Speaker cables - Bare copper vs. tinned copper

[AKT]

Mr Murthy's cables are much better made. Overall tone is more neutral, slightly leaner than Belden 8477 but more open and detailed with a wider soundstage. Belden 8477 seems a little congested in comparison.

My system (accuphase e-260 + linton) is overall balanced in character with added luster to midrange (due to lintons). I am not looking at adding any more mid-range warmth but a tad bit overall warmth is not a bad thing in my books. However, I am concerned that Belden 8477 curtails openness and detail. Do you have a third suggestion?

-I shall move this to another thread if the discussion stretches-

 

[rikhav]

My system (accuphase e-260 + linton) is overall or in character with added luster to midrange (due to lintons). I am not looking at adding any more mid-range warmth but a tad bit overall warmth is not a bad thing in my books. However, I am concerned that Belden 8477 curtails openness and detail. Do you have a third suggestion?

-I shall move this to another thread if the discussion stretches-

For me belden 8471 or 8477 was never a bottleneck for details or openness in sound

 

[shyamv]

My system (accuphase e-260 + linton) is overall balanced in character with added luster to midrange (due to lintons). I am not looking at adding any more mid-range warmth but a tad bit overall warmth is not a bad thing in my books. However, I am concerned that Belden 8477 curtails openness and detail. Do you have a third suggestion?

-I shall move this to another thread if the discussion stretches-

I am not saying that Belden 8477 is not open or detailed at all in absolute terms. It is not so in comparison to Mr M's speaker cables. If one compares M's cables with more expensive ones from Audioquest, Van Der Hul, Supra, QED, Chord etc that the former would seem significantly less resolving or detailed. Everything is relative!

 

[Fiftyfifty]

Firstly, Mr Murthy's speaker cables are twice the price of Belden 8477. So it might not be a fair comparison. Belden 8477 is excellent value for money but is not neutral by any means. It sounds more richer and full tonally and slightly tiltled both at the lower and higher frequencies. Mr Murthy's cables are much better made. Overall tone is more neutral, slightly leaner than Belden 8477 but more open and detailed with a wider soundstage. Belden 8477 seems a little congested in comparison.

At the end it boils down to the partnering equipment. If you have an analytical and cold-sounding setup, then Belden 8477 might infuse some fullness to the setup. I wouldn't recommend Mr Murthy's cable for such a setup. It is more ideal for neutral to warmish kind of partnering equipment.

Just a caveat. Mr Murthy's cables are a new buy and haven't been burned in yet. Not sure if the presentation would change significantly.

I know there are a lot of Belden 8477 fans here, but I tend to agree that in some systems, like mine, they can tend to sound a bit congested. This is why I moved from tinned copper to bare copper. In my system, bare copper cables like Eurocable and Klotz sound cleaner and more transparent. I do not have any experience with Murthy's cables. There are so many variables affecting what one hears - source, speakers, cables, room, etc., etc., that it would be unfair to say that one of these cables is better or worse than another. However, all these cables - Belden, Klotz, Eurocable, Murthy's Joshua's, Mogami, challenge the big boys and give us the opportunity, if so inclined, to try them all and compare for oneself, in a cost effective manner.

 

[shyamv]

Can't agree more. Every single one of these cables is tremendous value for money and gives us a chance to try something new in one's system for a very small amount of money.

 

[AKT]

@Prodigy lent me his Belden 8477 cables. Thank you Som. I compared it with with Mr. Murthy's cables using A/B speaker terminals on my amp. It took almost 30 seconds or so to switch cables at the speaker end each time. Both were bare wires with no plugs or spades. Here are my brief observations.

I tested using two songs (both 16/44 FLACs) played via Roon into Digione Signature with a DIY LPS.

a) Patricia Barber - Black Magic Woman (Female vocals with a busy and imposing percussion at the end)
b) Gregory Porter - Hey Laura (Slightly raspy clean male vocal with a hint of subtle bass throughout)

Before burn-in, M's cables sounded thin for both songs while Belden was fuller. M's cables appeared to have a better top end but considering I really do not have golden ears, it could be a prejudice due to all the reading on this thread!

After 20-30 hrs of burn-in for both cables, I called three neighbors to help me test. One of them slept off on the couch and another one lost interest midway! So remaining two of us went into the battle...
M's cables had improved significantly. very nice! Belden remained the same, as great as before.
Mr. Porter sounded the same to both of us auditioners while Ms. Barber definitely sounded fuller with Beldens.

I am not much experienced in this trade so my observations (and same for my neighbor) must be very subjective. I however have decided to go with Belden 8477 with my setup considering similar sound quality but a wide price difference.

Thank you.

 

[VSTEREO]

Been using 8477 for six months and it is an excellent cable. Thanks eabhishek for A/B. Feeling pity for the one who slept.

 

[irv]

Been using 8477 for six months and it is an excellent cable. Thanks eabhishek for A/B. Feeling pity for the one who slept.

Where can I buy belden 8477? Available online??

 

[Ramanuj]

I had used tin coated copper cables from Chord .... Leyline cheap good but the highs were brittle and didn't have as much body. Shifted to all copper , smoother sound , regained the lost weight (not bad in this case!) but lost the highs. Finally after a lot of research found QED Genesis Silver Spirals, happily settled with a pair now. These cables are brilliant. Construction comes from research and the research was as extensive as it could get for cables so much so that they have papers of that particular research called The Genesis Report available for reference!

https://www.qed.co.uk/qed-genesis-silver-spiral-cable.html#tab1

 

[Hari Iyer]

I had used tin coated copper cables from Chord .... Leyline cheap good but the highs were brittle and didn't have as much body. Shifted to all copper , smoother sound , regained the lost weight (not bad in this case!) but lost the highs. Finally after a lot of research found QED Genesis Silver Spirals, happily settled with a pair now. These cables are brilliant. Construction comes from research and the research was as extensive as it could get for cables so much so that they have papers of that particular research called The Genesis Report available for reference!

https://www.qed.co.uk/qed-genesis-silver-spiral-cable.html#tab1

Not all silver plated copper wire are same as discovered by me. Try using mil spec silver plated copper wire. Using simple copper wire you won't go much wrong unlike silver plated copper. I have atleast 5 to 6 different type of silver plated copper and all of them sound different.

Recently I have graduated to using gold plated solid silver wire for my Amplifier internal signal wire and achieved Nirvana.

 

[Ramanuj]

Not all silver plated copper wire are same as discovered by me. Try using mil spec silver plated copper wire. Using simple copper wire you won't go much wrong unlike silver plated copper. I have atleast 5 to 6 different type of silver plated copper and all of them sound different.

Recently I have graduated to using gold plated solid silver wire for my Amplifier internal signal wire and achieved Nirvana.

You are correct in saying that all silver plated wires are not equal. The inductance , capacitance all differs from wire to wire and the insulation that is being used the dielectric etc etc. I have seen most manufacturers use different gauges of silver wire with different insulations. Now what happens the larger the cross sectional area of the wire the bigger the skin effect and the corresponding issues. I was using a Chord Epic which was prone to this very problem and the teflon used was to counter this effect. QED has a far better approach than most manufacturers where they use multiple smaller C-SA conductors to reach the desired C-SA awg twisted over plastic tube eliminating EMF and the skin effect in a very clever way. This very geometry is what spiked my interest to check this cable out and I absolutely loved it in my system. I believe cables are very system dependent and a universal judgement for any cable should be taken with a pinch of salt, what sounds good in my system might sound exactly the opposite in another.

 

[Hari Iyer]

You are correct in saying that all silver plated wires are not equal. The inductance , capacitance all differs from wire to wire and the insulation that is being used the dielectric etc etc. I have seen most manufacturers use different gauges of silver wire with different insulations. Now what happens the larger the cross sectional area of the wire the bigger the skin effect and the corresponding issues. I was using a Chord Epic which was prone to this very problem and the teflon used was to counter this effect. QED has a far better approach than most manufacturers where they use multiple smaller C-SA conductors to reach the desired C-SA awg twisted over plastic tube eliminating EMF and the skin effect in a very clever way. This very geometry is what spiked my interest to check this cable out and I absolutely loved it in my system. I believe cables are very system dependent and a universal judgement for any cable should be taken with a pinch of salt, what sounds good in my system might sound exactly the opposite in another.

+1 and spot-on. With amplifier internal wiring, try to be within 22 awg and if using stranded or copper wire, they need to be soft wires and not hard. Also when using DIY interconnect the wires should soft as they tend to be brighter if hard IME.

 

[Nikhil]

Anyway, this thread is about the material used in speaker wires and it will be meaningful if all members stick to that question.

Agreed 100%. Folks can we get this thread back on topic.
All posts not on topic has been hived off into a separate discussion here.



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[muralimmreddy]

Any opinion on duelund 12awg vs belden 8477 both tinned copper. I have tried both with harbeths and a SET amp. Belden sounds richer relativley, though duelund seems to get more attention

 

[raj12345]

Any opinion on duelund 12awg vs belden 8477 both tinned copper. I have tried both with harbeths and a SET amp. Belden sounds richer relativley, though duelund seems to get more attention

Omg what are you saying I cannot believe as price difference is quite big among both.

 

[Amanda01]

Bare copper is the best for me

 

[corElement]

I switched from pure ofc copper to tinned ofc copper and I found the sound to be superior, more body, little bit more texture, darker background.

 

[Nikhil]

Any opinion on duelund 12awg vs belden 8477 both tinned copper. I have tried both with harbeths and a SET amp. Belden sounds richer relativley, though duelund seems to get more attention

The Duelund has a brutal breaking in cycle. Swings can be quite drastic but settles down after 200 hrs or so. It's been a while since I had it in my setup but I remember them being a real difficult cable at times during the break in. I attributed the behavior to the cable construction - it was made as a Western Electric replica. The calling card of the cable is a vintage tone based on the original WE 12 GA.

The Belden has a far more balanced behavior in contrast. Has a very pleasant warm sound almost from day one. Has almost all the characteristics of the Duelund without the hassle IMO.


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[muralimmreddy]

The Duelund has a brutal breaking in cycle. Swings can be quite drastic but settles down after 200 hrs or so. It's been a while since I had it in my setup but I remember them being a real difficult cable at times during the break in. I attributed the behavior to the cable construction - it was made as a Western Electric replica. The calling card of the cable is a vintage tone based on the original WE 12 GA.

The Belden has a far more balanced behavior in contrast. Has a very pleasant warm sound almost from day one. Has almost all the characteristics of the Duelund without the hassle IMO.


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Thanks for sharing your experience. I am happily settled with Duelund's now. Thanks to this thread and original Jeff Day's original blog referred in here, i use belden interconnect as well this combination replaced much more expensive tellurium black-ii cables.

For the price belden 8477 is of insane value.

 

[Amarendra]

Hi

Reading this thread I picked up the Belden 8477. The wire is 12 gauge and fits bare with the KEF speakers but not the Rotel. Can I cut a few strands to fit the Rotel or do I need to switch to new banana plugs or 14 gauge cables
Thanks