SVS PB-1000 or B&W 610 Sub? Which one to match my setup?

[efernand1]

Hi

The AVR you are using has its limitations....so least you can do is set the Front speakers to Large......

The only way to hook the BIC sub is through the connection you have already made as the HR R380 has no pre out or even sub out......

Would advise to trade up your AVR when you can to a proper AVR.....keep an eye on the Classified Section of this site and OLX......

 

[pantpank]

Hi

The AVR you are using has its limitations....so least you can do is set the Front speakers to Large......

The only way to hook the BIC sub is through the connection you have already made as the HR R380 has no pre out or even sub out......

Would advise to trade up your AVR when you can to a proper AVR.....keep an eye on the Classified Section of this site and OLX......

Hello, thanks for the response!
I am planning to upgrade the avr in a couple of months and have zeroed in on Denon 2500h which has 95watts output 2 ch driven at 8 ohms. So apart from the feature of pre sub out and additional two channels (for atmos), will there be any improvement in sound quality from my current speakers set up ? By the end of the year i will be building up a dedicated ht room with some basic room acoustic. Size of the room will be 13*10*10 feet (l*b*h)

 

[efernand1]

Hi

Since you have time in hand before the update.....audition and review all models and brands within your budget.....if these Avrs are hooked with the same speakers at the dealers place ...better for you to hear and decide......

If more into music then Marantz
If more into movies then Denon / Pioneer ? Harman Kardon
If 50:50 balance then Yamaha

 

[sash]

You should experiment with subwoofer placement. It makes all the difference due to the location of peaks and nulls. See my experiments in an old thread:
https://www.hifivision.com/threads/what-is-your-subwoofer-placement.55945/
I would still suggest you try a sealed sub like the SB series. Each person is different in his bass taste - some like quantity but some like quality. Sealed subs are tighter but may not have that much shaking power. Over time, i have realized i like quality over quantity in my bass. This is especially true in small rooms

 

[Love4sound]

@efernand1 @elangoas and Ranjith. Is this a good setting?

 

[elangoas]

@efernand1 @elangoas and Ranjith. Is this a good setting?

It is a user preference.. Try, turning off one feature at a time but keeping Multi EQ XT = Reference (or) Flat and see if you like it.. Settle for whichever setting you like..

 

[efernand1]

@efernand1 @elangoas and Ranjith. Is this a good setting?

Hi

Multi EQ XT = Reference or Flat (I use Flat)
Dynamic EQ = On
Dynamic Volume = Off (I kept this off as it kills output volume..)
Reference Level offset = 5db (you can toggle between 0 or 5 or 10 or 15....see which one appeals to you).

Try this......one try with Multi EQ XT = Reference and then second try with Multi EQ TX = Flat

Use the same source content and also same volume levels.....as to draw an inference which works better......

 

[originalamit]

Have you tried switching phase? Play with 0 and 180. One will be diffuse one tight. I usually prefer diffuse. Use a movie with car racing engines and see if you get the engine hrrrrrrr sounds. That's where the crossover should be.

Are you using the lfe input or the direct RCA input? If it's the direct rca input don't set the receiver crossover on. As you'll be doubling the slope. Crossover should be at approx 80 or 100.

The bnw may integrate getter as its from the same series. It sounds like your sub isn't placed correctly. Place it in a corner to the side of the TV at a 45 degree angle. Then slowly move it out till the bass sounds balanced.

Use the car engine rrrrrrr sound to set the gain.
Some movies are recorded poorly. Try and setup using batman vs superman and you'll be going crazy as the sound track is almost impossible to integrate at the crossover point. Try transformers part with Mark Wahlberg and watch the car scenes.

Lastly check your cable. I once had a cable that didn't make a tight connection with the rca connector on the sub and when I applied light pressure suddenly the sound would get loud. So play a movie and just rotate the rca plugs behind the sub and receiver.

The technical team did come and make a bunch of changes in the system.The positioning stayed almost the same for the LCR and Sub. The tuning however improved the sound of the sub a lot and the booming went away but it still lacked punch. I found this review to accurately describe the subwoofer performance when tuned optimally :

"What the SVS PB-1000 can’t do is punch you in the chest. The room will shake, the floor will vibrate, and loose items may fall off the shelves. You’ll know when a shotgun blast goes off and a car crashes, and you’ll be sucked in. But you won’t get that physical beating that 15” and 18” woofers can deliver. SVS can work some wonders with a 10” driver and a single port, but the laws of physics can only be bent, not broken."

What i am looking for is even in mid volume, the bass should have a punch. So the PB1000 has gone back. I am considering if i should get 2 sealed subs instead like the SB1000 or the 610? Is this the right approach for my desired effect? I auditioned the PB2000 as well today.. the sub is very good but just too huge! At that price, i can get 2 B&W 610 or PB1000 subs

Do advise

Thanks

Amit

 

[Love4sound]

The technical team did come and make a bunch of changes in the system.The positioning stayed almost the same for the LCR and Sub. The tuning however improved the sound of the sub a lot and the booming went away but it still lacked punch. I found this review to accurately describe the subwoofer performance when tuned optimally :

"What the SVS PB-1000 can’t do is punch you in the chest. The room will shake, the floor will vibrate, and loose items may fall off the shelves. You’ll know when a shotgun blast goes off and a car crashes, and you’ll be sucked in. But you won’t get that physical beating that 15” and 18” woofers can deliver. SVS can work some wonders with a 10” driver and a single port, but the laws of physics can only be bent, not broken."

What i am looking for is even in mid volume, the bass should have a punch. So the PB1000 has gone back. I am considering if i should get 2 sealed subs instead like the SB1000 or the 610? Is this the right approach for my desired effect? I auditioned the PB2000 as well today.. the sub is very good but just too huge! At that price, i can get 2 B&W 610 subs.

Do advise

Thanks

Amit

Have u auditioned the B&W 610 sub? If u liked it y not try a dual? Dual sub will give u a smooth and even bass. I have auditioned so many subwoofers from the range of 15k to 1lakh. I enjoyed the most of a bic f12 in a dual set up. It was so powerful, even and smooth. And the demo room was also huge. F12 is not even a high end sub.

 

[efernand1]

What i am looking for is even in mid volume, the bass should have a punch. So the PB1000 has gone back. I am considering if i should get 2 sealed subs instead like the SB1000 or the 610? Is this the right approach for my desired effect? I auditioned the PB2000 as well today.. the sub is very good but just too huge! At that price, i can get 2 B&W 610 subs.

Do advise

Thanks

Amit

Hi....

You should audition all available brands with the same content and at same levels to draw an inference of which brand sub works better for you.....

I would not look at brands but performance first and then size and after sales service........look at BIC PL 200 or B&W 610 or Polk HTS 12 or XTZ or Sunfire.....there are many dealers in your location...dont rush audition carefully with an open mind the same source content.....decide wisely

Before going dual.....always see first if one sub is providing you the expected performance you want.,..no point getting two subs and then regretting....the dual config will smooth out bass for the room and also provide more bass volume.......

 

[audiopro]

The technical team did come and make a bunch of changes in the system.The positioning stayed almost the same for the LCR and Sub. The tuning however improved the sound of the sub a lot and the booming went away but it still lacked punch. I found this review to accurately describe the subwoofer performance when tuned optimally :

"What the SVS PB-1000 can’t do is punch you in the chest. The room will shake, the floor will vibrate, and loose items may fall off the shelves. You’ll know when a shotgun blast goes off and a car crashes, and you’ll be sucked in. But you won’t get that physical beating that 15” and 18” woofers can deliver. SVS can work some wonders with a 10” driver and a single port, but the laws of physics can only be bent, not broken."

What i am looking for is even in mid volume, the bass should have a punch. So the PB1000 has gone back. I am considering if i should get 2 sealed subs instead like the SB1000 or the 610? Is this the right approach for my desired effect? I auditioned the PB2000 as well today.. the sub is very good but just too huge! At that price, i can get 2 B&W 610 or PB1000 subs

Do advise

Thanks

Amit

What you are asking for is compression of dynamic range. See, when you are watching a movie there is something called dynamics which is the difference between the loud and soft sounds. Movies that have a large dynamic range will typically not constantly deliver a bass line unless you turn the sub up. If you do that it will over power you when the movie gets loud. Do not use batman, superman and other marvel or DC movies. They are recorded with a large dynamic range and special effects. You don't know what superman taking off sounds like nor do you know what batmans car sounds like. Use a movie like say transformers age of extinction where there are multiple scenes with the Camero car chases. Listen to the Camero engine growl and use that as a bass line to set the sub. Then listen to a movie with a lot of vocals like a simple love or true story. You should end up enjoying the movie due to the emotional content provided as a background score by the sub. Then decide. Some subs hit hard while some are presence subs. You seldom can have both. If the sub hits hard you will find it very dry and lacking emotion. Just like a PA system. Hard dry bass. zero emotion. If it has too much presence you will feel it doesn't hit you hard. If it booms then either it wrongly designed, is underpowered, gain is set too high, positioning wrong or its just an el cheapy sub. Lastly, nothing can replace a 15 or 18 incher in terms of hitting hard. The only sub that may deliver almost everything you are looking for at your price points is the old horse Jamo D600. Try and chase them to let you audition it at your home. It was the only sub that sounded like a proper movie theater when I heard it long ago. Jamo has kept it in production for almost 15 years. Their other products are questionable but if they have not cut corners in quality over the years then this sub maybe your ticket. Avoid klipsch. If you don't have the budget save a bit and buy. Buy once and enjoy for ten years rather than be disturbed everytime. From my experience higher end rel and velodyne and maybe this Jamo are the type of subs you are looking for.

 

[originalamit]

What you are asking for is compression of dynamic range. See, when you are watching a movie there is something called dynamics which is the difference between the loud and soft sounds. Movies that have a large dynamic range will typically not constantly deliver a bass line unless you turn the sub up. If you do that it will over power you when the movie gets loud. Do not use batman, superman and other marvel or DC movies. They are recorded with a large dynamic range and special effects. You don't know what superman taking off sounds like nor do you know what batmans car sounds like. Use a movie like say transformers age of extinction where there are multiple scenes with the Camero car chases. Listen to the Camero engine growl and use that as a bass line to set the sub. Then listen to a movie with a lot of vocals like a simple love or true story. You should end up enjoying the movie due to the emotional content provided as a background score by the sub. Then decide. Some subs hit hard while some are presence subs. You seldom can have both. If the sub hits hard you will find it very dry and lacking emotion. Just like a PA system. Hard dry bass. zero emotion. If it has too much presence you will feel it doesn't hit you hard. If it booms then either it wrongly designed, is underpowered, gain is set too high, positioning wrong or its just an el cheapy sub. Lastly, nothing can replace a 15 or 18 incher in terms of hitting hard. The only sub that may deliver almost everything you are looking for at your price points is the old horse Jamo D600. Try and chase them to let you audition it at your home. It was the only sub that sounded like a proper movie theater when I heard it long ago. Jamo has kept it in production for almost 15 years. Their other products are questionable but if they have not cut corners in quality over the years then this sub maybe your ticket. Avoid klipsch. If you don't have the budget save a bit and buy. Buy once and enjoy for ten years rather than be disturbed everytime. From my experience higher end rel and velodyne and maybe this Jamo are the type of subs you are looking for.

Thanks... yes I am ok to up the budget to a lakh or so... will check out the subs you gave mentioned As well. Thanks for clearing my thoughts

 

[audiopro]

Thanks... yes I am ok to up the budget to a lakh or so... will check out the subs you gave mentioned As well. Thanks for clearing my thoughts

Regarding dual subs. Two poor subs will not sound as good as one properly designed sub. Start out by identifying one good sub. Add one more later on if you feel the need and budget allows. Invest a little on corner foam bass traps. They are cheap on Amazon. Lastly, position the BnW properly as well as they are in charge of delivering the mid bass to a great extent. Too close to the wall and they will boom too far and you'll loose bass definition. Lastly a home theater has to engulf you in sound. You have to position the speakers to get a soundfield. You really have to play with toe in, distance between the two front, center angle, rear direct vs diffused sound, and then individual level controls from the amp, etc to achieve a uniform seamless soundfield. That is when you will truly enjoy your setup. Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[RajithKumar]

Thanks... yes I am ok to up the budget to a lakh or so... will check out the subs you gave mentioned As well. Thanks for clearing my thoughts

Adding to that,if ur in plan for purchase of new sub and If you have good budget , you can also check out MJ acoustics acoustic reference 100 mkIII sub . It was one of the reference sub I have heard so far . The bass authority and punch is extraordinary.Its one of the serious sub which needs to be considered .
Its not huge in size compared to other sub .But as per spec it goes down upto 13hz(yeah its seriously very low one).I had a demo of the sub at AV lounge Chennai .Do check it once if u r insterested.

 

[efernand1]

Adding to that,if ur in plan for purchase of new sub and If you have good budget , you can also check out MJ acoustics acoustic reference 100 mkIII sub . It was one of the reference sub I have heard so far . The bass authority and punch is extraordinary.Its one of the serious sub which needs to be considered .
Its not huge in size compared to other sub .But as per spec it goes down upto 13hz(yeah its seriously very low one).I had a demo of the sub at AV lounge Chennai .Do check it once if u r insterested.

Not to contradict your views on the MJ Acoustics sub....one of my cousins had the same sub and wanted to sell the same ...I got it to my place to use and yes i do agree it can go low....but the amp power is seriously low for a 200 sq ft area....if u increase volume on sub to 70% it starts rumbling bad.....this is my take.....I would stay away as there is no support for this sub in India as far as I knw unless they have started recently......

 

[RajithKumar]

Not to contradict your views on the MJ Acoustics sub....one of my cousins had the same sub and wanted to sell the same ...I got it to my place to use and yes i do agree it can go low....but the amp power is seriously low for a 200 sq ft area....if u increase volume on sub to 70% it starts rumbling bad.....this is my take.....I would stay away as there is no support for this sub in India as far as I knw unless they have started recently......

Hmm ...Quite Surprised to hear it!!!.

 

[efernand1]

The best sub so far what i have used was Boston Acoustics ASW650 which was a decent 10 inch front firing type with port.loved the compact size...after that was the BIC H100ii and now its the PL 200 (version I) the other brands are good but way too expensive ...given the amount of hours one practically will use it given the busy schedules we have in life

 

[Akshit2111]

@orignalamit :try xtz! Not experienced any boominess with it so far. Quite pleased with its performance. Played flac files at low volume could feel bass though not chesty but sweet bass. Port tuning options along with 3 eq options this sub can be made to sound the way you like. I took 2 auditions for pb1000. In one setup since the room was acoustically overdone i did not get that oomph. In the second setup it was pitted against sb2000 where it felt quite boomy (comparatively). Sealed subs do provide tight bass but they say deeper bass is addictive! In small rooms sealed may be equal to ported if not better (this is what i heard ) but whenever i close both the ports on sub i dont enjoy it that much.
I have xtz 10.17

 

[originalamit]

I auditioned the following today
1) Jamo d600... it was a good sub... good punch.. MRP 1,35,000/- I think
2) bowers wilkins PV1D - overpriced and not that powerful. MRP 1,85,000/-

Tomorrow plan to audition the b and w 610, 610XP and the SVS PB2000

Sigh Bangalore traffic is a killer... can’t reach so many places to audition :-(

I am auditioning with blu rays of
1) dark knight
2) dark knight rises
3) Oblivion
4) Rush

 

[efernand1]

I auditioned the following today
1) Jamo d600... it was a good sub... good punch.. MRP 1,35,000/- I think
2) bowers wilkins PV1D - overpriced and not that powerful. MRP 1,85,000/-

Tomorrow plan to audition the b and w 610, 610XP and the SVS PB2000

Sigh Bangalore traffic is a killer... can’t reach so many places to audition :-(

I am auditioning with blu rays of
1) dark knight
2) dark knight rises
3) Oblivion
4) Rush

Use the same Blu Ray scenes / Movies to audition so that you can then make up your mind which sub to go for