Sub for KEF LS 50

[square_wave]

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I don't know what you are smoking. But if you keep smoking the same thing, you will surely smoke the speakers or amplifier very soon.

 

[LobsterB]

What i learnt and then experienced myself, the right way for a sub is not More Bass but Better bass

If you have heard Livingston Tylers "Grandmas Hands", you would know its an acapella ie no instruments, but with a Good sub or a decent Floorstander you can also hear a thump which comes due to him hitting his foot on a wooden box he is sitting on. This is part of the music and most bookshelves and some FS will not even let you hear it. but with a good sub you hear the rhythm

My favourite example is Eric Clapton "Unplugged" where most songs have a drum at around 25 hz (I have measured this) and this goes missing very often in systems and once you hear it you cannot hear the song without it.

In both of the above, its not about the thump impact, but the quality and texture of the same which makes is part of the music.

Hi,
I tried the above cited examples with the subwoofer on and with the subwoofer off along with the LS50 this weekend. The setup was a Odroid-C2 running LibreElec as source, connected over HDMI to Marantz SR-6012 doing the pre-amp/bass management duty feeding the L/R channels to Crown XLS1502 and sub-out (crossed-over at 80Hz) to Rythmik L12 subwoofer. The Eric Clapton "Unplugged" (specifically "Layla" and "Tears In Heaven") were flac files of 2013 Remaster and "Grandmas Hands" was from Spotify Premium (directly played from Marantz 6012). I tried to compare Direct mode with no subwoofer out and L/R bypass mode with below 80Hz fed to L12 sub. So no audio processing of any sort on L/R channel output to LS50. In my rather small (7ft x 10ft) listening area couldn't find any day and night difference between the two. Btw, I am no basshead and very often keeps the bass output couple of notches down, so could be that I am not sensitive to much of the nuances in that part of the spectrum...

 

[Deleted member 38504]

Please listen to what the other members are saying. The ls50 are absolutely a superb speaker. Change your AVR and get a good integrated. Listen for a while. If u need more bass, sell the AVR and the ls50 and get something like a dali or Elac. They will give u enough bass. If still you need more, then buy a subwoofer to go with the bookshelves. The ls50 are near field or monitor speakers with excellent midrange and imaging.

Also, it would be nice to pen down your thoughts in ONE message instead of writing 5 messages one after the other like a watsapp chat every minute. We know u are excited! Congratulations and good luck with whatever u choose to do now!

 

[superczar]

Please listen to what the other members are saying. The ls50 are absolutely a superb speaker. Change your AVR and get a good integrated. Listen for a while. If u need more bass, sell the AVR and the ls50 and get something like a dali or Elac. They will give u enough bass. If still you need more, then buy a subwoofer to go with the bookshelves. The ls50 are near field or monitor speakers with excellent midrange and imaging.

Also, it would be nice to pen down your thoughts in ONE message instead of writing 5 messages one after the other like a watsapp chat every minute. We know u are excited! Congratulations and good luck with whatever u choose to do now!

I have a feeling moving to an integrated won't work for the OPs use case.
I could be wrong but his use-case may be very different than yours (or I or of the general lot you find here)

How ever when you r in a party mood or want to hear that one groovy song , it just doesn't give those thumps

I believe you want a lot more bass extension than what you are getting out of these. In other words, you are not getting enough beats & rhythm out of these.
If that is the case then have only one option.
Your receiver has a LFE out, If you add a decent subwoofer (nothing fancy - but do expect to spend at least 30K) and set your bass frequencies to go to the subwoofer instead

Long explanation - I believe you want music that you can feel (i.e. low frequency sounds which your body can actually feel as a drum goes thump) coupled with good reproduction of the vocals (mid range) and the high range treble
Your speakers are excellent for the latter two
The first one however is not what they are designed for - amplifier upgrades will improve the latter two but minimally impact the first
The only way you can get the first (i.e. low frequency) at the level you want is by adding a subwoofer - or replacing the LS50 with a full tower

 

[RAJUSH26]

Listened to all the peers here , many many thanks for all the guidance and pls continue to enlighten me on any blunders I may commit on my audio audessey.
Removed the Sony speakers and only connected the kefs.getting used to them and falling in love with them more and more.its kinda slowly showing why it's such a respected speaker.

 

[raghupb]

@RAJUSH26
You have a nice setup there. Bring the LS50s up to the edge of the platform.

They could do with a little more separation, but then you would need stands.
Even so, they will have asymmetrical back wall bounce off due to right glass door.
The manual says ideal separation from back wall to back of speaker should be 20".
Other wise use those foam bungs as necessary.

Hear them out for music; they do shine in that avatar.
They take a while to get used to as they are monitor speakers.
You may change your mind about the sub for now.

When upgrading, try to allocate funds for amp/AVR upgrade along with sub.

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[RAJUSH26]

@RAJUSH26
You have a nice setup there. Bring the LS50s up to the edge of the platform.

They could do with a little more separation, but then you would need stands.
Even so, they will have asymmetrical back wall bounce off due to right glass door.
The manual says ideal separation from back wall to back of speaker should be 20".
Other wise use those foam bungs as necessary.

Hear them out for music; they do shine in that avatar.
They take a while to get used to as they are monitor speakers.
You may change your mind about the sub for now.

When upgrading, try to allocate funds for amp/AVR upgrade along with sub.

Cheers,
Raghu

Thanks Raghu

 

[Shinto]

For Quality music , what you need here us

View attachment 36666

Listened to all the peers here , many many thanks for all the guidance and pls continue to enlighten me on any blunders I may commit on my audio audessey.
Removed the Sony speakers and only connected the kefs.getting used to them and falling in love with them more and more.its kinda slowly showing why it's such a respected speaker.

Please consider a Powerful Stereo Amplifier.
Please add a sub woofer if the room is of reasonable size.
Put the speakers on stands with space around them if at all possible.
This will change your music completely.

 

[Shinto]

Rajush, your set up looks quite pretty. But unfortunately, your speaker placement is not correct. LS 50 is rear ported, meaning, it needs space to breathe on the rear side. Leave at least 2.5 to 3 feet away from the wall to get the LS to work better. This maybe the reason you are not getting the required low end. My experience tell me that bookshelf speakers sound best when placed on a good bookshelf speaker stand. The sound changes a lot to the better side. Look wise, it may not be as neat as your present arrangement. But, here sound is what matters. And once again, bass is not everything. I would never suggest a sub. Its not worth the investment. But a good stereo amplifier is a must. As you said, if you are slowly falling in love with it, it will stay. Those which impress you straight away, will bore you quickly too.

It is not about bass.It is is about filling the lower octaves for a richer fuller sound with body.Vocals and Instruments sounds so much better with a properly integrated sub.Even floor standers sound lean in a reasonable sized room without the sub in my limited experience.

 

[iaudio]

Rajush26, congrats, the LS50's are excellent speakers. However, I do feel they need serious amplfication to make them shine.
The first time I heard these speakers was with a Marantz Integrated amplifier and with an AVR and I dismissed all the praise I heard about these speakers as hype/paid reviews. But later on, I had the chance to listen to the same with a lot of good ampifliers and sources,with the speakers well placed on stands. And I have to say, they are worth the hype, though they lack extension in the deep end.

 

[liverpool_for_life]

It is not about bass.It is is about filling the lower octaves for a richer fuller sound with body.Vocals and Instruments sounds so much better with a properly integrated sub.Even floor standers sound lean in a reasonable sized room without the sub in my limited experience.

All of which is right, but the poster you're addressing this to won't listen. Mostly because he hasn't experienced it himself. You're welcome to try to convince him though, when multiple others have tried. And failed

 

[RAJUSH26]

All of which is right, but the poster you're addressing this to won't listen. Mostly because he hasn't experienced it himself. You're welcome to try to convince him though, when multiple others have tried. And failed

Another small query for my PC build I need a RGB PC case
My mobo is a ATX size gigabyte aoros x470 Gaming wifi5
GPU is the gigabyte aoros RTX 2080
Pls advise friends .

 

[liverpool_for_life]

@RAJUSH26, you just quoted my post and wrote nothing yourself. Did you mean to?

 

[raghupb]

@preth30
Sub integration is definitely possible with bass management.
AVRs these days, even mass market, budget models, do a pretty fine job.
I agree that it is quite a challenge with IAs having full signal preouts (been there not figured out yet).
It has nothing to do with being a purist or otherwise.
With a sub (integrated properly into the system and room), one has the option of using it or not for music.
Call me nuts, but I like them humble tone/balance controls too. Options!!
This hobby is all about having as many options at hand and choosing when to use them.

@rajudhs
You will need a sub as you are looking to dual purpose LS50 for music and HT.
As I have mentioned earlier play with placement/position for now.
When planning an upgrade look at sub, AVR, stands, room treatment (get home minister approval on this one).
You have a good system now. With a few additions/changes it can be made into a great multipurpose rig.
Keep refining your rig at a pace that is defined by your needs, your means and your opportunities.

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[sound_cycle]

Properly integrated sub.......that is the biggest problem. We never get it integrated, forget 'properly'.

We ?

I've had no issues.

Ciao
GR

Sub integration is definitely possible with bass management.
<snip>
This hobby is all about having as many options at hand and choosing when to use them.

Which can be on the sub, no AVR needed.
And yes.
To options.
And open minds. I was absolutely set firmly against a sub in my rig, till I heard a well set up one.

Ciao
GR

 

[liverpool_for_life]

I've had no issues.

That may well be, but the really important question is: Are you 48 or older, baby?

 

[sound_cycle]

That may well be, but the really important question is: Are you 48 or older, baby?

When I was 48 I was anti sub. To the honorific, lost status well over half a century ago ...

Now I am trying to figure out if I can get one more in. Arrow makes the wiring part moot. I might. Pure greed though.

Dirac live standalone v2 is likely soon (weeks). Will make up my mind after that.

Ciao
GR

 

[raghupb]

Which can be on the sub, no AVR needed.
And yes.
To options.
And open minds. I was absolutely set firmly against a sub in my rig, till I heard a well set up one.

Ciao
GR

By your own admission, in your case open mindedness has led to open wallet too
But then you've got the rig you wanted; not like Bono singing "But I still haven't found what I'm looking for ...."
Cheers,
Raghu

 

[RAJUSH26]

A fellow member offered to sell a Rotel for 26k, is it good for the kef's.

 

[raghupb]

A fellow member offered to sell a Rotel for 26k, is it good for the kef's.

Hear it out with your speakers in your room if possible.
Is it a power amp or an integrated?
Cheers,
Raghu