Suggestions for my First Hifi setup

Hey @deeps007, what's the latest on your setup?
Got Indiq Audio Signature v2 delivered last week. These are big for a bookshelf 10W*13D*14H. I was a little busy with my cousin's wedding so didn't have time enough to listen to them. But the initial impression is good. I think i got what i was missing for music in R700s. Played them placing on TV unit as i don't have the stands ready yet and i am impressed by the clarity in music that they bring, even with an amp like Norge(92wpc). Highs and mids are pristine and bass is tight. Played all kinds of songs from A.R Rehman to Jagjit Singh to classical rock ,pop, jazz. Soundstage is impressive and they are able to fill up my listening space of 10*16 ft convincingly. I was not that confident about these when i ordered, as i thought it would not sound good in my room but i am pleasantly surprised. I can whole heartedly recommend these to anyone looking for a really good set of BS.
R700s on the other hand are rocking my movie shows and i am thoroughly enjoying them. Also, i tried the Indiqs as surround speakers and the result was outstanding. The movies like Mad Max Fury, Blade Runner 1949, Ready player One, Underground 6, Ford vs Ferrari came live in my room and i was engrossed in the surround sound effects and enjoyed every bit like a little kid :)
 
Got Indiq Audio Signature v2 delivered last week. These are big for a bookshelf 10W*13D*14H. I was a little busy with my cousin's wedding so didn't have time enough to listen to them. But the initial impression is good. I think i got what i was missing for music in R700s. Played them placing on TV unit as i don't have the stands ready yet and i am impressed by the clarity in music that they bring, even with an amp like Norge(92wpc). Highs and mids are pristine and bass is tight. Played all kinds of songs from A.R Rehman to Jagjit Singh to classical rock ,pop, jazz. Soundstage is impressive and they are able to fill up my listening space of 10*16 ft convincingly. I was not that confident about these when i ordered, as i thought it would not sound good in my room but i am pleasantly surprised. I can whole heartedly recommend these to anyone looking for a really good set of BS.
R700s on the other hand are rocking my movie shows and i am thoroughly enjoying them. Also, i tried the Indiqs as surround speakers and the result was outstanding. The movies like Mad Max Fury, Blade Runner 1949, Ready player One, Underground 6, Ford vs Ferrari came live in my room and i was engrossed in the surround sound effects and enjoyed every bit like a little kid :)
Welcome to Signature V2 owner's club :). I can very well relate to your impressions
 
Hi Friends,

Hope all are doing fine!
Just observed this thing about calibration. I am not sure I am right/on point but I found that after using the audyssey calibration equipment provided with Denon x4700h, my speakers didn't sound natural. They sounded suppressed. I reset the AVR settings and my speakers came alive again. I thought to myself that If that is calibration, am better off, without it.
Am I doing something wrong, keep in mind that I am a newbie, or is it how the calibration works?
 
I am not sure if anyone has the full HT setup in Delhi NCR.
Call up Amit from IndiqAudio and ask if he can connect with any previous customer.
Hi. I just came across your post. There is a person in delhi who has a whole 5.1 channel setup of platinum achal. Although sub is svr if I'm not mistaken. R u still interested in auditioning them?.
 
Please explain to me how.
Lot physics here. Actually pure physics here. This is my layman understanding. But a person who deals with speaker design will explain it better. You need to understand resonance. Resonance occurs widely in nature, and is exploited in many devices. It is the mechanism by which virtually all sinusoidal waves and vibrations are generated. Many sounds we hear, such as when hard objects of metal, glass, or wood are struck, are caused by brief resonant vibrations in the object. By varying the size of the speaker cone, we are actually exploiting resonance naturally.

1. Everything that can vibrate has something known as resonant frequency. Large objects have low resonant frequency. Small objects have higher resonant frequency. Take an example of a very long rope with both ends tied to a wall. Hit the rope with your finger and let go and it will vibrate slowly and will vibrate for very long. Compare this with a rope of very small length tied at two ends. Hit it with a finger and let go. It will vibrate fast and die fast. Now if you got this, look at any guitar or string instrument and pluck the string. The longest wire will make a sound of lower frequency and will produce sound for longer compared to the shortest string. Take example of a large drum (which gives bass) or cello. The sound from these will be at lower frequency and will last longer. Take example of percussion instruments, sound of keys jingling, the frequency will be high but will die very fast. Take a large gong and it it with a hammer, the sound will be at lower frequency and will last long. Now we just discussed things which produce sound.

2. Now speakers come with various sizes. If you see the woofer has much larger diameter. They are meant to produce sound of lower frequency. That's the reason we have to make it large. They are not meant to be fast and they cannot move fast. That makes them excellent to reproduce low frequency sound and since they move slowly, they will reproduce accurately the decay of low frequency producing objects like the drum, bass guitar, etc. If you have a fast moving woofer (which is physically impossible because of large size), they will ruin the sound and decay. So in reality you don't actually require fast bass. It is a misnomer actually. Similarly you don't need a tweeter to move slowly (which is again physically impossible because of small size). A slow moving tweeter will ruin reproduction of high frequency sound.

3. Coming back to point 1, it is physically impossible to make a long rope move up and down fast enough and also impossibel to make a short rope move up and down slowly. If you want to suddenly stop the larger rope fast, you will require lot of power to do that. You will litterally have to use both your hands and hold the rope with your fists to stop that. This is also important for large suspension bridge where you need to prevent it from vibrating. If it starts vibrating up and down it is physically impossible to stop it and the bridge will collapse.

4. From point 3, we can conclude that woofer cannot reproduce high frequency and tweeter cannot reproduce low frequency. But the output of the amplifer has all frequencies mixed in the two wires. So what do we do. We use a cross over to separate the low frequency and feed that to the woofer and high frequency to the tweeter. You can in fact make it better by make a speaker 3 way or 4 way with drivers of different sizes. The largest for low frequency, the middle ones for mid and the smallest diameter driver for high frequency.

5. Now sometimes you want the low frequency decay to be controlled. Like you hit a drum with the stick once and place your stretched palm on the drum skin to stop the decay. Now if this is fed to your loud speaker, the speaker will keep vibrating and will not reproduce the sudden stop of the decay. Just like you used the palm on the drum skin to stop the bass suddenly, the amplifer should be able to damp the sound suddenly when there is no low frequency component coming in the signal. Here is where the damping factor comes in.

6. In loudspeaker systems, the value of the damping factor between a particular loudspeaker and a particular amplifier describes the ability of the amplifier to control undesirable movement of the speaker cone near the resonant frequency of the speaker system. It is usually used in the context of low-frequency driver behavior, and especially so in the case of electrodynamic drivers, which use a magnetic motor to generate the forces which move the diaphragm. So when we talk about fast bass, it is the amplifier that is responsible. It should be powerful enough and with a good damping factor. It is not the job of the woofer to be fast, that is the job of the amp. A woofer that is fast will be very very very bad emasculated woofer.

7. Another important thing is that the sound is moving at the same speed whether it is bass or non-bass. They are all moving at the speed of around 343 m/s. So nothing is moving slower or faster than the song.

It is the same reason with voices. Men have longer vocal chords and hence they cannot sing like Lata. Women have shorter vocal chords and it is impossible for them to sing like this https://www.classicfm.com/artists/tim-storms/lowest-vocal-note-world-record/
Lions cannot chirp or tweet and birds cannot growl. A woofer shouldn't be fast enough to tweet and a tweeter shouldn't be slow enough to woof.
 
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Lot physics here. Actually pure physics here. This is my layman understanding. But a person who deals with speaker design will explain it better. You need to understand resonance. Resonance occurs widely in nature, and is exploited in many devices. It is the mechanism by which virtually all sinusoidal waves and vibrations are generated. Many sounds we hear, such as when hard objects of metal, glass, or wood are struck, are caused by brief resonant vibrations in the object. By varying the size of the speaker cone, we are actually exploiting resonance naturally.

1. Everything that can vibrate has something known as resonant frequency. Large objects have low resonant frequency. Small objects have higher resonant frequency. Take an example of a very long rope with both ends tied to a wall. Hit the rope with your finger and let go and it will vibrate slowly and will vibrate for very long. Compare this with a rope of very small length tied at two ends. Hit it with a finger and let go. It will vibrate fast and die fast. Now if you got this, look at any guitar or string instrument and pluck the string. The longest wire will make a sound of lower frequency and will produce sound for longer compared to the shortest string. Take example of a large drum (which gives bass) or cello. The sound from these will be at lower frequency and will last longer. Take example of percussion instruments, sound of keys jingling, the frequency will be high but will die very fast. Take a large gong and it it with a hammer, the sound will be at lower frequency and will last long. Now we just discussed things which produce sound.

2. Now speakers come with various sizes. If you see the woofer has much larger diameter. They are meant to produce sound of lower frequency. That's the reason we have to make it large. They are not meant to be fast and they cannot move fast. That makes them excellent to reproduce low frequency sound and since they move slowly, they will reproduce accurately the decay of low frequency producing objects like the drum, bass guitar, etc. If you have a fast moving woofer (which is physically impossible because of large size), they will ruin the sound and decay. So in reality you don't actually require fast bass. It is a misnomer actually. Similarly you don't need a tweeter to move slowly (which is again physically impossible because of small size). A slow moving tweeter will ruin reproduction of high frequency sound.

3. Coming back to point 1, it is physically impossible to make a long rope move up and down fast enough and also impossibel to make a short rope move up and down slowly. If you want to suddenly stop the larger rope fast, you will require lot of power to do that. You will litterally have to use both your hands and hold the rope with your fists to stop that. This is also important for large suspension bridge where you need to prevent it from vibrating. If it starts vibrating up and down it is physically impossible to stop it and the bridge will collapse.

4. From point 3, we can conclude that woofer cannot reproduce high frequency and tweeter cannot reproduce low frequency. But the output of the amplifer has all frequencies mixed in the two wires. So what do we do. We use a cross over to separate the low frequency and feed that to the woofer and high frequency to the tweeter. You can in fact make it better by make a speaker 3 way or 4 way with drivers of different sizes. The largest for low frequency, the middle ones for mid and the smallest diameter driver for high frequency.

5. Now sometimes you want the low frequency decay to be controlled. Like you hit a drum with the stick once and place your stretched palm on the drum skin to stop the decay. Now if this is fed to your loud speaker, the speaker will keep vibrating and will not reproduce the sudden stop of the decay. Just like you used the palm on the drum skin to stop the bass suddenly, the amplifer should be able to damp the sound suddenly when there is no low frequency component coming in the signal. Here is where the damping factor comes in.

6. In loudspeaker systems, the value of the damping factor between a particular loudspeaker and a particular amplifier describes the ability of the amplifier to control undesirable movement of the speaker cone near the resonant frequency of the speaker system. It is usually used in the context of low-frequency driver behavior, and especially so in the case of electrodynamic drivers, which use a magnetic motor to generate the forces which move the diaphragm. So when we talk about fast bass, it is the amplifier that is responsible. It should be powerful enough and with a good damping factor. It is not the job of the woofer to be fast, that is the job of the amp. A woofer that is fast will be very very very bad emasculated woofer.

7. Another important thing is that the sound is moving at the same speed whether it is bass or non-bass. They are all moving at the speed of around 343 m/s. So nothing is moving slower or faster than the song.

It is the same reason with voices. Men have longer vocal chords and hence they cannot sing like Lata. Women have shorter vocal chords and it is impossible for them to sing like this https://www.classicfm.com/artists/tim-storms/lowest-vocal-note-world-record/
Lions cannot chirp or tweet and birds cannot growl. A woofer shouldn't be fast enough to tweet and a tweeter shouldn't be slow enough to woof.
Your reply is very deep and make sense. Still,
In my opinion, fast woofers are how quickly it can adopt the given signal from the rest position and how quickly it can react to the damping force of the amp. Thus it is very much agile.
But, how does a woofer plays faster than the song? That is the question here.
 
Your reply is very deep and make sense. Still,
In my opinion, fast woofers are how quickly it can adopt the given signal from the rest position and how quickly it can react to the damping force of the amp. Thus it is very much agile.
If a woofer can adapt very quickly, it means it has no inertia and momentum and it will not be able to preserve the decay. It will be a bad driver for low frequency. How quickly a woofer can be moved depends on the amplifier. A good amp with lot of power will be able to quickly move the speaker.
But, how does a woofer plays faster than the song? That is the question here.
It cannot. A woofer is just a coil over a cylindrical object around a magnet. The amp supplies the coil voltage and the coil moves. It is analogous to a long rope and your finger is like the amp.
 
Your reply is very deep and make sense. Still,
In my opinion, fast woofers are how quickly it can adopt the given signal from the rest position and how quickly it can react to the damping force of the amp. Thus it is very much agile.
But, how does a woofer plays faster than the song? That is the question here.
Damping by an amp is for controlling the woofer. if you have a light diaphragm on the woofer then the damping is usually low and a high damping will make the sound lifeless as you will not get the full harmonic richness. Heavy woofers heed higher damping ( electrical) else it will not be able to control the woofers and you will get flabby bass.

Hence need to choose the amp with the right Damping for you speaker. adding to what @mbhangui said in the end it is transmission of energy where the electrical energy is converted to kinetic and then to sound hence there is no way that the woofer will be faster.
the reason people call music fast can be due to other facts
1. Relative comparison. when one is used to a speaker which is lagging due to mismatch (Like Damping) then hearing a better matched speaker might make it sound relatively fast
2. my suspicion of the more common reason : centre of gravity of the sound shifting to the higher frequency spectrum where the bass may get cut off and the higher harmonics sound more prominent than the lower. this gives a snap but at the expense of bass.
 
If a woofer can adapt very quickly, it means it has no inertia and momentum and it will not be able to preserve the decay. It will be a bad driver for low frequency. How quickly a woofer can be moved depends on the amplifier. A good amp with lot of power will be able to quickly move the speaker.
Just a doubt. Shouldn't the decay and harmonics of an instrument present in the audio signal than the woofer taking charge of it?
 
If a woofer can adapt very quickly, it means it has no inertia and momentum and it will not be able to preserve the decay. It will be a bad driver for low frequency. How quickly a woofer can be moved depends on the amplifier. A good amp with lot of power will be able to quickly move the speaker.

It cannot. A woofer is just a coil over a cylindrical object around a magnet. The amp supplies the coil voltage and the coil moves. It is analogous to a long rope and your finger is like the amp.
Damping by an amp is for controlling the woofer. if you have a light diaphragm on the woofer then the damping is usually low and a high damping will make the sound lifeless as you will not get the full harmonic richness. Heavy woofers heed higher damping ( electrical) else it will not be able to control the woofers and you will get flabby bass.

Hence need to choose the amp with the right Damping for you speaker. adding to what @mbhangui said in the end it is transmission of energy where the electrical energy is converted to kinetic and then to sound hence there is no way that the woofer will be faster.
the reason people call music fast can be due to other facts
1. Relative comparison. when one is used to a speaker which is lagging due to mismatch (Like Damping) then hearing a better matched speaker might make it sound relatively fast
2. my suspicion of the more common reason : centre of gravity of the sound shifting to the higher frequency spectrum where the bass may get cut off and the higher harmonics sound more prominent than the lower. this gives a snap but at the expense of bass.
Yes. I understand that the woofer cannot move faster than the song. It is impossible.
My query is,
what is Fast bass? It plays faster than the song?
Extended highs? Adds highs that aren’t recorded in the track? Kindly elucidate the meek.

can this type of question be appropriate in a forum where we seek knowledge? I find it plain insulting to the person to whom the reply was supposed to be. I rest my case here.
 
Just a doubt. Shouldn't the decay and harmonics of an instrument present in the audio signal than the woofer taking charge of it?
It is indeed present in the signal. The woofer is a passive device (and even the tweeter). It is never in charge of it. It has to mimic exactly the electrical signal being supplied by the amplifier. For LF since the changes are happening slowly, the woofer cone shouldn't be springing back to its original position immediately after changing it's position, thereby making it unsuitable for LF. In contrast the tweeter cone is very tight and will have a tendency to immediately spring back to its original position, thereby making it very suitable to reproduce high frequency sounds.

In school days if you remember tuning forks. The shorter tuning forks are suitable for higher frequency. The longer tuning forks are suitable for lower frequency. The sampe principles apply to speaker drivers. Larger cones are suitable for lowre frequency and smaller for higher frequency.
 
Damping by an amp is for controlling the woofer. if you have a light diaphragm on the woofer then the damping is usually low and a high damping will make the sound lifeless as you will not get the full harmonic richness. Heavy woofers heed higher damping ( electrical) else it will not be able to control the woofers and you will get flabby bass.

It is indeed present in the signal. The woofer is a passive device (and even the tweeter). It is never in charge of it. It has to mimic exactly the electrical signal being supplied by the amplifier. For LF since the changes are happening slowly, the woofer cone shouldn't be springing back to its original position after changing it's position. In contrast the tweeter cone is very tight and will have a tendency to immediately spring back to its original position.
But will the signal allow it to spring back before tracing the waveform? Because springing back at its spring rate will only make the woofer reproduce a different frequency momentarily.
 
But will the signal allow it to spring back before tracing the waveform? Because springing back at its spring rate will only make the woofer reproduce a different frequency momentarily.
If the cone has to spring back immediately, it means the waveform is a high frequency component. The AMP will supply that in the two wires and that signal will go to the crossover which will divert all such high frequency waveform to the mid range or the tweeter. Such signals will not go to the woofer. Remember that woofer is not supposed to respond to such extremely quick movments in the midrange and higher

A low frequency waveform will always be having few cycles per second and that doesn't entail immediate spring back. You just have to visualize vibration of something natural in your mind. One example I gave was a ropes of different lengths tied at two ends.
 
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If the cone has to spring back immediately, it means the waveform is a high frequency component. The AMP will supply that in the two wires and that signal will go to the crossover which will divert all such high frequency waveform to the mid range or the tweeter. Such signals will not go to the woofer. Remember that woofer is not supposed to respond to such quick movments.

A low frequency waveform will always be having few cycles per second and that doesn't entail immediate spring back. You just have to visualize vibration of something natural in your mind. One example I gave was a ropes of different lengths tied at two ends.
Exactly. I misread your previous message.
 
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