Speaker cables - Bare copper vs. tinned copper

[amrutmhatre90]

Hi

Reading this thread I picked up the Belden 8477. The wire is 12 gauge and fits bare with the KEF speakers but not the Rotel. Can I cut a few strands to fit the Rotel or do I need to switch to new banana plugs or 14 gauge cables
Thanks

try to get Banana Plugs if possible, these are very thick and hard wires.

I got some banana plugs for these wires, but unfortunately I had a Akai AM 2850 vintage amp which had old school speaker binding posts, had to cut a few strands to accommodate it.

Make sure you cut them properly and strands do not touch other places before going with banana plugs.

 

[Amarendra]

try to get Banana Plugs if possible, these are very thick and hard wires.

I got some banana plugs for these wires, but unfortunately I had a Akai AM 2850 vintage amp which had old school speaker binding posts, had to cut a few strands to accommodate it.

Make sure you cut them properly and strands do not touch other places before going with banana plugs.

Managed to get the wires into some Amazon banana dead bolt type plugs. Sound definitely seems different. With the KEFs I find some top end sparkle gone and the bass also a bit more tightened rather than bloated. Let’s see -too early to speak. But there is definitely restraint in some quarters - though can’t pin point yet. It’s not better or worse but I can listen for longer than earlier.

 

[amrutmhatre90]

Managed to get the wires into some Amazon banana dead bolt type plugs. Sound definitely seems different. With the KEFs I find some top end sparkle gone and the bass also a bit more tightened rather than bloated. Let’s see -too early to speak. But there is definitely restraint in some quarters - though can’t pin point yet. It’s not better or worse but I can listen for longer than earlier.

Yes, these are a bit softer and easy on ears.
Give it some time to burn in, you will like them.

My main system runs on these and some flat type speaker cables.

 

[Amarendra]

I find the new sound addictive. Honestly I was always a skeptic as far as speaker cables were concerned but this is something else. Thanks to forum members- Prem, Nikhil, Fiftyfifty and the rest for contributing.

 

[amrutmhatre90]

I find the new sound addictive. Honestly I was always a skeptic as far as speaker cables were concerned but this is something else. Thanks to forum members- Prem, Nikhil, Fiftyfifty and the rest for contributing.

Belden 8477?

 

[Amarendra]

Belden 8477?

Yes Belden 8477 vs DAC copper cables

 

[prem]

See if you can use the Belden 8477 bare. Avoid spades and bananas.

You can solder only the ends of the wire if needed so that the strands don’t loosen.

At the amp end you can cut a few strands to enable the wire to go into the binding post. Make sure you cut the same number of strands on both the left and right cable

 

[Amarendra]

See if you can use the Belden 8477 bare. Avoid spades and bananas.

You can solder only the ends of the wire if needed so that the strands don’t loosen.

At the amp end you can cut a few strands to enable the wire to go into the binding post. Make sure you cut the same number of strands on both the left and right cable

Thanks, I always used to cut strands randomly- some of them fell off usually while attaching banana plugs or carelessly removing the wire cover LOL.

 

[Amarendra]

See if you can use the Belden 8477 bare. Avoid spades and bananas.

You can solder only the ends of the wire if needed so that the strands don’t loosen.

At the amp end you can cut a few strands to enable the wire to go into the binding post. Make sure you cut the same number of strands on both the left and right cable

I had a related question- why do you advise on removing spades/ banana plugs since the wire is always in touch with so many things before/after carrying the current - example we have no control on the speaker terminals (could be any metal) or the amp terminals (again metal). Even within the amp/ speaker the terminal is connected to the internal electronics / cross overs which could be made of different metals/quality ? I understand the wire being of a different thickness (gauge) making an impact but when so many variables are involved does the metal of the wire itself matter?

 

[prem]

With tinned copper wires, you can go direct because it won’t oxidise. Whenever possible it’s best to go with minimal connections. That’s been my experience. With copper wires you can’t go direct because it oxidises.

 

[spirovious]

Tinnes copper cables can sound sharp with certain speakers. Bass response is good but top frequencies can be edgy.

 

[Amarendra]

Tinnes copper cables can sound sharp with certain speakers. Bass response is good but top frequencies can be edgy.

I was skeptical for the same reason- particularly when using with KEF LS50 Metas, but the result is quite the opposite. The top end has mellowed making it possible to listen for very long without fatigue.

 

[amrutmhatre90]

I was skeptical for the same reason- particularly when using with KEF LS50 Metas, but the result is quite the opposite. The top end has mellowed making it possible to listen for very long without fatigue.

Same was evident for me with a very harsh sounding old vintage Akai speaker. Just swapped with Belden and the speaker was listenable.

8477 is a VFM speaker cable, one has to try this once. And best part is it won't break your bank.

Even after trying multiple speaker cables, I still have this running in my main system.

 

[Amarendra]

Same was evident for me with a very harsh sounding old vintage Akai speaker. Just swapped with Belden and the speaker was listenable.

8477 is a VFM speaker cable, one has to try this once. And best part is it won't break your bank.

Even after trying multiple speaker cables, I still have this running in my main system.

In fact I liked the sound so much that I ended up watching Jawan (Netflix) in stereo . Never thought stereo would carry so much of the movie- clear crisp dialogues, large open (no holds barred) sound. Atleast twice the KEFs rattled the glass pane behind me. Want to avoid that with KEFs hence added a sub with the minidsp HD to route 80Hz and below to sub. I wish someone made an AVR which sounded as open and large like this. Whats unbelievable is the dialogue texture- neither of my AVRs (Marantz/Pioneer/Denon) have given this kind of clarity.

 

[muralimmreddy]

Been quite happy with duelund 12awg, time to try out

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Trying new 10awg duelund as speaker cable. Low end is more articulate compared to 12 and 16awg. Midrange and HF is sounds same at the moment.

 

[greendream]

I know there are a lot of Belden 8477 fans here, but I tend to agree that in some systems, like mine, they can tend to sound a bit congested. This is why I moved from tinned copper to bare copper. In my system, bare copper cables like Eurocable and Klotz sound cleaner and more transparent. I do not have any experience with Murthy's cables. There are so many variables affecting what one hears - source, speakers, cables, room, etc., etc., that it would be unfair to say that one of these cables is better or worse than another. However, all these cables - Belden, Klotz, Eurocable, Murthy's Joshua's, Mogami, challenge the big boys and give us the opportunity, if so inclined, to try them all and compare for oneself, in a cost effective manner.

What 12 awg cable would you suggest, my setup being a Nad c350 amplifier and Dali Zensor 3 speakers. As sound signature is warmish, I was wondering whether Belden 8477 might not be appropriate. Currently am using 14 awg dac ofc cable. I don't use any spades or connectors and don't mind removing oxidised part periodically.

 

[Fiftyfifty]

What 12 awg cable would you suggest, my setup being a Nad c350 amplifier and Dali Zensor 3 speakers. As sound signature is warmish, I was wondering whether Belden 8477 might not be appropriate. Currently am using 14 awg dac ofc cable. I don't use any spades or connectors and don't mind removing oxidised part periodically.

Difficult to say @greendream as there are so many variables. NAD amps are indeed warm. Maybe first try repositioning the speakers. See if you can get a pair of Joshua's speaker cables. If not, Belden 8477 works for most people. As cables like Belden, Klotz, etc, are relatively inexpensive, there's scope to experiment and arrive at the sq of your preference.

Best wishes

 

[Nikhil]

What 12 awg cable would you suggest, my setup being a Nad c350 amplifier and Dali Zensor 3 speakers. As sound signature is warmish, I was wondering whether Belden 8477 might not be appropriate. Currently am using 14 awg dac ofc cable. I don't use any spades or connectors and don't mind removing oxidised part periodically.

I would suggest trying out the Belden 8471. Its the same cable as the 8477 but is the 16 awg version.
In terms of sound it is a little quicker and leaner but still has the same traits as the 8477.


.

 

[greendream]

Difficult to say @greendream as there are so many variables. NAD amps are indeed warm. Maybe first try repositioning the speakers. See if you can get a pair of Joshua's speaker cables. If not, Belden 8477 works for most people. As cables like Belden, Klotz, etc, are relatively inexpensive, there's scope to experiment and arrive at the sq of your preference.

Best wishes

Thank you. Shall contact kiransales. Please provide Klotz and eurocable model numbers for 12awg.

I would suggest trying out the Belden 8471. Its the same cable as the 8477 but is the 16 awg version.
In terms of sound it is a little quicker and leaner but still has the same traits as the 8477.


.

Thanks for the suggestion. Was your recommendation of belden 8471 based on my Nad amplifier+ Dali Zensor combination?

 

[Fiftyfifty]

Klotz LY215S is 1.5 mm² and LY225S is 2.5 mm². I'm not sure of the Eurocable models but Kiransales can guide you