Spec Obfuscation (Even by reputed companies) - A Real Worry?

[VRavichandar]

Sony has given decent Audiophile gear in the past, nothing great currently.

Their noise cancelling headphones are highly rated still

Do not know if this receiver (Sony STR-DN1080) even made it to the Indian market. I did not hear one - so cannot comment about its performance, but it was highly rated by some hifi reviewers.

Sony STR-DN1080 review

What Hi-Fi? Awards 2020 winner. The STR-DN1080 is still a force to be reckoned with

www.whathifi.com

 

[jai1611]

sony has brains.. rest all brands sell their stuff to make money and fool ppl.. only sony does proper research and makes products for posh mindset people who like good designs, highend stuff. Their slim dslr cameras still beat mundane canon colors.

We request all to write out emails to sony to produce 1800 watt wireless well designed home theatre atmos system in 1 to 1.5 lak instead of producing lowend cheap soundbars.. that way we can save innocent ppl to not get trapped into cheap tcl, denon,marantz,hisense,polk type cheap brands. Our Only hope is sony in audio,video.

All worship at the altar of your lord and saviour Sony

No idea about their home theater stuff. Their cameras are just about ok - designed by people who don't shoot in real life. Canon / Nikon and Fuji do a better job of usability. Sony does better at specs.

 

[Barun7]

Being a fan of Sony is not a sin. Even I love Sony products. I still use the last model of Xperia available in India(Xperia R1).
Problem is when someone berates other brands unabashedly and with unacceptable language. Someone liking a particular product doesn't give him/her absolute liberty to look down upon other's choices.
Look how most of the attention has been grabbed by someone in the last few days! Impact of negative publicity has wider reach than that of positive publicity.
This is the only audiophile forum in India. This is not a Facebook/Whatsapp group where you can get away with 'almost' anything. Noobs like me have learnt(and will continue to learn) many things here just by going through the numerous threads. Imagine what will be the reaction of a guest browser just by the way a few messages have been posted! I am afraid if this trend gets momentum, senior members might decide to contribute less here. Saying from my experience with one of the biggest biking forums in India(where I am am kind of a veteran) where a certain member used to suggest Pulsar 200 in almost every biking recommendation. No matter if the requirements were for a 110cc scooter or a 500cc mid ranger. Just because he owned a Pulsar 200, he thought he had the rights to berate every other bike in the world. Things got uglier and ultimately he was banned. But many senior members never came back!

Apologies in advance if I am wrong in my observations.

 

[Nitin K]

Sony does make good TV's and decent headphones and cameras. No harm in being a Sony fan.
But from what it looks like it is best to ignore his brand bashing comments. His posts are attention seeking and evaluating other people's reaction to his comments.

 

[raghupb]

In terms of market, Sony is more of a media company these days.
The 80s-90s were their heydays of AV gear.
The walkman, the trinitron, etc were good stuff, no doubt.
In TVs ever since Plasma and LED took over they dropped the ball.

But then saying Sony 9200W is the pinnacle of R&D, well .... what can one say.
Maybe the R&D was, how to put irrelevant stuff in specs and present it to 100 focus groups.

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[sandeeprawat]

I hope this doesn't dissuade me from buying PS5 in future. I am a Xbox fan though but PlayStation are good too

 

[ssf]

All the discussions on brands and fanboys got me thinking. Now that is not recommended as it causes tremendous strain on my system.

I went from Sony to Quad/Marantz and to some better quad or so I was told.

Covid lockdown took my Marantz away from me along with most of my other electronics.

Right now am listening to Spotify on my Quad 12L2 from my gaming PC to my TV to my Topping TP60. Just to keep our dear FM happy, I would like to think that the DAC on the Sony is the very best there is.

But, am enjoying the music coming out of the laid back quads and the puny TP 60.

So in my dazed stupor I asked myself, why am I enjoying this very mediocre system so much.

Granted, looking at music through colored glasses is one of the best upgrades possible, nonetheless, I heard this voice in my head telling me that the music system that I am listening to now is not distracting me from listening to music by drawing my attention to the Bass or lack of it or to the treble or the unwanted sounds boxes make or distortions from listening too loud with under powered systems. If I close my eyes, I might not be able to tell where my speakers are. Now, to a large extent the colored glasses might be responsible for it but nonetheless.

So I have come to the informed conclusion that all you guys spending lakhs on your two channel music, well let me tell you, you are wasting your money. All you need is a good two channel system which might not be as good as a few sony systems advocated in the forum, but a pre-requisite is to see it through colored glasses. Take my advise and save money. I don't know any of any high end brands. If I did, I would have used the choicest expletives for it.

Cheers to peace and good humor in the forum.

 

[Jupiter]

Sony Tvs still considered best among people when i decide to buy samsung tv they told me get only sony Tv according to them there is no better tv brand then sony

 

[raghupb]

Sony Tvs still considered best among people when i decide to buy samsung tv they told me get only sony Tv according to them there is no better tv brand then sony

Sony TV PQ is quite good actually. But the UI is a whole different story.
For a premium brand, they really need to work on UI/UX.
In terms of audio gear, Sony is a non-contender in the serious game today.

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[square_wave]

1200W is like order magnitude fudge.
This is worrisome.
Cheers,
Raghu

If we look hard enough, maybe there is an asterisk and fine print that say " In your dreams "

 

[square_wave]

Here's a Sony 2000 $ receiver spec.This is the ES series from Sony. If you drive all 9 channels, the 130 + 130 watts power gets distributed to all the channels.That means you get about 30 watts per channel ( all channels driven). That is a receiver weighing 37lb. So, they know how to provide the right spec for the right people. This is pretty much the same for all receivers in this price category. Devices like HTIBs need a different marketing approach. They are just doing what everyone else is doing. Don't waste your time discussing this.

Sony Premium Home Entertainment - STR-ZA5000ES

www.sonypremiumhome.com

Amplifier
Number of Amp. Channels	9ch
Number of Decodable Channels	11.1ch
Power Output	130 W + 130 W (8 ohms, 1 kHz, THD 0.9%)

 

[ssf]

Yeah but he is spamming every thread even today for a new member who requested to guide him with a HT for 50k budget he is advising Denon, marantz Polk is shit and to go for Sony.

Yes, that could be a problem.

But other than that, it's best not to take offence to posts on forums or let it upset you. Strangers making strange statements. Chalk it down to your daily quota of entertainment.

 

[raghupb]

130 W + 130 W (8 ohms, 1 kHz, THD 0.9%)

My point is what use is this spec other than page fill.
Not like we will play a 1Khz tone all the time.
The idea of a spec is to put something meaningful there.

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[Love4sound]

Yes, that could be a problem.

But other than that, it's best not to take offence to posts on forums or let it upset you. Strangers making strange statements. Chalk it down to your daily quota of entertainment.

Yeah I don’t feel offended or take it personally. But spreading such hate and wrong information in all threads should be looked upon

 

[Deleted member 15865]

Moderators, thanks!

 

[square_wave]

130 W + 130 W (8 ohms, 1 kHz, THD 0.9%)

My point is what use is this spec other than page fill.
Not like we will play a 1Khz tone all the time.
The idea of a spec is to put something meaningful there.

Cheers,
Raghu

This is an industry wide problem. Look at this Bryston here.

4B³ – Bryston

bryston.com

Power Output (per channel):

300W @ 8Ω | 500W @ 4Ω

You know it will be proper 300w, only because Bryston is a well regarded audiophile brand. There is no other indication about what that " 300w" actually means.

Also, keep in mind that only the watts info does not mean anything in the real world. There are other factors that determines how the amp will behave when the speaker presents difficult loads while it traverse through the frequency spectrum as well.

Industry standards have been vague in this area.

 

[ssf]

I think that some basic information on the specifications should be standardized. Eg. power output at 8 ohms, 20hz to 20khz frequency, distortion figures, power output at 4 ohms, total power consumed etc. This will give the users a chance to compare specs if at all they rely on it to make a decision.

 

[square_wave]

If you see the Naim statement amp here, you see that " 9kw burst into 1 ohm ". That is the peak power. 9000 watts ! Most brands use that " burst into 1 ohm with a 1khz sine wave " as the power output miss-information. so, you cannot sue them. The actual watts is 746w into 8 ohms.

Naim Statement | Mono Power Amplifier | Naim NAP S1 | Naim Audio

Naim Audio Statement, the world's best amplifier crafted for pure musical performance. Discover more about this dual power amplifier online.

www.naimaudio.com

NAP S1
Audio Inputs

Analogue Input

1 x XLR (each)

Audio Outputs

Audio Outputs	Binding posts for spade & 4mm banana
Power Output	746W into 8 ohms, 1450W into 4 ohms, 9kW burst power into 1 ohm

 

[arj]

130 W + 130 W (8 ohms, 1 kHz, THD 0.9%)

My point is what use is this spec other than page fill.
Not like we will play a 1Khz tone all the time.
The idea of a spec is to put something meaningful there.

Cheers,
Raghu

Very true raghupb , since people look for specs , manufacturers define specs at their own convenience, the above is indicatory for that brand at best. Hence if you have a choice between 2 of the same brand, you can choose it based on your speaker...but if buying blind you have no idea on how this will do if the speaker falls to 3-4 ohms !

Additionally it also tells you nothing on how it will perform at 50 Hz although some manufacturers do publish their frequency curves..but even then it gives you no idea about how it recreates harmonics. In fact I have had experiences where a < 20W amp has played louder and more powerfully than a 50 W at a lower volume setting

Hence to me personally , Amp and speaker measurements are Indicatory at best !

 

[square_wave]

in fact I have had experiences where a <20W amp has played louder and more powerfully than a 50 W at a lower volume setting
So to me personally Amp and speaker measurements are indicatory at best !

Same experience here as well. 18 watter sounds way bigger and authoritative than many 60 watts and above I have owned in the past.