keith_correa
Well-Known Member
If only Mr. P. J. Baxandall knew all of this, he would not have wasted his time developing his circuit. He would have just used wire of appropriate materials instead. 
Speaker cables - Bare copper vs. tinned copper
- Thread starter Fiftyfifty
- Start date
If only Mr. P. J. Baxandall knew all of this, he would not have wasted his time developing his circuit. He would have just used wire of appropriate materials instead.
If your comments are aimed at the Belden 8477 here are the specs:
The Tinned Copper discussion began in 2015 when Jeff Day blogged about his interaction with Shirokazu Yazaki. Yazaki had recommended the Western Electric 16 GA cable which is a Tinned Copper cable. The WE cables are hard to find and so Jeff Day got Duelund to make their now popular equivalent - the Duelund DCA16 GA. This is a faithful modern reproduction of the vintage WE cable.
Several folks here looked up other Tinned Copper cables and found that Belden still made a current production cable - the Belden 8471 (16 AWG). Some of us then experimented with the Belden 8477 which is the 12AWG version.
Tinned Copper has an organic sound that is pleasing to the ears.
Sharing this for those not aware of the background story and can read up on this at Jeff Day's blog over at Positive Feedback.
Regards
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keith_correa
Well-Known Member
Not directed to any particular cable in general. I find it disconcerting that cables are projected as "increasing bass" or "increasing highs". Cables and their geometry can only take away or not, and not add. What would be appropriate would be for people who perceive differences to say that "in comparison with my previously used cable...". THAT, I can understand.
Cables as such obviously don't do such things - they are "perceived" to do so.
If you do a direct comparison between the Belden 8471 and 8477 there is a noticeable difference in the low end.
The thicker gauge of the 8477 (12 AWG) offers lower resistance than the 8471 (16 AWG) = higher current at LF.
The 8471 by design attenuates the LF giving the impression of being more fast or precise.
The 8477 in comparison seems to offer more low end.
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keith_correa
Well-Known Member
It's never so simple. Lower resistance is of course better [the output factor changes across varying impedance], but at what length of cable will this matter? At a point, this is so miniscule across varying impedance that it becomes inaudible. I haven't done the math for the 8477 vs the 8471 but I will when I remember.
Very true. A cable cannot give anything to the sound at a but every cable will take way something since the perfect cable is no cable
Hence if comparing cables , one will either take away something More OR something Less. eg having tighter bass does not mean it has added bass since even if it cuts off more of the harmonics, it will seem that the bass is tighter but in reality it is leaner and less rich.
This may make also result in the highs or mids being leaner and sharper and then folks fall into trap of blaming components and upgrading to get the setup right with the above cable and hence get the component choice wrong
OTOH the main reason why the bass might have been wooly would have been the speaker position itself ..have been burnt a lot by this in the past
+1
ankitbhargava
Well-Known Member
I feel really intimidated by this discussion for 2 reasons - I am not into Music but only into Movies, secondly .. I have been using a very basic DAC (sold by HifiMart) 14 AWG for years and have never got serious about how much difference in Sound Quality Speaker Cables would make for someone whose setup is only for Movies and that too 95% content consumed from online streaming services.
A comment on this from the super experts would be a great help
A comment on this from the super experts would be a great help
I was headed to the forum to ask opinions about Canare 4S11 and Mogami 3082/3103/4 as speaker cables when I came across this. I'm currently using 1505F for IC (since I had good results for phono) and Lyrita enameled solid copper wire for speakers.
The 8477/Euroclear/Klotz cables seem worth a try for the price but does anyone have experience or opinion on the Canare and/or Mogami?
For IC looks like I must try the tinned copper 8402 as the 1505F is bare copper. Other than btpa.com/EBay the other option seems to be to get the 8402 from PartsExpress or elsewhere and do DIY.
The 8477/Euroclear/Klotz cables seem worth a try for the price but does anyone have experience or opinion on the Canare and/or Mogami?
For IC looks like I must try the tinned copper 8402 as the 1505F is bare copper. Other than btpa.com/EBay the other option seems to be to get the 8402 from PartsExpress or elsewhere and do DIY.
yogitashwer
Member
it doesn't make nay difference current moves on outer surface, i found both equally gud in sounding.
I feel really intimidated by this discussion for 2 reasons - I am not into Music but only into Movies, secondly .. I have been using a very basic DAC (sold by HifiMart) 14 AWG for years and have never got serious about how much difference in Sound Quality Speaker Cables would make for someone whose setup is only for Movies and that too 95% content consumed from online streaming services.
A comment on this from the super experts would be a great help
Looking up this thread after a long time so missed this ...
Good sound applies to whatever may be your source - be it movies or streaming services.
Your setup will always benefit from whatever "voicing" you want to have for your sound.
Try out the cables mentioned - they are not expensive and hear the sound for yourself.
The subject of this thread is tinned copper for which some cables have already been mentioned.
Should not cost you more than Rs 1.5k - Rs 2.0k to try out.
Let me know if you need any suggestions if you are interested.
Regards
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ankitbhargava
Well-Known Member
Thank you Nikhil
Coincidently, I received Murthy's Cables today only for my front stage and I am going to do some testing tomorrow.
I’ve not paid much attention to speaker cables for the last few years as I was on a Naim setup and was just using their cables. Even after I moved on from Naim, I was just using a DAC occ cable. all this changed a couple of months back when I borrowed a pair of WSS silver coated copper cables to try out. The difference in resolution was very noticeable. This caught me by surprise! However, there was a certain lack of warmth I felt relative to the DAC cables
This prompted some more cable experiments. I ordered some Belden 2477 and Euroclear 12awg cable and also borrowed a pair of Mogami 2804 speaker cables from FM Magma. The Belden seemed close to the WSS I had tried and didn’t have the lack of warmth issue (at least to the same extent). The Mogami was a step forward in resolution and helped in bringing out the naturalness of the system (Accuphase, Harbeth). After that i lost enthusiasm for further cable experiments and just decided to keep the Mogami.
The Euroclear experiment still pending but will have to wait. I also have some Klotz cables I need to revisit. The Belden will be put to use with my second set of speakers in the meantime
This prompted some more cable experiments. I ordered some Belden 2477 and Euroclear 12awg cable and also borrowed a pair of Mogami 2804 speaker cables from FM Magma. The Belden seemed close to the WSS I had tried and didn’t have the lack of warmth issue (at least to the same extent). The Mogami was a step forward in resolution and helped in bringing out the naturalness of the system (Accuphase, Harbeth). After that i lost enthusiasm for further cable experiments and just decided to keep the Mogami.
The Euroclear experiment still pending but will have to wait. I also have some Klotz cables I need to revisit. The Belden will be put to use with my second set of speakers in the meantime
Do try the Klotz. After some burn in it is so so sweet.
Yeah. Klotz start bright and mellow down. The opposite with tinned copper, especially 8477.
Go for 12awg in both iterations
I now biwire with Klotz 12awg for bass and 16awg for mids/treble. Bare wire, no bananas
IME too much sweet sounding or airy setup mask micro-detail and so tinned copper is a no for me. The Belden 8447 cable being twisted pair has little bit more capacitance as measured by me. If you are using less than 5 feet then it's ok. I used Belden 8447 for two weeks and later switched back to my solid copper wire which had much lower capacitance.
Hari can you clarify the cable you had in your setup?
There is no Belden cable with the 8447 code. Did you mean the Belden 9497 or 8477?
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I think it is typo. It must be 8477 only. Anyhow, capacitance hardly makes much difference to speaker cables and more so for low level cables.
Maybe I might have swapped numbers, can't remember clearly. Purchased from theaudiocrafts
Wrong. There is loss in high frequency and distortions in HF by increased cable capacitance. Anyways I don't intend to start a debate on this.
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