"When price is put into perspective, the plasmas such as st50 edge ahead."...................well said!!!
:clapping:
Sony Bravia HX950 Reviews
- Thread starter aks316
- Start date
"When price is put into perspective, the plasmas such as st50 edge ahead."...................well said!!!
:clapping:
avmaxfan
Active Member
Well you gotta respond buddy
Things going to turn ugly ? Not at all.
Why ? Because I wholeheartedly agree with every single word you mentioned :clapping:
Hope this serves as a good example of how both LED and Plasma fans can happily co-exist and argue in a respectful manner
Even OLED sets are going to be much more expensive than plasma flagships.
So keeping the price-performance ratio in mind, Plasma sets are unrivalled and will remain so at least for the next 2-3 years. So taking value into account, the plasma sets do beat the HX950/Sharp Elite.
Sure the plasmas do have their own problems but they provide a great home theater experience to people who are very particular about picture quality.
And special mention to the ST50 - offering true flagship level performance at very affordable price point. As I mentioned already, in a dark room its hard to distingish ST50 from VT50 in a dark room.
And that is phenomenal PQ for the buck. :licklips:
just4kix
Well-Known Member
Thank you, aakash and avmaxfan. I do not blindly support plasma and neither do I play down LED. I endeavour to give unbiased opinion. Sometimes some feel that there is a bias but I can't help that. Amen.
avmaxfan
Active Member
I know. If that wasn't the case this thread would be a battleground now :lol:
As I mentioned already, you are a great member and I don't think anybody can accuse of being biased as you just aren't. Only thing, ignore the trolls and crazy fanboys.
Last edited:
just4kix
Well-Known Member
This particular site describes the TV - not a detailed review as such. The TV exteriors are stunning to say the least. Some thread exists and the OP wants "TV with great exteriors". This could be the answer.
Sony unveils HX950 with Intelligent Peak LED - FlatpanelsHD
No word on the type of 3D glasses. But I suppose that Sony will stick with their IR-sync technology which is a shame because this forces the user to buy those expensive manufacturer-only glasses. But then, if someone is going to spend $3000 for a TV, s/he will not be worried about $50 to $75 for a pair.
Sony unveils HX950 with Intelligent Peak LED - FlatpanelsHD
No word on the type of 3D glasses. But I suppose that Sony will stick with their IR-sync technology which is a shame because this forces the user to buy those expensive manufacturer-only glasses. But then, if someone is going to spend $3000 for a TV, s/he will not be worried about $50 to $75 for a pair.
avmaxfan
Active Member
Yes it's indeed the same IR tech. Though we are not limited to the Sony glasses, there are Xpand and other third party 3D Active Shutter glasses that are compatible.
In fact I agree with you guys - To me, this is not even a debate. I still consider this as an exchange of information. Just like avmaxfan has put his views based on some other forum discussions/reviews, I have also took the information from various other reviews and tests. So let's consider this as sharing of information rather than a debate.
Again I would like to add a point on Kuro vs VT50 based on the revies.
As per one review site, Juro produce black levels of 0.002 cd/m2, where as VT50 produces 0.009 cd/m2. So that is the difference and so kuro is the leader with respect to the black levels. Where as in the other aspects like color depth, shadow details, the Panasonics were/are slightly better than the kuro even around the time when kuro was released. And considering the stop in kuro development, things become easy for others to catch (except for the black levels. In the same breadth, if you compare Panasonics with Samsungs, Panasonic is better than Samsung with respect to the black levels, but when it comes to motion handling, it is the other way. So if one gains on some grounds, it also loses on other grounds.
Let's wait for HX950 :yahoo:
Again I would like to add a point on Kuro vs VT50 based on the revies.
As per one review site, Juro produce black levels of 0.002 cd/m2, where as VT50 produces 0.009 cd/m2. So that is the difference and so kuro is the leader with respect to the black levels. Where as in the other aspects like color depth, shadow details, the Panasonics were/are slightly better than the kuro even around the time when kuro was released. And considering the stop in kuro development, things become easy for others to catch (except for the black levels. In the same breadth, if you compare Panasonics with Samsungs, Panasonic is better than Samsung with respect to the black levels, but when it comes to motion handling, it is the other way. So if one gains on some grounds, it also loses on other grounds.
Let's wait for HX950 :yahoo:
longshanks
Well-Known Member
Yes,in a good television increasing the cell light or back lighting should not effect black levels.Obtaining good blacks by sacrificing panel light does not do any good for contrast.
LCD's tv is marketed as having great light out compared to plasma so if we have to reduce the back lighting and defeat this advantage then whats the use of the bright LCD panel anyways.
So lowering the backlight to obtain good blacks has no use and it only proves that lCD's have unwanted panel brightness which needs to be eliminated.
IF they increase the brightness to max and measure the blacks then that could be questioned but they don that, also they max the back lighting for all brands of LCD's and some were able to produce very good results.
This increasing of back light only proves that give LCD and plasma same treatment but because plasma does not have black lighting it naturally has nothing to worry unlike LCD.
your quote sound a bit childish so i suggest you first read how they perform their tests and then post a meaningful argument why is is flawed.
What on earth makes you believe Cnet is reputed, Cnet reviews are never taken seriously by anyone except for people who don't do much research. Cnet writes good about their sponsors or who ever pay they the dough.
How We Test TVs - TelevisionInfo.com
Last edited:
At least I don't centered my argument bashing a certain brand..
And I only take CNET review as a standard one..don't care if someone disagree with that...
As per television info Panasonic flagship LED WT50 got 8.2 review on basis of poor black level,poor contrast and average color gamut.
While CNET gave it a poor 5.8 ratings on basis of pic quality.
As per television info LG LM7600 got 8.4 rating on basis of great black, moderate contrast ratio...while CNET gave it 7.1 rating on basis of poor screen uniformity and less accurate color.
Television info gave HX850 lower rating than these two models cause it's internet feature are not good although it got very good black and contrast ratio with perfect color accuracy..
And I only take CNET review as a standard one..don't care if someone disagree with that...
As per television info Panasonic flagship LED WT50 got 8.2 review on basis of poor black level,poor contrast and average color gamut.
While CNET gave it a poor 5.8 ratings on basis of pic quality.
As per television info LG LM7600 got 8.4 rating on basis of great black, moderate contrast ratio...while CNET gave it 7.1 rating on basis of poor screen uniformity and less accurate color.
Television info gave HX850 lower rating than these two models cause it's internet feature are not good although it got very good black and contrast ratio with perfect color accuracy..
All lcds need a light source backlight/edgelit light source in order to see the picture.Even projectors work that way.
Well lcds have the potential for high brightness no one is forcing you to watch them at high settings,but at daytime viewing or under ambient light hitting the screen one cannot see the deep black levels even if the tv is switched off.
The high brightness potential also has the capability to defeat glare or see the shadow details under significant ambient light hitting the screen.
As i have been saying from some months now the television info has flawed measuring system,mainly due to measuring of blacks level which is rather high due to max backlight setting.In the case of the Sony its direct LED backlight right behind the screen and are capable of being very bright,some other tvs may have add darker blacks at their max settings but you have to take into account their peak brightness,in the HX950 review the Sony had a black level of 0.10cd/m2 with peak white at 397.9 cd/m2(which is second brightest in that page) where as Sony own HX850 was 0.05cd/m2 with peak white at 360cd/m2.
With local dimming On the HX950 which has a new intelligent peak local dimming mode where it can also dim in areas of black levels and at the same time boost the backlight in areas of bright whites,in this mode activitated it achieves a black level of 0.02cd/m2 and peak white of 404cd/m2 .
Plasma may have nothing to worry about in night time viewing but in daytime viewing their poor brightness isn't going to help.
Further more a plasma due to ABL has to reduce its brightness to nearly a 1/3 its peak brightness in a screen with lots of white or light colored shade or depending on the make and model/region it can also be set to a low brightness to start with from factory that way the brightness will remain the same regardless of the picture.
Further more in 3d the all televisions have a loss in brightness ,but lcds still have a comfortable edge thanks to their high brightness potential.
Lastly as per television info thats their calibrated setting which is at max backlight setting,which no other review site or calibrator does that.
Last edited:
longshanks
Well-Known Member
Nope not all projectors so check your facts before making that kind of a claim.
Yeah so that is why a display with no back lighting such as CRT,OLED or plasma has always been my preference where i don't have to worry about black lighting which needs to be lowered in order for the tv to perform optimally.
you just said that back-lighting has to be adjusted and the panel brightness has to be bought down to low levels to get respectable blacks in LCD so your own earlier claim defeats this quoted comment.
The dynamic back lighting is just a marketing gimmick, every company has one, no matter Samsung or LG or Sony. They all lie in terms of spec.
Contrast ratio (or how every TV manufacturer lies to you) | Crave - CNET
Nice, you know better than television info :clapping:
what telephonist info says :
To measure the black level of the display, we put up an all-black screen in DisplayMate and measure the luminance at the center of the screen, in candelas per square meter (cd/m2). We measure the black level at several times during the testing of the display, then we report on any variance we see with these multiple measurements and we discuss any dynamic backlight or local dimming that the display uses that affect the black level. However, the main figure that we quote is for the black level at our calibrated settings, with the backlight on maximum for LCDs. Our score is based on how dark the black is: the lower the luminance, the higher the score.
The key point is they use black screen(BLACK), so if a dispay will turn black into grey just by turning back light to max(not the brightness) then i guess that display is
I never said all projectors.
In lcds the brightness can be lowered ,even at zero backlight settings its still is has bright as a plasma .
Do you even read what i said,in daytime one cannot see those deep blacks .Take the black measurements in daytime even even if the tvs are switched off ,both plasma and lcds(with local dimming disabled)will have a much higher lighter blacks levels registered in daytime.This is why you see reviews taking black level measurements in a dark room with a black cloth covering the screen.
So in daytime when ambient light hits screen the high brightness potential of lcd can defeat the glare and helps us perceive more shadow details.
A local dimming tvs definitely helps in improving the overall contrast even if it means the effect is not at pixel level.
I didn't remember seeing manufactures now days stating any contrast ratio numbers.
Good local dimming tvs will not switch off the leds if its detects that area has some picture,but it will rather keep the leds switched On or Dim it(and lcds are plenty bright to still show the detail even if they are dimmed).
In the cnets own link they say "If you watch a lot of TV during the day, the brightness of an LED LCD can't be beat".
Nice, you know better than television info :clapping:
what telephonist info says :
To measure the black level of the display, we put up an all-black screen in DisplayMate and measure the luminance at the center of the screen, in candelas per square meter (cd/m2). We measure the black level at several times during the testing of the display, then we report on any variance we see with these multiple measurements and we discuss any dynamic backlight or local dimming that the display uses that affect the black level. However, the main figure that we quote is for the black level at our calibrated settings, with the backlight on maximum for LCDs. Our score is based on how dark the black is: the lower the luminance, the higher the score.
The key point is they use black screen(BLACK), so if a dispay will turn black into grey just by turning back light to max(not the brightness) then i guess that display is
From your own quote info from television info
" To measure the black level of the display, we put up an all-black screen in DisplayMate and measure the luminance at the center of the screen[/B], in candelas per square meter (cd/m2). We measure the black level at several times during the testing of the display,then we report on any variance we see with these multiple measurements and we discuss any dynamic backlight or local dimming that the display uses that affect the black level. However, the main figure that we quote is for the black level at our calibrated settings, with the backlight on maximum for LCDs. Our score is based on how dark the black is: the lower the luminance, the higher the score"
Nice calibrated settings they must have some nice sun glasses to watch at those backlight settings.:clapping:
Last edited:
Is HX950, being an LED-LCD, reaching or exceeding the levels of the top end plasmas ? The answer is both YES and NO. So what it means that is on par with the best plasma VT50 (I am not going to talk about kuro).
I see few posts in this forum which claim HX950 to be in a a different and top class league when compared to VT50 and I also see other posts which seem to pull down a little bit on HX929 and HX950. At first reading, I was getting a feeling that it was about to become a very bad LCD vs Plasma war, but later found that the differences were well accepted among the members and I appreciate that.
Now coming back to the actual subject on whether HX950, though an outstanding set, is truly ahead of any of the best plasmas like VT50 and let me give some thoughts here after I went through hundreds of other websites. At least I found one thing - That is, there are HX950 lovers who try to highlight the VT50 negatives and the VT50 lovers doing the other way (similar to the LCD vs Plasma war). Here are my thoughts and I am not going to dwell more on the well known pros/cons of LED vs Plasma:
1. HX950 being an LCD wll definetly make VT50 jeaolous. Jealous in the context that no one would have expected an LED (barring Sharp Elite) to compete or challenge VT50. Yes - HX950 challenged VT50 purely on the grounds of PQ.
2. Now - what is the result of the challenge ? Is VT50 the clear winner ? The answer is NO. Is HX950 the clear winner ? The answer is again NO. Both had their strengths and weakness in the PQ.
- Full screen black, HX950 the clear winner, but VT50 is closer to that.
- Brightness - ofcourse HX950
- Images involving mixture of both black and whites, VT50 is the winner as VT50 was able to consistenly produce black levels. For example, an image with a view of an night sky with bright stars or - Lavaa errupting and flowing from a volcano eruption . Blooming is still an issue with HX950.
- Now where does HX950 (apart from full black screen) gain advantage in the black levels ? If there are distinct blacks and whites seperated well, then HX950 is the winner in showing inky blacks.
- The too much black level also proves to be a slight disadvantage for HX950. For example, the darker shades gets crushed with more black, but VT50 can show the details more clearly. Again, all these differences are very subtle between VT50 and HX950.
- Colour depth: HX950 and VT50 tied up (some claim VT50 is more natural and HX929 has sparkling colours)
- Motion handling: VT50 only slightly better than HX950.
- 3D - HX950 produces a brighter picture and VT50 is bit dull.
- 3D motion handling: HX950 gives a slight ghost picture and VT50 is better in that aspect.
3. This is the most critical thing. Purely on the grounds of PQ, does the very high price of HX950 deserves any merit when both HX950 and VT50 are on even fields ? The asnwer is NO. While some one can argue that they are ready to pay that extra price to get rid of the irritations that VT50 has (IR, brightness, power consumption, etc). MOst particulary the gamers tend to prefer HX950 for the fear of IR.
4. Finally the conclusins - the differences in the pros/cons of HX950 vs VT50 is very less in a side-by-side comparison. If I have offended any of the HX950 fans or the VT50 fans, please accept my apologies. My intent is to bring in the actual facts so that HX950 is neither abused nor highly exaggrated by anyone.
But my final remark is - HX950 is VT50's envy.
NOTE: My strongest suggestion is not to take the test results from different forum as the only basis and absolute criteria for selecting your HDTV. Of course you can use them as a supporting information in your decision making. Most of the data are taken from the tests which are less likely to replicate the real world scenario. For example, some of the lab conducted motion blur tests may make VT50 better than HX950 in motion handling, but in real world, the HDTVs are not subjected to such tests and so they both perform on par.
I see few posts in this forum which claim HX950 to be in a a different and top class league when compared to VT50 and I also see other posts which seem to pull down a little bit on HX929 and HX950. At first reading, I was getting a feeling that it was about to become a very bad LCD vs Plasma war, but later found that the differences were well accepted among the members and I appreciate that.
Now coming back to the actual subject on whether HX950, though an outstanding set, is truly ahead of any of the best plasmas like VT50 and let me give some thoughts here after I went through hundreds of other websites. At least I found one thing - That is, there are HX950 lovers who try to highlight the VT50 negatives and the VT50 lovers doing the other way (similar to the LCD vs Plasma war). Here are my thoughts and I am not going to dwell more on the well known pros/cons of LED vs Plasma:
1. HX950 being an LCD wll definetly make VT50 jeaolous. Jealous in the context that no one would have expected an LED (barring Sharp Elite) to compete or challenge VT50. Yes - HX950 challenged VT50 purely on the grounds of PQ.
2. Now - what is the result of the challenge ? Is VT50 the clear winner ? The answer is NO. Is HX950 the clear winner ? The answer is again NO. Both had their strengths and weakness in the PQ.
- Full screen black, HX950 the clear winner, but VT50 is closer to that.
- Brightness - ofcourse HX950
- Images involving mixture of both black and whites, VT50 is the winner as VT50 was able to consistenly produce black levels. For example, an image with a view of an night sky with bright stars or - Lavaa errupting and flowing from a volcano eruption . Blooming is still an issue with HX950.
- Now where does HX950 (apart from full black screen) gain advantage in the black levels ? If there are distinct blacks and whites seperated well, then HX950 is the winner in showing inky blacks.
- The too much black level also proves to be a slight disadvantage for HX950. For example, the darker shades gets crushed with more black, but VT50 can show the details more clearly. Again, all these differences are very subtle between VT50 and HX950.
- Colour depth: HX950 and VT50 tied up (some claim VT50 is more natural and HX929 has sparkling colours)
- Motion handling: VT50 only slightly better than HX950.
- 3D - HX950 produces a brighter picture and VT50 is bit dull.
- 3D motion handling: HX950 gives a slight ghost picture and VT50 is better in that aspect.
3. This is the most critical thing. Purely on the grounds of PQ, does the very high price of HX950 deserves any merit when both HX950 and VT50 are on even fields ? The asnwer is NO. While some one can argue that they are ready to pay that extra price to get rid of the irritations that VT50 has (IR, brightness, power consumption, etc). MOst particulary the gamers tend to prefer HX950 for the fear of IR.
4. Finally the conclusins - the differences in the pros/cons of HX950 vs VT50 is very less in a side-by-side comparison. If I have offended any of the HX950 fans or the VT50 fans, please accept my apologies. My intent is to bring in the actual facts so that HX950 is neither abused nor highly exaggrated by anyone.
But my final remark is - HX950 is VT50's envy.
NOTE: My strongest suggestion is not to take the test results from different forum as the only basis and absolute criteria for selecting your HDTV. Of course you can use them as a supporting information in your decision making. Most of the data are taken from the tests which are less likely to replicate the real world scenario. For example, some of the lab conducted motion blur tests may make VT50 better than HX950 in motion handling, but in real world, the HDTVs are not subjected to such tests and so they both perform on par.
Last edited:
Adding a couple of more points on HX950 vs Sharp Elite.
- Black levels in images with mixed colurs (white and black) - Sharp Elite is better (it doesn't have or lesser blooming effect)
- Coloour depth: Initial reviews say HX950 to be better.
- Black levels in images with mixed colurs (white and black) - Sharp Elite is better (it doesn't have or lesser blooming effect)
- Coloour depth: Initial reviews say HX950 to be better.
longshanks
Well-Known Member
The key point is they use black screen(BLACK), so if a dispay will turn black into grey just by turning back light to max(not the brightness) then i guess that display is
I am not if you are being so ignorant about the important point that i put in bold or you again miss reading the post but always reply.
They said they display a black screen when set to max back lighting so if one needs sun glasses to watch a black screen in an lcd set in max black lighting i will not touch that TV with a barge pole.:lol:
This setting was only when measuring blacks and no where they said they measure all picture parameter using max back light, oh wait, you don't bother to read everything you just read random words and try to encrypt the your own prophecy out of the same. Well, best of luck
None of 2012 Sony LCD's were even considered in value electronics 2012 shoot out and that speaks a lot.
just4kix
Well-Known Member
Is a Mercedes better than a bmw our vice versa? Is a Maybach better than an RR? :banghead:
Sent from my GT-I9100G using Tapatalk 2
Sent from my GT-I9100G using Tapatalk 2
avmaxfan
Active Member
Longshanks, People are not dumb you see, you think if you say so people will beleive that HX850 is worse than ES8000 and Pana WT50?
There is no review site in the world that agrees with you. Everyone knows the HX850 is the best LCD TV of the year and comes close to matching the top end plasmas.
Dont try to prove your opinion as facts here. You speak only out of hatred as if Sony burnt your home.
Really pathetic to see your hate posts over and over again. I suggest you create a blog and post all anti sony articles and opinions there.
Dont post all that here. And you also proved how mature you are by ruining this thread with your useless posts.
I hope not to see any more posts from you here or else I'll have to report you to site admin. This forum is not a place to vent out your frustration with the brand Sony.
Wish you had learnt from the example set in this thread here where people with different brand/tech preference were having a healthy argument respecting each others opinions.
Sent from my Sony Xperia S using Tapatalk
There is no review site in the world that agrees with you. Everyone knows the HX850 is the best LCD TV of the year and comes close to matching the top end plasmas.
Dont try to prove your opinion as facts here. You speak only out of hatred as if Sony burnt your home.
Really pathetic to see your hate posts over and over again. I suggest you create a blog and post all anti sony articles and opinions there.
Dont post all that here. And you also proved how mature you are by ruining this thread with your useless posts.
I hope not to see any more posts from you here or else I'll have to report you to site admin. This forum is not a place to vent out your frustration with the brand Sony.
Wish you had learnt from the example set in this thread here where people with different brand/tech preference were having a healthy argument respecting each others opinions.
Sent from my Sony Xperia S using Tapatalk
Last edited:
I am not if you are being so ignorant about the important point that i put in bold or you again miss reading the post but always reply.
They said they display a black screen when set to max back lighting so if one needs sun glasses to watch a black screen in an lcd set in max black lighting i will not touch that TV with a barge pole.:lol:
This setting was only when measuring blacks and no where they said they measure all picture parameter using max back light, oh wait, you don't bother to read everything you just read random words and try to encrypt the your own prophecy out of the same. Well, best of luck
Well what i am saying is that there so called calibrated settings are with max backlight settings and measurement taken are with max backlight setting.Sure you don't need sun glasses for all black screen but what about when watching anything else in max backlight settings.
Value electronics didn't consider the HX929 in 2012 shootout because its a 2011 lcd,what the owner of that store said was the other 2012 tvs have improved over the 2011 HX929.But if look at the scores from both the shoot outs the old HX929 which was the second best lcd in their 2011 shootout vs the scores of 2012 shoot out you will still see that it has the edge in most parameters compared to the lcd competition except the Sharp elite.
Oh right :clapping: how could we not miss your original intention in this thread which everyone here knows ,for those who don't know this person has said here in this very forum "i hate Sony" ,calls Sony "fony" in another forum and most of his posts on any threads that has a Sony products are pure anti sony/bashing posts.
avmaxfan
Active Member
Absolutely true adder, wonder why he even bothers if he hates Sony so much.
Who will even take him seriously with such posts. The fact that he even thought of posting that the ES8000 is much better than HX850 tells you what his intention is.
I am sure no senior member will even try to argue against HX850's PQ except for our sony hater longshanks
Sent from my Sony Xperia S using Tapatalk
Who will even take him seriously with such posts. The fact that he even thought of posting that the ES8000 is much better than HX850 tells you what his intention is.
I am sure no senior member will even try to argue against HX850's PQ except for our sony hater longshanks
Sent from my Sony Xperia S using Tapatalk
longshanks
Well-Known Member
I am not sure why you are speaking about HX850 in a HX950 reviewed by televisioninfo.com thread, oh well you are a Sony fan you are supposed to be so brilliant that model numbers don't make sense to you.
Every TV model on earth is HX850 every brand on earth Sony, oh let me go open my HX850 fridge and get you some orange juice :lol:
Eh? where did i speak of HX929? i spoke of Sony not being added in 2012 meaning Sony models of 2012 so where did the idea of a 2011 LCD come from?
lol people imagine a lot and come up with replies to imaginary info i never posted in my thread.:lol:
I posed here only because television info method was questioned and now the Sony disciples are making twisting this into a Sony worship vs hate thread.
The fact that he even thought of posting that the ES8000 is much better than HX850 tells you what his intention is.
I am sure no senior member will even try to argue against HX850's PQ except for our sony hater longshanks
lol ! you keep posting about HX850 in a HX950 thread, wake up and read the op.:lol:
ah now i see whats the problem is, you are sending from Sony Xperia S, next time try sending from a proper smart phone like the iPhone.
Last edited:
Get the Wharfedale EVO 4.2 3-Way Standmount Speakers at a Special Offer Price.
