All, based on Tharbhamar's review and few reviews in this thread, I have bought SMSL D300 (I had pre-ordered it and got it delivered couple of weeks back). My components are ifi zen Stream - SMSL D300 DAC - Yamaha AS500 Amp - Wharfedale Evo 4.2. I had bought ifi streamer and SMSL D300 together. My following impressions are based on listening to FLAC files through pen drive connected to Ifi zen stream

- initial few days the sound was too bright and harsh. Brighter than Allo Boss DAC that I was using earlier. After about 10 hours of usage, it started to breaking in and shine.

- after 20 hours of usage, now it sounds awesome. Sounds very natural, balanced across all the frequencies, detailed, very resolving, well exdended in high frequencies (without any sibilance), slightly smoother mid and lower mid frequencies (which is what creates that magical analogue rig like sound).

- I am amazed by the deep and wide soundstage, each instrument is heard distinctively. It feels like the instrument players are playing next to you. I feel that each instruments are sounding naturally and accurately. Especially acoustic instruments sounds excellent.

- Bass is really good and textured, Punchier based on how it is recorded in different songs. Slightly smoother on most songs. Bit less attack compared to other DACs. However, when you are hearing to such a magical sound, you won't feel like complaining about smoother edges. In fact this smoother edges is synergic with my bright sounding Evo 4.2's mid driver.

After seeing the feedback from heliumflight And Gokul that the sound is too smoother, I was bit sceptical if I would really like it's sound. To my surprise it is not too smooth in my system. It just sounds right / accurate. Not sure if the sound would still evolve as I have used it only for about 25 hours now.

 

[DB1989]

Hi All, based on Tharbhamar's review and few reviews in this thread, I have bought SMSL D300 (I had pre-ordered it and got it delivered couple of weeks back). My components are ifi zen Stream - SMSL D300 DAC - Yamaha AS500 Amp - Wharfedale Evo 4.2. I had bought ifi streamer and SMSL D300 together. My following impressions are based on listening to FLAC files through pen drive connected to Ifi zen stream

- initial few days the sound was too bright and harsh. Brighter than Allo Boss DAC that I was using earlier. After about 10 hours of usage, it started to breaking in and shine.

- after 20 hours of usage, now it sounds awesome. Sounds very natural, balanced across all the frequencies, detailed, very resolving, well exdended in high frequencies (without any sibilance), slightly smoother mid and lower mid frequencies (which is what creates that magical analogue rig like sound).

- I am amazed by the deep and wide soundstage, each instrument is heard distinctively. It feels like the instrument players are playing next to you. I feel that each instruments are sounding naturally and accurately. Especially acoustic instruments sounds excellent.

- Bass is really good and textured, Punchier based on how it is recorded in different songs. Slightly smoother on most songs. Bit less attack compared to other DACs. However, when you are hearing to such a magical sound, you won't feel like complaining about smoother edges. In fact this smoother edges is synergic with my bright sounding Evo 4.2's mid driver.

After seeing the feedback from heliumflight And Gokul that the sound is too smoother, I was bit sceptical if I would really like it's sound. To my surprise it is not too smooth in my system. It just sounds right / accurate. Not sure if the sound would still evolve as I have used it only for about 25 hours now.

In my experience, i have never heard DACs break in.

I'm not ruling out the possibility - all I'm saying is the differences are too nuanced and subtle for me to be able to tell a difference.

For that matter, unless i do a direct A/B test and keep the time between switching to less than 10 seconds, it's nearly impossible for me to tell the difference between DACs as i find the differences to be very subtle and my auditory memory to be too fickle.

 

[Ebenezer]

We keep talking about how sound is so subjective, how no two people perceive sound the same, yada, yada till it oozes out of our ears. And rightly so.
Yet, here we are, questioning (which is fine), mocking and poking fun of (not so fine) someone for the very same perception.
Damned if we do and equally damned if we don't.
Like a famous person in the forum once said "whatever floats one's boat".

When I was asking for suggestions prior to buying Evo 4.2, you had suggested me to upgrade the source / DAC first. Now I have witnessed how much of magic it can do. Even my older Wharfedale Diamond 10.2 speakers sounds amazing with ifi zen stream + SMSL D300 DAC. I never heard my Yam as500 sounding this good before

 

[Ebenezer]

In my experience, i have never heard DACs break in.

I'm not ruling out the possibility - all I'm saying is the differences are too nuanced and subtle for me to be able to tell a difference.

For that matter, unless i do a direct A/B test and keep the time between switching to less than 10 seconds, it's nearly impossible for me to tell the difference between DACs as i find the differences to be very subtle and my auditory memory to be too fickle.

I don't know whether it is breaking in of D300 DAC or ifi zen stream since both were new. (I bought them together). But for sure there was a considerable difference in sound quality (it improved)

 

[DB1989]

I don't know whether it is breaking in of D300 DAC or ifi zen stream since both were new. (I bought them together). But for sure there was a considerable difference in sound quality (it improved)

I have had rotten luck with the Zen stream. Mine turned out to be a lemon.

 

[magma]

In my experience, i have never heard DACs break in.

I'm not ruling out the possibility - all I'm saying is the differences are too nuanced and subtle for me to be able to tell a difference.

For that matter, unless i do a direct A/B test and keep the time between switching to less than 10 seconds, it's nearly impossible for me to tell the difference between DACs as i find the differences to be very subtle and my auditory memory to be too fickle.

I agree


There is no break in On a dac
I wonder if streamers and laptops break in too

Most of the time
It's your mind been
"Broken in "

 

[ZzZzZ]

I agree


There is no break in On a dac
I wonder if streamers and laptops break in too

Most of the time
It's your mind been
"Broken in "

slowly adjusts to newly perceived sensations it's called as neural adaptation in medicine while i don't know much about electronics but they say capacitors take time to settle in, so maybe both are true in a mutually complementary way.

 

[mbhangui]

I agree


There is no break in On a dac
I wonder if streamers and laptops break in too

Most of the time
It's your mind been
"Broken in "

If semiconductors and electronic components changes property after few hours, then it would have been impossible to design electronic devices. There are no mechanical components in DACs, etc. Apart from electrolytic capacitors there are no other compents that have their property changed permanently after few hours of usage.

This breakin concept has come from automobiles where the vehicle's piston and cylinder lining get smoothened after use.

The audio snake oil industry has brought in this concept into this world. The height of making gullible people fall prey is probably this cable cooker (and I'm not talking about the cable industry, some of them going as far as saying atoms aligning themselves,etc). The cheapest version of this cable cooker is $1079. It allows you to break in your brand new cables and if you see the reviews you will actually find rave reviews of the product.

The Cable Cooker

If you can detect break-in of your audio equipment, all i can say is good for you. You have special gifted ears which even instruments cannot detect.

 

[DB1989]

If semiconductors and electronic components changes property after few hours, then it would have been impossible to design electronic devices. There are no mechanical components in DACs, etc. Apart from electrolytic capacitors there are no other compents that have their property changed permanently after few hours of usage.

This breakin concept has come from automobiles where the vehicle's pistion and cylinder lining get smoothened after use.

The audio snake oil industry has brought in this concept into this world. The height of making gullible people fall prey is probably this cable cooker (and I'm not talking about the cable industry, some of them going as far as saying atoms aligning themselves,etc). The cheapest version of this cable cooker is $1079. It allows you to break in your brand new cables and if you see the reviews you will actually find rave reviews of the product.

The Cable Cooker

If you can detect break-in of your audio equipment, all i can say is good for you. You have special gifted ears which even instruments cannot detect.

And speakers (basically, components with moving parts), most noticeable in subwoofers. And not just tone and texture but output. I've seen it increase by as much as 40% post the first hour.

 

[mbhangui]

In my experience, i have never heard DACs break in.

I'm not ruling out the possibility - all I'm saying is the differences are too nuanced and subtle for me to be able to tell a difference.

For that matter, unless i do a direct A/B test and keep the time between switching to less than 10 seconds, it's nearly impossible for me to tell the difference between DACs as i find the differences to be very subtle and my auditory memory to be too fickle.

True. and why just 10 seconds? I don't think humans have the capability to store that information beyond few seconds. The only way to test difference is to have a A/B switch. This is what I do to test out difference between two dacs.

1. Make sure volume is same between two equipments
2. Change should happen in few milliseconds. So I connect the two equipments to a preamp with a selector switch and keep on togging between those two positions. If I hear a difference I know the difference between the two dacs. I have found DS dacs have reached certain degree of maturity and I find no difference. Maybe the ladder DACS are different and that is one thing I'm yet to try.

 

[mbhangui]

And speakers (basically, components with moving parts), most noticeable in subwoofers. And not just tone and texture but output. I've seen it increase by as much as 40% post the first hour.

Yes. And also the paper/polymer cone will change over time. With usage and age, the tension becomes looser and looser. Logically what you say is right about subwoofer. Subwoofer performs best if it takes minimal effort to move the diagraphgm and larger diameter facilates this and also loosening of the tension facilitates this. So subwoofer will become better and better with age. The resonant frequency for tweeter will be higher for tighter diapragm. So I guess tweeter will deteriorate with age.

Remember tuning forks from school days?

Longer forks resonated at lower frequency
shorter forks resonate at higher frequency.
It is the same concept with speakers

 

[Bloom@83]

In my experience, i have never heard DACs break in.

I'm not ruling out the possibility - all I'm saying is the differences are too nuanced and subtle for me to be able to tell a difference.

For that matter, unless i do a direct A/B test and keep the time between switching to less than 10 seconds, it's nearly impossible for me to tell the difference between DACs as i find the differences to be very subtle and my auditory memory to be too fickle.

What you’ve managed to achieve in your setup , being able to instantaneously switch between two DACs playing from the same source , is the only proper way to do DAC comparisons. And going by that , there really wasn’t any substantial difference between a 40k DAC and a 1.2L DAC that I listened to… Yes , I preferred the 1.2L one for certain reasons , but the differences were nothing to lose sleep over , and I’d have been perfectly happy with either.

 

[DB1989]

Yes. And also the paper/polymer cone will change over time. With usage and age, the tension becomes looser and looser.

Also the rubber surrounds. Initially, its stiff and the cone can't get moving enough. Loosens up a fair bit within an hour or two though to make a "day and night" difference!

Logically what you say is right about subwoofer. Subwoofer performs best if it takes minimal effort to move the diagraphgm and larger diameter facilates this and also loosening of the tension facilitates this. So subwoofer will become better and better with age.

When I'd got the Mission MS450 initially, i had to turn up the volume to nearly 80% for the bass to makes its presence felt when paired with my most sensitive speaker rate at 92db (and not referring to the Klipsch RP600M which is approx 89db in reality). Approx 20 hours of usage later (over a week or so), anything above 50% irrespective of speaker is way too much.

In fact, I always forget that burn in is a thing with respect to subwoofers and feel my heart plummet when subwoofers sound dull and devoid of output right out of the box!

The resonant frequency for tweeter will be higher for tighter diapragm. So I guess tweeter will deteriorate with age.

Remember tuning forks from school days?

Depends on the school

 

[DB1989]

True. and why just 10 seconds? I don't think humans have the capability to store that information beyond few seconds. The only way to test difference is to have a A/B switch. This is what I do to test out difference between two dacs.

1. Make sure volume is same between two equipments

I usually play pink noise through all sources being tested and measure the difference to make the necessary adjustments when/before switching. Thankfully, all my DACs have a volume control so it is a non-issue.

2. Change should happen in few milliseconds. So I connect the two equipments to a preamp with a selector switch and keep on togging between those two positions. If I hear a difference I know the difference between the two dacs.

same here.

I have found DS dacs have reached certain degree of maturity and I find no difference. Maybe the ladder DACS are different and that is one thing I'm yet to try.

I've heard mostly DS DACs and a single FPGA one and found the difference between these two architectures to also be minimal as @Bloom@83 alluded to.

 

[Bloom@83]

Going by my experience with Denafrips Ares 2 , not a huge ladder fan m’self.

 

[keith_correa]

Also the rubber surrounds. Initially, its stiff and the cone can't get moving enough. Loosens up a fair bit within an hour or two though to make a "day and night" difference!

Actually, the surround doesn't loosen up much by itself but the spider does. And because the spider does, it seems that the surround has loosened up.

 

[Ebenezer]

It looks like I have opened up highly debatable topic (break in) .

While I cannot prove whether break-in is a fact or just perception, I did hear the bright sound initially and did not hear that brightness after several hours of usage in the same song with the same gears. I am unable to believe that I got adapted to the brightness within a short span of two weeks and what sounded bright sounds smooth within couple of weeks.

 

[mbhangui]

Going by my experience with Denafrips Ares 2 , not a huge ladder fan m’self.

Thanks for the confirmation. I was planning to invest in one. I think I will used the money save and invest in a high power (>200 wpc) AMP.

 

[DB1989]

Thanks for the confirmation. I was planning to invest in one. I think I will used the money save and invest in a high power (>200 wpc) AMP.

Worth an audition nevertheless! Evidently a lot of people like it (perhaps for the wrong reasons but that's a whole 'nother debate). Never say never!

 

[Bloom@83]

Yes , definitely worth a audition. It is possible that the room , and the aluminium ribbon tweeters of the Aurum Cantus speakers didn’t synergise well with the Ares 2.

PS : I hasten to add then when playing LPs from a Technics 1200mk3 the sound was very , very nice from the same Floorstanders ..