Soundstage in pure direct not so good

Audiolab 6000A Integrated Amplifier
rpmahale said:
It is true that nowadays AVRs are loosing build quality and gaining more technology . Build quality, Power supply etc are the only place where compromise can be done to survive in market. Major mid to high end pre -HDMI AVRs were build like a tank and had very good stereo performance. Manufacturers find it difficult to induct technical advancements in their products within the mentioned price range. Build quality and amplification quality gets greatly compromised in advancement of technology. Still manufacturers trying to balance the best between sound quality, build quality and feature. Expecting similar price IA stereo performance from techanologically advanced AVR is a bit unfair . As we grow in av field these shortcomings of avr becomes more clear and we start a search for better equipment. Still manufacturers are making analog amplifier or separate pre-pro without any feature with prime object of just sound quality.
Click to expand...
Earlier, emphasis would be on the Amplifier's build quality.
Now the importance generally is for the software over the hardware & what features are programmed in a receiver especially in the low and mid level. How effectively does it control the hardware.
In a way the synergy is good as long as the quality of hardware and software are maintained & work in tandem..
 
I am not so much into multi channel but if good sound is what you are after, I have a few suggestions based on what I have seen and experienced so far. Step by step.


  1. Remove the subwoofer connection for the time being. We can address bass in the last step.
  2. Those speakers seem to be setup completely wrong. They are rear ported and not meant to be wall mounted. Wall mount speakers are created keeping in mind different design criteria including using the wall for balancing out freq response. All three of them need to be on good stands. The L and R needs to be atleast 1.5 ft into the room. The tweeter should be at ear height while you sit. Once you get that done, fine tune the placement of the L and R speakers by getting a friend to move the speakers while you sit and listen in your chair. Once you get the sound you prefer, you may have to work with some compromises based on your home situation. End of the day, achieve a placement that is a balance between sound quality and convenience. Do all this while playing some well recorded music in pure direct mode. The most important thing to remember is that when you sign off at this stage, you should be satisfied with the sound that you get from ( only ) your L and R speakers in your room while playing your favorite music. Address room treatment needs like rugs, furniture, bookshelf with books, curtains, first reflection points etc.. This is a bare minimum requirement. This is the foundation from which you build upon. If you screw up here, everything else you do will be a total mess.
  3. Now connect only your subwoofer to to make it 2.1 or 2.2 if you have 2 subs. Do a sweep of the room to figure out frequency anomalies. Address those issues. Please look up youtube video for setting up and integrating subwoofers into a music / ht environment. End of the day, the subwoofer/s should not call attention to itself. While playing music, your bookshelf speakers should sound as if they are big understanding speakers. Bass should sound balanced and clean. The subs you have should be able to do that. It is just a setup issue that needs to be addressed.
  4. Now, connect your centre and rear speakers and test your home theatre with some test tracks. Fine tune sub volume if need be to suit HT requirements. Fine tune rear and centre speaker placement to suit HT requirements.
You should be all set now.
 
square_wave said:
I am not so much into multi channel but if good sound is what you are after, I have a few suggestions based on what I have seen and experienced so far. Step by step.


  1. Remove the subwoofer connection for the time being. We can address bass in the last step.
  2. Those speakers seem to be setup completely wrong. They are rear ported and not meant to be wall mounted. Wall mount speakers are created keeping in mind different design criteria including using the wall for balancing out freq response. All three of them need to be on good stands. The L and R needs to be atleast 1.5 ft into the room. The tweeter should be at ear height while you sit. Once you get that done, fine tune the placement of the L and R speakers by getting a friend to move the speakers while you sit and listen in your chair. Once you get the sound you prefer, you may have to work with some compromises based on your home situation. End of the day, achieve a placement that is a balance between sound quality and convenience. Do all this while playing some well recorded music in pure direct mode. The most important thing to remember is that when you sign off at this stage, you should be satisfied with the sound that you get from ( only ) your L and R speakers in your room while playing your favorite music. Address room treatment needs like rugs, furniture, bookshelf with books, curtains, first reflection points etc.. This is a bare minimum requirement. This is the foundation from which you build upon. If you screw up here, everything else you do will be a total mess.
  3. Now connect only your subwoofer to to make it 2.1 or 2.2 if you have 2 subs. Do a sweep of the room to figure out frequency anomalies. Address those issues. Please look up youtube video for setting up and integrating subwoofers into a music / ht environment. End of the day, the subwoofer/s should not call attention to itself. While playing music, your bookshelf speakers should sound as if they are big understanding speakers. Bass should sound balanced and clean. The subs you have should be able to do that. It is just a setup issue that needs to be addressed.
  4. Now, connect your centre and rear speakers and test your home theatre with some test tracks. Fine tune sub volume if need be to suit HT requirements. Fine tune rear and centre speaker placement to suit HT requirements.
You should be all set now.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your inputs but I don’t have any other option then wall mounting them. And bass sounding muddy has nothing to do with subwoofer as I have mentioned the issue is only when I play music in pure direct with the sub disabled. And also I didn’t have this issue before l installed a 65 inch tv and installing the speakers few inches apart to provide space for the 65 inch tv.
 
Love4sound said:
Thanks for your inputs but I don’t have any other option then wall mounting them. And bass sounding muddy has nothing to do with subwoofer as I have mentioned the issue is only when I play music in pure direct with the sub disabled. And also I didn’t have this issue before l installed a 65 inch tv and installing the speakers few inches apart to provide space for the 65 inch tv.
Click to expand...

Technically speaking, those speakers should not sound muddy if they are setup right. If you liked the way it sounded on the wall before the 65 inch came in, the frequency balance, reflection parameters have changed now for the worse due to new placement.
 
square_wave said:
Technically speaking, those speakers should not sound muddy if they are setup right. If you liked the way it sounded on the wall before the 65 inch came in, the frequency balance, reflection parameters have changed now for the worse due to new placement.
Click to expand...
Yes and also the speakers had enough space around them when I had a 43 inch tv. Now with the 65 inch they almost kiss the tv. While watching movies I don’t have any issues with the z3.
 
Can you borrow a normal stereo amp from someone and test to see how the speakers sound ? Use decent cables while you do it.
 
square_wave said:
Can you borrow a normal stereo amp from someone and test to see how the speakers sound ? Use decent cables while you do it.
Click to expand...
Yeah I can try. For now I have made peace with it for now and not going to touch anything in the set up. Will use it as it is for few years and once my daughter grows up I’ll plan a different set up.
 
Well finally after so much of testing I finally got the soundstage to almost as good as before in pure direct mode.I have enabled 2ch playback settings and have set the fronts to large, crossovers to 120 and sw mode to LFE+main.
 
Being a former Sony HI-Fi owner, I felt the need to post in this thread. Might be a long post so readers beware.

My journey into amplifiers and speakers started 35 years back when a good friend passionate on the subject convinced me to let him put together a stereo setup for me. Had to beg my dad to finance the project. Finally convinced dad and thus the project started with him showing me diagrams of stuff that I did not understand. This was the first time I was hearing words like Woofer, Tweeter, super-tweeter (yes we had them back in the days) etc.
To cut a long story short, Philips dome tweeter with it's own amp, some 8 inch woofer with it's own amp connected to a sony cassette player.

My initial impressions, Wow !! what treble.. Not a lot of bass though but the treble was enough to bring my friends over to show off my system.

A few years down the line, I came across a Sony 1500 watt PMPO system in a shop in town and I was blow away by the sound and power produced by this unit. It as a sub given away free with it. Price - 35,000 rupees. I had just started working so I could now afford to buy this. I was mighty impressed with this system. It even had surround sound.

I had another friend who was making speakers as a business on the side. Upgrade bug had hit me and I wanted speakers with larger drivers. So, I told him to made a pair of speakers for me with at least 10 inch drivers. I told him about my 5 inch sony sub and he laughed.

What he told me I will never forget. He said, don't get into this Hi-Fi world. You will never stop upgrading. You will never be satisfied. Be happy with your sony !!!!

Nonetheless, purchased a pair of speakers from him with a 10 inch woofer as was my requirement. Connected it to my sony amp. Oh my, the music was different. I was hearing quite a bit of mid-range :) Something that the sony speakers lacked. Somebody said, boom boom tich tich. Well that was Sony.

A few years down the line, I purchased a pair of Quad 12L2 bookshelf speakers for around 40 odd thousand. Now these tiny speakers sounded similar but more refined than my massive floor standing speakers with 10 inch drivers. I was amazed at the tech involved and the quality of the drivers and the crossovers. Even with my sony amp these were sounding wonderful.

Lizard got into sony amp and it blew. In came Topping TP60. Yes the chip amp that was put down in quite a few threads in the forum :) Again, wonderful sound when played within its limits.

The point I am trying to make is that, this audiophile hobby is a journey. At one point in time, we will think that what we own is the best there is. As we grow older and as our tastes in music also grows, a time will come when boom boom tich tich will not do it any more. And if we ever get caught in the chase, as most of us in this forum are, god save us all :)
 
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Hello Hello slow down guys.
Every one has different taste .
If Asthetic is important let us not discuss about the quality money spent on the product.
Please don't use the word ugly when other sees as glamour.
I am one of them.See my Avataar
Let me google and see how the sony 9200 looks which I never heard about the model .
Cool.
 
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This thread will make us forum members a laughing stock all over the world.
Because it will stay on the internet till this forum exists unless some action is taken.

I just want to ask that someone who hates AVR's is that if they are the shittiest piece of electronics with shittiest software what different tech does that sony equipment have? It also has an amplifier and maybe a decoder

Something developed and produced in mars ? Which sony uses it only in this model and none of its AVR's
 
I faced similar kind of issue today but with Dolby digital. When I tried to play a 4k 5.1 Dolby movie from laptop. I was getting flat base and when I changed the sound output on laptop to Dolby digital everything sounded perfect.

If your playing from the laptop then try to play with the laptop sound settings.
 
Thought of following thread by selecting watch.

Can be praised the lovable brand but try to avoid words like shitty,crap,waste,elephant,old tape recorder and all.

Planning to hide my Marantz

Now I selected unwatch this thread ....ufff.
 
Michelangalo said:
I faced similar kind of issue today but with Dolby digital. When I tried to play a 4k 5.1 Dolby movie from laptop. I was getting flat base and when I changed the sound output on laptop to Dolby digital everything sounded perfect.

If your playing from the laptop then try to play with the laptop sound settings.
Click to expand...
I don’t use laptop. For music I use AirPlay on my iPhone. I have done various tests and concluded that the issue is indeed after installing the 65 inch tv and moving the LR apart by few inches. This change has a huge impact in the sound stage even while watching movies.
 
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